Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Didn't realize this project was so far along and the 202/97th Ave segment is scheduled to begin construction in 2027. Similarly, Loop 303 (Van Buren to MC85) which will connect to SR30, will "advertise for construction this summer."

https://azbex.com/budgets-funding/mag-meetings-detail-prop-479-freeway-life-cycle-plans/

It's disappointing the most critical phase of this construction isn't scheduled to go until last. It cannot become a true I-10 reliever until it connects to the Durango curve. Getting the 30 to connect the 202 to Dysart road by 2031 isn't nothing, but most of that traffic on the I-10 west in the afternoons generates in Phx, Scottsdale and Tempe and so the mini stack and tunnel will be a mess for at least another decade plus.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

It's unfortunate that AZ has such weird opinions about certain transportation items

I have seen polling in AZ that toll roads are a 20/80 issue. Even when you explain that the toll would be for a brand new road that doesn't exist and currently does not have funding, voters still don't approve of the road. Even if you say that the toll is temporary just to pay for it's construction. I don't know if it's a "we moved away from places with tolls" anxiety or what.

I think part of the anti-toll is folks saying "well so- and so part of town got a new freeway without a toll so I want the same treatment".

I think it would make total sense to make the north south Pinal freeway, the new 505, a toll road until it is complete.

I feel the same about roundabouts. They're super efficient and would be a huge reliever at many intersections but heaven forbid. The public hates them and all it takes for a weak-kneed city councilmember is to hear from 10 angry constituents for them to fold like a cheap suit.

I think it's a reasonable anxiety.

You give the state the pot of money to build a freeway and it's very much going to look at the same pot of money to maintain it, or use it as a toll on existing highways which is their nightmare. The tolls don't go away once instituted afaict, I'm unaware of a state actually rescinding the toll once construction is completed.

It just seems like a slippery slope. It's not like some hypothetical toll money would ever go to transit or other transportation related issues to look at the potential benefit. The state isn't even pragmatic enough to make it a strict libertarian "user fee" alternative.

[combusean]

I don't know how many people here ride the bus but I figured I'd share my experience with a long afternoon on transit I took from Scottsdale and Mayo to 16th and Thomas running a couple errands and finishing the day at barone there.

Part of this was to see how I could handle the heat, and honestly, I'm impressed by the bus shelters that Phoenix has built lately. Maybe I'm older and healthier than I was in my 20s or lived in CA too long but I would take 110 in Phoenix over 92 in San Jose any day, and the improved street furniture certainly makes the journey more tolerable anyways.

I quite liked the "smart fare" that Valley Metro has where it caps the fare on a daily/weekly/monthly basis depending on how much you ride. This is one of those things that is huge for equity and affordability and something I've only seen one other agency do, AC transit in the Oakland, CA area.

While I was traveling in the rush hour window, I never waited more than 10 minutes for a bus which was very nice despite taking 3 separate trips.

The app is a little weird and wasn't scanning on my last leg (it showed I paid anyways, so the operator eventually let me on), and I was quite frankly shocked by the number of homeless at each stop on Thomas Rd in Central Phoenix. This is a huge perception issue and I'm glad I'm not dependent on using these stops or their shade. Thomas Rd is significantly more run down and vacant than I remember and I'd wager that these issues are closely related.

Overall it was a decent experience and a much more reasonable alternative than I remember.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by combusean

I don't know how many people here ride the bus but I figured I'd share my experience with a long afternoon on transit I took from Scottsdale and Mayo to 16th and Thomas running a couple errands and finishing the day at barone there.

Part of this was to see how I could handle the heat, and honestly, I'm impressed by the bus shelters that Phoenix has built lately. Maybe I'm older and healthier than I was in my 20s or lived in CA too long but I would take 110 in Phoenix over 92 in San Jose any day, and the improved street furniture certainly makes the journey more tolerable anyways.

I quite liked the "smart fare" that Valley Metro has where it caps the fare on a daily/weekly/monthly basis depending on how much you ride. This is one of those things that is huge for equity and affordability and something I've only seen one other agency do, AC transit in the Oakland, CA area.

While I was traveling in the rush hour window, I never waited more than 10 minutes for a bus which was very nice despite taking 3 separate trips.

The app is a little weird and wasn't scanning on my last leg (it showed I paid anyways, so the operator eventually let me on), and I was quite frankly shocked by the number of homeless at each stop on Thomas Rd in Central Phoenix. This is a huge perception issue and I'm glad I'm not dependent on using these stops or their shade. Thomas Rd is significantly more run down and vacant than I remember and I'd wager that these issues are closely related.

Overall it was a decent experience and a much more reasonable alternative than I remember.

Fare capping is great. It allows the economy of a daily, weekly, or monthly pass without the commitment. That's good for people whose transit usage varies and for low-income passengers who can afford to pay a little every day but might not have the cash flow for an up front payment at the beginning of each month. I just wish Valley Metro would allow tap-to-pay at the farebox so that there would be no need to download a separate app and set up an account.

The bus shelters have definitely improved, but the best shelters are no good if they become campgrounds. Phoenix really needs to increase enforcement at bus stops throughout the city. As with so many aspects of vagrancy and loitering, this is not really a downtown problem. I'm more likely to see a bus stop misused as a campground at 44th St. & Thomas, for example, than at Central & Washington.

[combusean]

^ “Carceral urbanism” is often thrown around as an epithet to liberalism

After watching San Francisco fall to drug-infused progressive disasters I think Phoenix should more actively deal with concerns like this.

The “fentanyl fold” is real and seeing people on the bus experiencing that need to be met with more serious interventions.

[exit2lef]

Anyone who wants to report this can use this form:

https://phxatyourservice.dynamics365portals.us/phxcares/

There's even an option to indicate the location is a bus stop. While I'd like to see more active enforcement, this may be a case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by combusean

I don't know how many people here ride the bus but I figured I'd share my experience with a long afternoon on transit I took from Scottsdale and Mayo to 16th and Thomas running a couple errands and finishing the day at barone there.

Part of this was to see how I could handle the heat, and honestly, I'm impressed by the bus shelters that Phoenix has built lately. Maybe I'm older and healthier than I was in my 20s or lived in CA too long but I would take 110 in Phoenix over 92 in San Jose any day, and the improved street furniture certainly makes the journey more tolerable anyways.

I quite liked the "smart fare" that Valley Metro has where it caps the fare on a daily/weekly/monthly basis depending on how much you ride. This is one of those things that is huge for equity and affordability and something I've only seen one other agency do, AC transit in the Oakland, CA area.

While I was traveling in the rush hour window, I never waited more than 10 minutes for a bus which was very nice despite taking 3 separate trips.

The app is a little weird and wasn't scanning on my last leg (it showed I paid anyways, so the operator eventually let me on), and I was quite frankly shocked by the number of homeless at each stop on Thomas Rd in Central Phoenix. This is a huge perception issue and I'm glad I'm not dependent on using these stops or their shade. Thomas Rd is significantly more run down and vacant than I remember and I'd wager that these issues are closely related.

Overall it was a decent experience and a much more reasonable alternative than I remember.

I havent taken the city bus as a need since my freshman year of college 17 years ago. But back then it was god awful totally unreliable. lol glad its better.

[ChaseM]

It looks like the southbound ramp from the 101 to the 51 is finally getting a second lane and it's long overdue. During my weekly commute, I’ve seen an alarming number of rear-end collisions there. That area is a nightmare during rush hour, with drivers merging on from Cave Creek while others cut across from the 101 to the 51. It quickly turns into a chaotic zig-zag of sudden stops, going from 65 to 0 in seconds. It’s definitely been a major hazard for a while, so this upgrade is much needed. Construction is expected to begin sometime this summer or fall.

ADOT: Loop 101/State Route 51 Ramp Widening

[TllrSkyline-01]

Originally Posted by ChaseM

It looks like the southbound ramp from the 101 to the 51 is finally getting a second lane and it's long overdue. During my weekly commute, I’ve seen an alarming number of rear-end collisions there. That area is a nightmare during rush hour, with drivers merging on from Cave Creek while others cut across from the 101 to the 51. It quickly turns into a chaotic zig-zag of sudden stops, going from 65 to 0 in seconds. It’s definitely been a major hazard for a while, so this upgrade is much needed. Construction is expected to begin sometime this summer or fall.

ADOT: Loop 101/State Route 51 Ramp Widening

I missed that announcement. Thankful this is getting done...there are also delays on EB 101 back to Cave Creek on the weekends...this will help!

[builder03]

https://azbex.com/budgets-funding/mag-committee-info-details-upcoming-pavement-plans/

Glad to see some major arterials getting improvements.

Personally excited for the Broadway Rd project in Tempe, as the city is planning to expand all sidewalks to 8'. Walking/biking along this corridor currently isn't a very pleasant experience with the curb-tight 3' sidewalks.

Nice to see improvements including more than just repaving or road widening.

https://azmag.gov/portals/0/Transportation/TIP/2025/ARRP-Applications/TMP-26-ARRP-001.pdf

[combusean]

https://azdot.gov/news/phoenix-tucson-passenger-rail-study-moving-second-step

Phoenix-Tucson passenger rail study moving to second step
June 24, 2025
Federal Railroad Administration approves key documents

PHOENIX – The Arizona Department of Transportation‘s study of passenger rail between the Phoenix and Tucson areas is ready to take an important step forward.

The Federal Railroad Administration has approved ADOT’s submissions in the first step of the Corridor Identification and Development Program: a scope, schedule and budget for preparing a Service Development Plan that will outline key elements necessary for establishing passenger rail service. Work on the Service Development Plan can begin after approval of a federal grant, which is expected in the coming weeks.

“This is a big step forward for Arizona,” said Governor Katie Hobbs. “I am committed to creating a bright transportation future for our state that fosters economic growth, creates jobs and expands transit opportunities for working people and families.”

“We see passenger rail connecting the Phoenix and Tucson areas as an important addition to transportation options for Arizona,” said ADOT Director Jennifer Toth. “It holds the promise of more economic growth and employment while enhancing mobility for rural areas and families in communities between Phoenix and Tucson.”

Completing the Service Development Plan is expected to take two to three years. Among other things, this plan will:

Identify the number and location of stations along the route based on travel data analysis, technical feasibility, and access to jobs, schools and airports

Identify infrastructure improvements that will be needed, such as additional track or maintenance facilities

Forecast ridership and revenues, determine the number of trips and travel time, estimate capital and maintenance costs, and develop a plan for phasing in service

The proposed Phoenix-Tucson passenger rail corridor, which extends approximately 160 miles between Tucson and Buckeye, was selected in late 2023 for the Corridor Identification and Development Program.

The Federal Railroad Administration launched this program to guide the development of new and enhanced intercity rail services. Federal partners have advised that completing the steps required of participants may lead to selection preference for future funding opportunities.

ADOT’s approved budget to complete the Service Development Plan is $10.6 million. As part of the program, ADOT used a $500,000 federal grant to complete the first step in the Corridor Identification Program.

Completing the Service Development Plan will qualify ADOT for the third and final step of project development: completing a Tier 2 National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) engineering and environmental study. That step is expected to take two to three years and would come with a federal grant requiring a 20% state match.

As part of her commitment to enhance transportation safety while creating jobs and spurring economic growth, Governor Hobbs committed $3.5 million to support planning for passenger rail service between Phoenix and Tucson.

While no funding has been identified to establish passenger rail, this planning effort will explore potential funding options for construction and implementation. It will be up to policymakers to identify potential funding opportunities for the project implementation, including design, right-of-way costs and construction.

To guide the study of potential passenger rail service, ADOT established an Executive Leadership Team that includes the Governor’s Office, ADOT, and metropolitan planning organizations for Maricopa, Pima, and Pinal counties. Coordination with planning organizations on the Executive Leadership Team helps ensure that planning for passenger rail aligns with regional priorities and facilitates coordinated decision-making and advocacy.

To learn more about ADOT’s environmental study of potential passenger rail between the Phoenix and Tucson areas, please visit azdot.gov/AZRailStudy.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by combusean

https://azdot.gov/news/phoenix-tucson-passenger-rail-study-moving-second-step

Phoenix-Tucson passenger rail study moving to second step
June 24, 2025
Federal Railroad Administration approves key documents

Commuter trains are such a waste but I don't care I want them anyway because trains are CCOOL and they'll be useful someday when density is higher.

Bring on the commuter rail!

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Commuter trains are such a waste but I don't care I want them anyway because trains are CCOOL and they'll be useful someday when density is higher.

Bring on the commuter rail!

I'd use this line to go catch shows down in Tucson I wouldn't otherwise go see. Driving I-10 for a couple hours to catch a show and turn around and come back is a lot. If you don't have to drive and can chill on the train, why not?

(and yes, a lot of shows that I've been interested in of late skip PHX and hit Tucson - I don't understand why...lack of venues? Misunderstanding of the demographics of the state?)

I'd be for more extensive commuter rail in the valley too - so this is a great starting point I'd think. Just new lines around town will require some people to make sacrifices of their 'view' and other NIMBY things in order for it to happen (which means it likely won't).

[locolife]

Originally Posted by xymox

I'd use this line to go catch shows down in Tucson I wouldn't otherwise go see. Driving I-10 for a couple hours to catch a show and turn around and come back is a lot. If you don't have to drive and can chill on the train, why not?

(and yes, a lot of shows that I've been interested in of late skip PHX and hit Tucson - I don't understand why...lack of venues? Misunderstanding of the demographics of the state?)

I'd be for more extensive commuter rail in the valley too - so this is a great starting point I'd think. Just new lines around town will require some people to make sacrifices of their 'view' and other NIMBY things in order for it to happen (which means it likely won't).

Interesting on the shows, that's not a comment I've heard often on shows skipping PHX but going to Tucson. What ones come to mind? Just curious what I'm missing out on since I haven't really run into this much personally.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by locolife

Interesting on the shows, that's not a comment I've heard often on shows skipping PHX but going to Tucson. What ones come to mind? Just curious what I'm missing out on since I haven't really run into this much personally.

I've experienced this too. The Rialto Theater seems to get some good acts that don't stop in Phoenix. It may that with the two cities only 100 miles apart, most artists don't do gigs in both cities. If a better opportunity in terms of venue and/or promoter is available in Tucson as a tour passes through Arizona, that may tip the scale in favor of that city.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I've experienced this too. The Rialto Theater seems to get some good acts that don't stop in Phoenix. It may that with the two cities only 100 miles apart, most artists don't do gigs in both cities. If a better opportunity in terms of venue and/or promoter is available in Tucson as a tour passes through Arizona, that may tip the scale in favor of that city.

I'm still butt hurt that Depeche Mode skipped over Phoenix in 2023. I haven't seen them live since their Violator tour in Dallas in 1990.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by azliam

I'm still butt hurt that Depeche Mode skipped over Phoenix in 2023. I haven't seen them live since their Violator tour in Dallas in 1990.

I saw them in 1993 at Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum when they were touring in support of "Song of Faith and Devotion." I haven't kept up with them much since then. Do they play smaller venues now, or can they still fill arenas?

[azliam]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I saw them in 1993 at Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum when they were touring in support of "Song of Faith and Devotion." I haven't kept up with them much since then. Do they play smaller venues now, or can they still fill arenas?

They're still filling arenas. I'm not a huge fan of big concert crowds and had chosen not to attend concerts in many years, but pulled the trigger on seeing the Cure in Glendale and again with friends in Miami, so I really wanted to see DM again after all these years (especially since Andy Fletcher passed) since they too were touring. I held out hoping for a PHX date, but didn't wish to travel to see them, so I was really disappointed to hear they skipped over PHX, but still performed in smaller, closer places like Vegas, Salt Lake City. I kick myself for not going to see the Alarm when they performed at a smaller venue here in PHX - and now Mike Peters has passed.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by locolife

Interesting on the shows, that's not a comment I've heard often on shows skipping PHX but going to Tucson. What ones come to mind? Just curious what I'm missing out on since I haven't really run into this much personally.

The Rialto is a nice smaller venue in downtown Tucson. Back when I used to intern for Toby Amies at KRQ back in the early-mid 90's, we used to do a lot of promo stuff there and at Club (Hotel) Congress across the street. I got to meet Utah Saints and also attended the wrap party for The Quick and the Dead. Great memories.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by azliam

The Rialto is a nice smaller venue in downtown Tucson. Back when I used to intern for Toby Amies at KRQ back in the early-mid 90's, we used to do a lot of promo stuff there and at Club (Hotel) Congress across the street. I got to meet Utah Saints and also attended the wrap party for The Quick and the Dead. Great memories.

My god, the Utah Saints...haven't thought of them in ages...

As for shows that skip PHX and hit Tucson - they tend to be more alternative/electronic in nature. PHX still pulls (some) of the big EDM acts (but Royksopp did 2x shows in LA instead of one here - yet they did SLC?). Last year I went down to the Rialto to see Ministry with Front Line Assembly and Gary Numan (a hell of a show). There are other similar shows that wind up down there but not here.

Not sure what it is - but seems like 5M+ people here can draw enough people to fill a small venue for these acts - or even a decent sized one (i.e. Royksopp, Depeche Mode, etc). Maybe we don't have enough venues? I mean SLC is 2m people and drawing these acts...