Interprovincial bridge crossing discussion

[rocketphish]

NCR Eastern Bridge Public Engagement Process begins

Summary of technical studies
https://ncc-website-2.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/Eastern-bridge-technical-studies.pdf

Transportation highlights:

• Increased traffic on Montée Paiement and the Aviation Parkway estimated to be between 700 and 1,960 vehicles in the morning peak hour. [Can we assume the same in the afternoon?]
• A single STO transit route operating at 15-minute intervals is proposed for the new crossing. The proposed route would connect the Blair O-Train station via Ogilvie Road to the Rapibus’s La Cité station near Maloney Boulevard.
• It is estimated that the new corridor would attract between 14% to 28% of the interprovincial truck traffic.
• The Aviation Parkway, Montée Paiement and the bridge may be reduced in cross-section from from the six lanes proposed in earlier studies to four.

Site & Survey:
https://ncc-ccn.gc.ca/projects/eastern-bridge-in-the-national-capital-region

[urbanforest]

Only 14% to 28% of the interprovincial truck traffic? How about >80%?

I'm going to hope they're purposefully underestimating that number in order to limit NIMBY backlash.

[NOWINYOW]

The Aviation Parkway, Montée Paiement and the bridge may be reduced in cross-section from from the six lanes proposed in earlier studies to four.

Why? Fear of planning and building for the future?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by urbanforest

Only 14% to 28% of the interprovincial truck traffic? How about >80%?

I'm going to hope they're purposefully underestimating that number in order to limit NIMBY backlash.

No the vast majority of truck traffic in Gatineau originates or is destined to a location closer to MC Bridget than the new bridge and on the Ontario side a clear majority as well (Including Montreal and Points east and Toronto points west.

14% does seem low unless the connection is so bad that coming from Montreal to Hull and points west is still quicker on the old route which doesn't seem like it would be the case. I guess 28% is capturing most of this traffic?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

The Aviation Parkway, Montée Paiement and the bridge may be reduced in cross-section from from the six lanes proposed in earlier studies to four.

Why? Fear of planning and building for the future?

Six lanes on Aviation Parkway? Was that always part of the plan?

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Six lanes on Aviation Parkway? Was that always part of the plan?

Well, since 2013 anyway. The images shared on p.92, showing the 6-laning, are from the Interprovincial Crossings Environmental Assessment of February 2013.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

No the vast majority of truck traffic in Gatineau originates or is destined to a location closer to MC Bridget than the new bridge and on the Ontario side a clear majority as well (Including Montreal and Points east and Toronto points west.

14% does seem low unless the connection is so bad that coming from Montreal to Hull and points west is still quicker on the old route which doesn't seem like it would be the case. I guess 28% is capturing most of this traffic?

What trucks prefer is irrelevant. It depends on what truck restrictions go on KE.

[wingman]

Originally Posted by acottawa

What trucks prefer is irrelevant. It depends on what truck restrictions go on KE.

YES! This is not one of those, if you build it, they will come sort of deals. Create the alternative path, then put the restrictions on the current paths, especially KE.

I did the survey the other day, lots of good questions that make you think (if you are so inclined).

I am worried about the Montee Paiement impacts, that road from Maloney to the A50 is already a mess during rush hour, especially the piece at the top of the hill...

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

What trucks prefer is irrelevant. It depends on what truck restrictions go on KE.

I mean if we close KE to trucks most of it goes to Portage not the new bridge. If that solves the problem why not just close KE now and save the money.

[Richard Eade]

The NCC has a good study of truck movements, released in June, 2024:

https://ncc-website-2.s3.amazonaws.com/d...k-mobility-data-collection-June-2024.pdf

In it you will find that there are only two (2) authorized truck routes between Ottawa and Gatineau: The Chaudières Crossing, which is load restricted, and was closed from early 2022 until November, 2023; and the Macdonald-Cartier (M-C) Bridge (which is reached via a convoluted routing known as KERWN).

In weekday, by-directional, counts conducted between 2019-2021, it was found that 72% of trucks crossed the KERWN (including 90% of articulated truck crossings) to cross the Ottawa River, while 19% used the Chaudières Crossing. (Interestingly, 9% of truck crossings were done illegally over the other three interprovincial bridges.)

Anyway, my point is that the truck traffic could not simply move over to any other bridge if it were banned from King Edward. Not legally, anyhow.

Could Portage be made a truck route? Maybe, but it is also hard to get to on the Ottawa side. Bronson was not connected (as originally intended), so it is likely that a bunch of trucks will end up winding their way through downtown streets – including along Wellington, in front of Parliament – to get to/from Portage.

I think that the best solution is to finally connect the Vanier Parkway to the M-C Bridge and open up Vanier to all vehicles, including trucks. Although this will ‘ruin’ Vanier, the parkway has the benefit that homes do not front on that road. Noise (absorbing, not reflecting) barriers can be added, if necessary.

But, of course, the sixth bridge is still required; as is a seventh one in the far west.

[Richard Eade]

Forgive my memory, but does anyone know, off hand, what the timings are for the various new bridges? When does the Alexandra get replaced, and when does the sixth bridge open? Is there overlap planned (i.e., finish the eastern bridge, to distribute the load, before removing the Alexandra from service)?

I wonder if the NCC will provide FREE electric ferry service for pedestrians and cyclists across the river while the Alexandra is being replaced? Oh, how about a floating, segmented, bridge that can 'open' (draw-bridge-style or side-swing) for boats? That would be a tourist attraction.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I mean if we close KE to trucks most of it goes to Portage not the new bridge. If that solves the problem why not just close KE now and save the money.

I don’t think there is a legal truck route leading to the portage bridge. Wellington is closed to trucks west of Kent and the parkway does not allow trucks.

Closing all of the bridges is obviously not feasible.

I think part of the problem here is that all of these surveys count all commercial vehicles as “trucks” but from a city bylaw (and the general public’s perspective) they are worried about large 18 wheelers, not the 5 tonne truck delivering a mattress.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t think there is a legal truck route leading to the portage bridge. Wellington is closed to trucks west of Kent and the parkway does not allow trucks.

Closing all of the bridges is obviously not feasible.

I think part of the problem here is that all of these surveys count all commercial vehicles as “trucks” but from a city bylaw (and the general public’s perspective) they are worried about large 18 wheelers, not the 5 tonne truck delivering a mattress.

Yes you're right there is a small gap:

https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/default/files/truck_routes_urban_2021_en.pdf

Chaudière is the other crossing.

There is no way they are going to make every truck detour all the way to an East End Crossing so the 14-28% estimate is probably accurate.

I really don't know if there is much difference from 20 or 25 trucks an hour on King Edward.

[rocketphish]

The last page of that Interprovincial Truck Mobility Study seems to indicate that the following 2 commercial/industrial zones produce the most truck trips on each side of the river. So presumably this is the most efficient route that truck traffic between them will travel along, if taking the new bridge? Maybe that's why the predicted numbers are low.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

The last page of that Interprovincial Truck Mobility Study seems to indicate that the following 2 commercial/industrial zones produce the most truck trips on each side of the river. So presumably this is the most efficient route that truck traffic between them will travel along, if taking the new bridge? Maybe that's why the predicted numbers are low.

Yeah it also claims 65% of truck trips are local though notes this is an underestimate due to sampling issues. From my observation it's 2 to 1 long distance trucks. Logging trucks, various steel obviously not made in NCC and the big retailers.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes you're right there is a small gap:

https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/default/files/truck_routes_urban_2021_en.pdf

Chaudière is the other crossing.

There is no way they are going to make every truck detour all the way to an East End Crossing so the 14-28% estimate is probably accurate.

I really don't know if there is much difference from 20 or 25 trucks an hour on King Edward.

They already make every truck in the city detour to KE either because of the positioning of the bridges or the lack of truck routes to all other bridges. If they take KE off the truck route list then all traffic will have to go through the east end. Again, trucker preferences have nothing to do with it.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

They already make every truck in the city detour to KE either because of the positioning of the bridges or the lack of truck routes to all other bridges. If they take KE off the truck route list then all traffic will have to go through the east end. Again, trucker preferences have nothing to do with it.

KE is fairly central and there is another option for those where it isn't. Adding something like a 20km detour from Chaudiere isn't going to be accepted. Sure their preference doesn't matter but the business community isn't going to accept such an additional cost. To be honest it's not even something anyone has proposed have they? Outside of this thread?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

KE is fairly central and there is another option for those where it isn't. Adding something like a 20km detour from Chaudiere isn't going to be accepted. Sure their preference doesn't matter but the business community isn't going to accept such an additional cost. To be honest it's not even something anyone has proposed have they? Outside of this thread?

Chaudiere is closed to trucks too.

The Queensway exit for KE if 4 km from the Kettle Island bridge. You’re massively exaggerating the detour, and most trucks would find relatively open highways and arterial roads more efficient then the current truck route weaving through the market.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Chaudiere is closed to trucks too.

The Queensway exit for KE if 4 km from the Kettle Island bridge. You’re massively exaggerating the detour, and most trucks would find relatively open highways and arterial roads more efficient then the current truck route weaving through the market.

Chaudière is open again with temporary restrictions. It's at least a 20 minute detour without traffic and you lose the ability to go against traffic as you need to go in both directions from the core in that route. It also assumes that Aviation is turned into a Freeway which seems doubtful.

But as you say bus drivers preference won't matter much if there is a ban. But nobody is proposing that so again it's largely irrelevant. I might agree for most trips at least for larger trucks an extra 20-30 minutes isn't a huge deal but removing trucks is never going to motivate the city's policies. It's a small carrot to get some to go along with this project but is mostly smoke and mirrors.

[rocketphish]

Here's a visual aid for this discussion...

The following mashup depicts the shortest current route from the A5\A50 junction to Hwy 417, which is 6.2km via the KERWN corridor. The same trip via a Kettle Island bridge would be approx 19.4km, or 13.2km longer. Ignore the estimated travel times, which happen to be bad right now through the core.

And clearly the worst impact is on truck traffic coming and going from central and west Ottawa. Traffic coming and going to east Ottawa would have a less long "detour", as it would be travelling to the vicinity of The Split anyway.