Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Yes, that's true. I remember they started 10 minutes and it didn't work. They had to change to 12 minutes headways. They were struggling with riders. Due to economy crisis. Those people who don't have a money for ride.

There plenty of passengers, but the timing was unfortunate. Light rail operations started at the end of 2008, and the effects of the Great Recession on municipal budgets were felt soon after, leading to less frequent service and the decision to put advertising wraps on the trains, something that was not originally planned.

[Forrester1998]

Some updates on the Streetcar Rio East-Dobson Extension (REDE): The Locally Preferred Alternative (LPA) adoption process is nearly complete. This began w/ the LPA adoption by the Tempe and Mesa city councils back in December, and was followed by approval from the Valley Metro Rail Board in February and a gauntlet of 4 different commissions of the Maricopa Association of Governments (MAG) throughout March and April. This process will come to its conclusion on April 23rd w/ adoption of the LPAs by the MAG Regional Council. Below I have attached a link to the meeting lage which contains the agenda packet. MAG will also post a YouTube video of the meeting but this item will likely be adopted by consent, so if you want to watch the presentation about the REDE LPA you could watch the videos for the March Transit Committee or Transportation Review Committee from March.

https://azmag.gov/Event/49473

The LPA adoption was never in doubt but this is an important step because once the LPA is adopted the project can begin the Preliminary Engineering/Environmental Review phase, which is the last phase before the big one (Design and Construction), and as a reminder Valley Metro has received a significant chunk of the funding for this phase. Based on the Valley Metro REDE extension page, they intend to roll right into the PE/ER phase as soon as they LPA is adopted, with a plan to finish this phase in Winter of 2027 (usually, "winter" refers to the beginning of the calendar year rather than the end in this context). This is ambitious but there seems to be some momentum. Here's the link to the latest REDE fact sheet:

https://vulcan-production.nyc3.cdn.digit...nalysis/20250414_red_factsheet-q2-25.pdf

REDE has been listed as a "phase 2" project in the MAG 2050 plan, meaning the planned opening date is in the range 2031-2035. This would seem correct if they are finishing the PE/ER phase in 2027. We can compare the possible Design and Construction timeline to the South-Central extension, which will end up taking about 6 years. REDE is slightly shorter (4.4 miles vs 5.5 miles for South-Central), REDE will probably be somewhat less disruptive to local businesses (it does pass by Tempe Marketplace but theres very little street fronting business along the REDE route which was absolutely not the case for South-Central) and we also ~probably~ won't get a Covid level event as an interruption *knock on wood*. I can see a 2031-2035 opening as a realistic timeline.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Forrester1998

I can see a 2031-2035 opening as a realistic timeline.

This assumes approval by the Mesa City Council. With anti-transit Mayor Mark Freeman now in office, do you think that's likely to happen?

[Forrester1998]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

This assumes approval by the Mesa City Council. With anti-transit Mayor Mark Freeman now in office, do you think that's likely to happen?

That's an obstacle but I think a few things to consider on this:

1) Mesa has a Council-Manager system so the mayor is essentially a glorified city council person when it comes to approvals, Freeman doesn't have veto power or anything.

2) Despite fiery rhetoric there is still more civility and practicality to local politics than federal or state. It shouldn't be underestimated that councils will often defer to the member from the district in question on development topics, and the local members are supportive of the extension. Also when it comes down to it, most local governments will not turn down hundreds of millions of dollars from the federal government (especially when this money doesn't just build the rail it contributes to utility and roadway infrastructure improvements that the city may not otherwise have money for).

This isn't to say it will be easy but a NIMBY mayor isn't an end all for something like this.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Forrester1998

That's an obstacle but I think a few things to consider on this:

1) Mesa has a Council-Manager system so the mayor is essentially a glorified city council person when it comes to approvals, Freeman doesn't have veto power or anything.

2) Despite fiery rhetoric there is still more civility and practicality to local politics than federal or state. It shouldn't be underestimated that councils will often defer to the member from the district in question on development topics, and the local members are supportive of the extension. Also when it comes down to it, most local governments will not turn down hundreds of millions of dollars from the federal government (especially when this money doesn't just build the rail it contributes to utility and roadway infrastructure improvements that the city may not otherwise have money for).

This isn't to say it will be easy but a NIMBY mayor isn't an end all for something like this.

I wish I could share your optimism, but in the current political environment, the federal funding mentioned in your second point is far from guaranteed. Combine that with Freeman's opposition, and I could see this project not happening. I would love to be wrong about this.

[Forrester1998]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I wish I could share your optimism, but in the current political environment, the federal funding mentioned in your second point is far from guaranteed. Combine that with Freeman's opposition, and I could see this project not happening. I would love to be wrong about this.

I think that the federal funding issue actually won't be as much as an obstacle as Freeman. The project won't need to tap in to federal funding again for at least a couple years, and political winds change very quickly + it doesn't take much too much effort to get funding. Not to get too much into federal politics on this forum (and I will definitely not get dragged into unrelated political discussion), for example it's very easy to imagine Dems taking back the US House in 2026, and if they do then it's easy to imagine Greg Stanton (who has a decent amount of seniority now) getting money directed towards this project, and it's actually fairly unusual for there to be significant opposition to project specific funding like that in Congress. So there's definitely ways to get the money in the near future.

As for Freeman, I'm not super familiar with him and I don't really know how much of an anti-transit zealot he is. I will say there have been a few recent instances of Phoenix area mayors being uncooperative with the rest of their council and having it not end well for them (this was true both for Peterson in Gilbert and Ortega in Scottsdale). My hope here would be that he opts to not end his career by fighting tooth and nail with his fellow council members, but of course he may do just that. If he truly does make himself a roadblock, a few years delay isn't too bad in the grand scheme of the transit system.

[combusean]

The FTA's Capital Investment Grants are cut by 2/3rds in this budget... there's a fighting chance this would rank highly enough to still get some funding given how popular the existing streetcar is.

[Obadno]

Not a surprise for anyone Im sure but planning has begun for enhancements to the SR 74 are starting.

Given the likelihood for the entire area between Wickenburg and surprise all the way across north Peoria and Rio Vista up to Anthem/New River to experience massive growth in the coming 20 years, this is going to be needed. Likely to become a whole highway in its own right.

Members of the public are encouraged to participate in a virtual public scoping meeting and provide input on the SR 74 Corridor Study.

The Maricopa Association of Governments is evaluating the 30-mile stretch of the SR 74 Corridor between Interstate 17 and US 60/Grand Avenue to develop a plan for the corridor. The goal of the study is to enhance mobility and accessibility within the SR 74 Corridor by identifying future near-term and long-range plans.

MAG invites you to participate in the virtual public scoping meeting to learn more about the study and provide feedback. Your comments will be used to help develop corridor infrastructure improvements for SR 74.

Details:

Wednesday, May 21, 2025 | 5:30 p.m.;
Virtual Meeting Link (Zoom): bit.ly/MAGSR74;
Meeting/Webinar ID: 958 7156 1864;
Passcode: MAGSR74 or 3338697;
Join by Phone: 1-408-638-0968.
For more information:

Email: [email protected];
Visit the project website: azmag.gov/SR74Study;
USPS Mail to: Attn: SR 74 Corridor Study, 302 N. First Ave., Suite 200, Phoenix, AZ 85003.

https://azbex.com/planning-development/p...eeting-on-state-route-74-corridor-study/

[Forrester1998]

So I think most of us were aware that the South-Central light rail extension opened today, but what I didn't realize until this week was that Valley Metro is increasing its rail frequency starting today as well. Light Rail lead times dropping from 15 minutes to 12 minutes, Streetcar lead times also dropping from 20 to 15 minutes, in both cases these new lead times are in effect from opening until 7:00 PM (I think frequencies after 7:00 PM are unchanged). Definitely an important update, obviously still a ways from where we would want to be eventually (maybe 8 minute lead times on the busiest sections?) but good to come out of the 15 minute lead time slump that seems to plague a lot of big city light rail systems.

https://www.valleymetro.org/news/2025/06...n-light-rail-and-streetcar-begins-june-7

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Forrester1998

So I think most of us were aware that the South-Central light rail extension opened today, but what I didn't realize until this week was that Valley Metro is increasing its rail frequency starting today as well. Light Rail lead times dropping from 15 minutes to 12 minutes, Streetcar lead times also dropping from 20 to 15 minutes, in both cases these new lead times are in effect from opening until 7:00 PM (I think frequencies after 7:00 PM are unchanged). Definitely an important update, obviously still a ways from where we would want to be eventually (maybe 8 minute lead times on the busiest sections?) but good to come out of the 15 minute lead time slump that seems to plague a lot of big city light rail systems.

https://www.valleymetro.org/news/2025/06...n-light-rail-and-streetcar-begins-june-7

Yes, with light rail now split into two intersecting lines, rail cars can be turned around more quickly, so better headways are possible. That's important because some trips that were formerly single-seat rides now require a transfer, and waiting time should be kept to a minimum. I rode the first southbound train to Baseline this morning, and it was a smooth, quick ride. Of course, there were some people going to Fan Fusion confused that the routes were different than they were yesterday. Fortunately, there were plenty of staff on the platforms to help.

[halicem]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Yes, with light rail now split into two intersecting lines, rail cars can be turned around more quickly, so better headways are possible. That's important because some trips that were formerly single-seat rides now require a transfer, and waiting time should be kept to a minimum. I rode the first southbound train to Baseline this morning, and it was a smooth, quick ride. Of course, there were some people going to Fan Fusion confused that the routes were different than they were yesterday. Fortunately, there were plenty of staff on the platforms to help.

I was on the second northbound train, it was the previous gen train but I swear the ride feels so much smoother.. Might be a new track thing idk. I'm glad it's open!

[muertecaza]

Recap of the status and next steps for the Capitol light rail extension.

https://archive.is/2m2oz#selection-905.0-921.144

Definitely feels like we have not heard the last of anti-rail congressmen putting up road blocks. But I don't think state funds are really being used for this extension so hopefully it moves forward.

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Recap of the status and next steps for the Capitol light rail extension.

https://archive.is/2m2oz#selection-905.0-921.144

Definitely feels like we have not heard the last of anti-rail congressmen putting up road blocks. But I don't think state funds are really being used for this extension so hopefully it moves forward.

Oh, I don't think any of these Scottsdale/Fountain Hills culture warriors wants any "dirty poors" from Arizona coming via rail to visit them in the capitol. They'll drag their feet as long as possible. Hopefully, the fact that most people in the metro area support the "all of the above" transportation investment will keep it moving forward. We'll see.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Recap of the status and next steps for the Capitol light rail extension.

https://archive.is/2m2oz#selection-905.0-921.144

Definitely feels like we have not heard the last of anti-rail congressmen putting up road blocks. But I don't think state funds are really being used for this extension so hopefully it moves forward.

Good the capital mall area I think is primed for rapid development. Its basically wide open with great proximity to employment and amenities.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Recap of the status and next steps for the Capitol light rail extension.

https://archive.is/2m2oz#selection-905.0-921.144

Definitely feels like we have not heard the last of anti-rail congressmen putting up road blocks. But I don't think state funds are really being used for this extension so hopefully it moves forward.

No state funds are used for any public transportation project in Arizona. Unlike many states, we have no state funds allocated for that purpose. The lack of state funding won’t stop meddlesome legislators like Kavanagh from trying to stop it, though. For them, opposition to transit, especially rail, is a matter of culture war ideological signaling, not fiscal responsibility.

[az_daniel]

Originally Posted by DesertRay

Oh, I don't think any of these Scottsdale/Fountain Hills culture warriors wants any "dirty poors" from Arizona coming via rail to visit them in the capitol. They'll drag their feet as long as possible. Hopefully, the fact that most people in the metro area support the "all of the above" transportation investment will keep it moving forward. We'll see.

As if the capitol area isn't already full of unsafe streets and dark dirt lots...an injection of new development and good connections to the downtown core would do wonders for the entire government district.

[ASU Diablo]

Didn't realize this project was so far along and the 202/97th Ave segment is scheduled to begin construction in 2027. Similarly, Loop 303 (Van Buren to MC85) which will connect to SR30, will "advertise for construction this summer."

https://azbex.com/budgets-funding/mag-meetings-detail-prop-479-freeway-life-cycle-plans/

SR 30 – Tres Rios

According to the presentation’s update, the $900M Loop 303 extension to connect to SR 30 will advertise for construction this summer.

The currently anticipated construction timelines and costs break out as follows:

• 97th Avenue-Loop 202: Starting in FY 2027 and going to 2030; $1.262B;
• Dysart Road-97th Avenue: FY 2029-2031; $634M;
• Estrella Parkway-Dysart Road: FY 2031-2033; $769M, and
• Loop 303-Estrella Parkway: FY 2033-2035; $860M.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Didn't realize this project was so far along and the 202/97th Ave segment is scheduled to begin construction in 2027. Similarly, Loop 303 (Van Buren to MC85) which will connect to SR30, will "advertise for construction this summer."

https://azbex.com/budgets-funding/mag-meetings-detail-prop-479-freeway-life-cycle-plans/

I remember many years ago they were floating this as a Toll bypass route? Eventually connecting to the Durango curve downtown and even maybe out to the 85 potentially long term.

Is that still the case? Its very popular in SoCal to have alternative routes to bypass traffic but you need to pay

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I remember many years ago they were floating this as a Toll bypass route? Eventually connecting to the Durango curve downtown and even maybe out to the 85 potentially long term.

Is that still the case? Its very popular in SoCal to have alternative routes to bypass traffic but you need to pay

Yep still the plan but not a toll road.


https://azdot.gov/planning/transportation-studies/state-route-30-loop-303-loop-202-study

[MiEncanto]

It's unfortunate that AZ has such weird opinions about certain transportation items

I have seen polling in AZ that toll roads are a 20/80 issue. Even when you explain that the toll would be for a brand new road that doesn't exist and currently does not have funding, voters still don't approve of the road. Even if you say that the toll is temporary just to pay for it's construction. I don't know if it's a "we moved away from places with tolls" anxiety or what.

I think part of the anti-toll is folks saying "well so- and so part of town got a new freeway without a toll so I want the same treatment".

I think it would make total sense to make the north south Pinal freeway, the new 505, a toll road until it is complete.

I feel the same about roundabouts. They're super efficient and would be a huge reliever at many intersections but heaven forbid. The public hates them and all it takes for a weak-kneed city councilmember is to hear from 10 angry constituents for them to fold like a cheap suit.