YVR & Sea Island Developments Discussion II

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

A bit too long for the Max 8, but definitely a possibility with the A321XLRs coming online soon.

I'm really excited to see those enter service and having the possibility of AC starting some interesting routes.

I wonder if they are capable of flying YVR-BOG or would the elevation at BOG make it difficult to do so without some sort of restriction. I also wonder if we could see them flown to CTS as it was mentioned as a possible destination and I don't think flights to CTS would warrant a widebody.

[trofirhen]

With the substantial, and ever-growing Latin American population population here in Vancouver, one might hope for a route - just ONE to start - into South America (Bogota, Lima, Sao Paulo) .... but no.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Just curious, to what are you referring?

I have read a number of times over the years from that Mall guy saying they were close to starting the third expansion.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

I have read a number of times over the years from that Mall guy saying they were close to starting the third expansion.

Thanks very much. Sounds like a company hype-man plying his trade. I will look forward to seeing plans for the future expansion after phase 3.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Thanks very much. Sounds like a company hype-man plying his trade. I will look forward to seeing plans for the future expansion after phase 3.

“We're working through permitting and some leasing right now, and we'll have an opening date announcement of Phase 3 in the next couple of months,” said Robert Thurlow, general manager of what is largely a mall with tenants that sell off-price merchandise.

https://www.biv.com/news/retail-manufact...milestone-plans-third-expansion-10918019

I think this is the final phase.. for the current land. Of course there is lots of room to expand into the parking area.

Ron.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

Well if GOL can fly BSB-MCO with high density 7M8, then YVR-PTY should work as it is about 40 miles shorter, the plane sits 20 less, and the airport is at lower elevation?

Not sure if G3 is taking a payload hit on that route though...

I'd be astonished if they aren't taking a payload hit on the route. Block time is 8h25 minutes. Gol on BSB-MCO is more the exception than the rule. They do it because demand from Brazil to Florida is extremely strong, so they make a pretty penny, even with the restrictions. Can the same be said of YVR-PTY in a Max 8? Not sure.

I think Icelandair is a good example of what the limit of a Max 8 is, with full pax/bags. And it's around ~3,100nm.

KEF-YVR 3,080nm is a Max 8 route.
KEF-SEA 3,148nm, is an A321LR route.

It will be interesting to watch WS on PTY-YYC (3,043nm). Block time is ~7h55 minutes.

PTY-YVR is 3,251nm. That would be ~8h30, similar to BSB-MCO, if not longer, due to the jetstream, something GOL doesn't have to contend with as much with flights near the equator. Subtropical jetstreams aren't as strong as the polar ones over North America.

Now, can it be done? Maybe, but there will definately be restrictions. Can the A321LR or XLR do it more comfortably without restrictions? Absolutely !

There is a reason CM's longest route out of PTY is only 2,941nm (MVD).

[Johnny Aussie]

It is nice to get more sun flights but long haul intl much more exciting/important

YVR’s latest foreign carrier set to depart Seoul this evening!

https://imgur.com/a/zUzfCoa

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

It is nice to get more sun flights but long haul intl much more exciting/important

YVR’s latest foreign carrier set to depart Seoul this evening!

https://imgur.com/a/zUzfCoa

YVR-LIR is blocked at 7h16 min. The return flight is blocked at 8hrs !

These are, by definition, long haul international flights.

You might have meant intercontinental flights. And there, generally, I agree. However, YVR is massively underserved to Central America. Any flights they get to that region now are important, even if they're only 1x weekly seasonal flights.

As far as I'm concerned, getting a new destination in Central America should be more important for YVR than getting a new Asian carrier with service to a destination that YVR already has. (ex. Zipair)

Not saying the latter isn't important. It is, as more airlines help stimulate the market, it adds competition and therefore lowers prices. Just saying that new destinations in unserved regions are even more important.

P.S Johnny Aussie probably has me blocked, so someone else should relay him this info.

[Johnny Aussie]

TW 531 is on its way - running about 30 mins late

So 4 flights currently in the air ICN-YVR

The other three - AC and 2 x KE are actually running early!

T’way becomes YVR’s 26th long haul foreign carrier, 27th international carrier (not including US airlines) and 33rd including US carriers. Not bad at all!

Broken down by region:

Asia 15
Europe 8
South Pacific 3

USA 6
Mexico 1

Also - ICN becomes one of only a few long-haul cities with more than two carriers on it

ICN - AC KE TW
TYO (NRT/HND) - AC JL NH ZG
FRA - AC DE LH
HKG - AC CX HX

Perhaps TPE will be next?

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

YVR-LIR is blocked at 7h16 min. The return flight is blocked at 8hrs !

These are, by definition, long haul international flights.

You might have meant intercontinental flights. And there, generally, I agree. However, YVR is massively underserved to Central America. Any flights they get to that region now are important, even if they're only 1x weekly seasonal flights.

As far as I'm concerned, getting a new destination in Central America should be more important for YVR than getting a new Asian carrier with service to a destination that YVR already has. (ex. Zipair)

Not saying the latter isn't important. It is, as more airlines help stimulate the market, it adds competition and therefore lowers prices. Just saying that new destinations in unserved regions are even more important.

P.S Johnny Aussie probably has me blocked, so someone else should relay him this info.

Well IMO any new flight/route is equally important, regardless of whether it's intercontinental, long-haul, domestic or transborder. One being better than the other, or diminishing the importance of domestic or sun flights, is the result of some people's personal preferences where they feel like intercontinental flights are more exciting I suppose.

[Johnny Aussie]

^ like I said it’s great to have new sun destinations for sun seekers etc.
But (my opinion of course) is intercontinental routes enhance a city’s global reach. Also the sheer competition by having many international carriers just gives way more options.
I don’t think you could equate a new route to say Dawson Creek would be as important as a new route to Melbourne. Of course that would be more exciting… maybe not for everybody though

Just keep us up to date with those unused AC long haul frequencies! Hopefully we know something soon.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

^ like I said it’s great to have new sun destinations for sun seekers etc.
But (my opinion of course) is intercontinental routes enhance a city’s global reach. Also the sheer competition by having many international carriers just gives way more options.
I don’t think you could equate a new route to say Dawson Creek would be as important as a new route to Melbourne. Of course that would be more exciting… maybe not for everybody though

Just keep us up to date with those unused AC long haul frequencies! Hopefully we know something soon.

I appreciate your statement, esp' about MEL. And while it's a fact that Vancouver, as a Pacific Rim city, is more likely to accrue more Asia- Pacific routes, I'd love to see more European routes and maybe even something to South America. (The city has a sizeable Latin American population now), but something like Rome (top of the list for Europe now, IMO) or Athens or Lisbon would be out of this wolrd. Weak possibility, perhaps, yes, but worth dreaming for.

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I appreciate your statement, esp' about MEL. And while it's a fact that Vancouver, as a Pacific Rim city, is more likely to accrue more Asia- Pacific routes, I'd love to see more European routes and maybe even something to South America. (The city has a sizeable Latin American population now), but something like Rome (top of the list for Europe now, IMO) or Athens or Lisbon would be out of this wolrd. Weak possibility, perhaps, yes, but worth dreaming for.

As much as I like to see further expansion into the Asia Pacific/Oceania region, I would love to see further expansion into Europe with flights to Rome, Barcelona/Madrid, and Lisbon as you mentioned. Unfortunately with fleet constraint, I don't think we'll be seeing much expansion until next year.

With Air Canada getting a bunch of A321XLR's and 787'10's over the next few years, I'm hoping that would allow freed up 787-9's and A330's to be used for network expansions out of YVR.

I feel like the only way YVR can get those flights to South America would be with those freed up 787-9's and A330's.

[Johnny Aussie]

Here is YVR’s official news item

https://news.yvr.ca/yvr-celebrates-inaugural-tway-flight-to-seoul/

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

As much as I like to see further expansion into the Asia Pacific/Oceania region, I would love to see further expansion into Europe with flights to Rome, Barcelona/Madrid, and Lisbon as you mentioned. Unfortunately with fleet constraint, I don't think we'll be seeing much expansion until next year.

With Air Canada getting a bunch of A321XLR's and 787'10's over the next few years, I'm hoping that would allow freed up 787-9's and A330's to be used for network expansions out of YVR.

I feel like the only way YVR can get those flights to South America would be with those freed up 787-9's and A330's.

Playing with a Circle mapper, it is fascinating the further east you end up in South America, the distance penalty for stopping in Toronto drops quite a lot.

Santiago has a 13.5% penalty (comparable to Barcelona, lower the Rome), but Sao Paulo only has a 4.4% penalty.

The real 'solution' is Mexico City having enough capacity and network (at a single airport) to be a reliable hub.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

A bit too long for the Max 8, but definitely a possibility with the A321XLRs coming online soon.

Highly doubt we're going to see many, if any, XLRs at YVR. It's mission is just so perfect for Eastern NA to secondary Europe it would be weird to base any out of YVR. It opens up very little from YVR aside from maybe PTY, CTS, BOG or maybe something even weirder like HRB, NGO, or some random pacific island.

Technically they could use it on YVR-Europe like go daily on DUB or start CPH or EDI, but given that AC cant be bothered to fly to huge points like FCO, CDG or BCN I highly doubt we'll see them add anything to Europe. They seem perfectly content to funnel those PAX east or just lose them to YYC/SEA.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Perhaps TPE will be next?

I'd be shocked if Starlux didn't take a run at Vancouver soon.

I'm also waiting to see when someone (AC or VN) jumps into YVR-Vietnam. It seems like a no-brainer given the huge Vietnamese population in western Canada and the growth in Vietnam's economic importance.

[owenf]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I'd be shocked if Starlux didn't take a run at Vancouver soon.

I'm also waiting to see when someone (AC or VN) jumps into YVR-Vietnam. It seems like a no-brainer given the huge Vietnamese population in western Canada and the growth in Vietnam's economic importance.

The canada-taiwan bilateral has to open up for Starlux to enter. I would love to hear some news about this, Taipei seems to be a market that can absorb more capacity.

And as for vietnam, I really do hope VN takes a shot at YVR-SGN, it would be lovely to have another foreign tail here at YVR.

South America just seems challenging as AC again seems more than content to funnel thru YYZ/YUL, and Europe seems to remain status quo for the most part unfortunately. Would be great to see FCO/BCN/EDI but doesn't seem likely.

[owenf]

Furthermore, AC and ITA sign a codeshare agreement...could this mean FCO-YVR on ITA with AC codesharing in S26?? time will tell...

https://www.aircanada.com/media/air-cana...ffc=b4c45b35-0e43-48f4-98c6-1e5e721c59c5

[SpongeG]

some Tway video

• Video Link

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by owenf

Furthermore, AC and ITA sign a codeshare agreement...could this mean FCO-YVR on ITA with AC codesharing in S26?? time will tell...

https://www.aircanada.com/media/air-cana...ffc=b4c45b35-0e43-48f4-98c6-1e5e721c59c5

Upon reading that Air Canada statement you linked, it appears to me that ITA flights to Italy all come and go out of YYZ. // I wonder if there's a possibility for a YVR><FCO nonstop as well. It was unclear. It
seems I am reiterating the question you posed, too. /// Rome would be a great jumping off point for a lot of Mediterranean destinations.