Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[ASU Diablo]

There's a corridor study underway from the Deck Park Tunnel to I-10 / I-17 Split, including portions of State Route 51 (SR 51) and the I-10/Loop 202/SR 51 system interchange, known as the “Mini Stack.”

https://magi10study.mysocialpinpoint.com/

Interesting items that they are proposing to alleviate traffic and improve safety, including braided ramps, C-D roads, and new/relocation of ramps.

https://hdp-us-prod-app-wspusa-magstudy-...ay-Boards-36x24in_Fall2024_-_Updated.pdf

[halicem]

Iirc, and not disclosed here, is this will also cause the removal of the multi-use path bridge over the I-10 on 10th st (connecting Banner Health and Downtown, and part of the 10th st bike lane). I'm opposed to that personally as I use that often on my bike.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by halicem

Iirc, and not disclosed here, is this will also cause the removal of the multi-use path bridge over the I-10 on 10th st (connecting Banner Health and Downtown, and part of the 10th st bike lane). I'm opposed to that personally as I use that often on my bike.

Thanks. I was not aware of this detail. Up to now, I was neutral on this proposal as long as the freeway stayed within its existing footprint with no widening that would further intrude on the historic neighborhoods on both sides. I'm now leaning against this knowing that it would lead to the loss of a bike/ped bridge.

[exit2lef]

Valley Metro has announced a proposed July 28 service change on the Central Avenue bus route. While it's not stated, my guess is that this is the tentative date (or close to it) for the opening of the South Central light rail extension and the split of the current single line into two intersecting lines. The changes to bus service make more sense when combined with new rail service between Baseline and Camelback.

https://valleymetro.org/maps-schedules/july-2025-proposed-service-changes

[locolife]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Thanks. I was not aware of this detail. Up to now, I was neutral on this proposal as long as the freeway stayed within its existing footprint with no widening that would further intrude on the historic neighborhoods on both sides. I'm now leaning against this knowing that it would lead to the loss of a bike/ped bridge.

Same, here. Anything reducing non-vehicle flexibility is a no for me, we need more of this not less. Especially downtown. That really shouldn't be hard to fix, right?

[Prestige Worldwide]

Originally Posted by locolife

Same, here. Anything reducing non-vehicle flexibility is a no for me, we need more of this not less. Especially downtown. That really shouldn't be hard to fix, right?

Has Urban Phoenix Project or any local neighborhood groups been activated to oppose this? The 10th St. Ped Bridge gets used. There is no reason to eliminate it and the lazy reply of 'well, there's two bridges 1/4 mi. away' just doesn't cut it. The 7th St. bridge is dangerous and the 12th St. bridge is out of the way for people stuck just east of 7th St. People who live in Coronado who commute by bike into Downtown need to get on this before it's too late.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Prestige Worldwide

Has Urban Phoenix Project or any local neighborhood groups been activated to oppose this? The 10th St. Ped Bridge gets used. There is no reason to eliminate it and the lazy reply of 'well, there's two bridges 1/4 mi. away' just doesn't cut it. The 7th St. bridge is dangerous and the 12th St. bridge is out of the way for people stuck just east of 7th St. People who live in Coronado who commute by bike into Downtown need to get on this before it's too late.

I know some of the UPP leadership and will mention this. It would also be nice if Banner opposed this. I'm sure some medical students, residents, and hospital staff use it to reach the Garfield neighborhood and the biomedical campus downtown.

[halicem]

Originally Posted by Prestige Worldwide

Has Urban Phoenix Project or any local neighborhood groups been activated to oppose this? The 10th St. Ped Bridge gets used. There is no reason to eliminate it and the lazy reply of 'well, there's two bridges 1/4 mi. away' just doesn't cut it. The 7th St. bridge is dangerous and the 12th St. bridge is out of the way for people stuck just east of 7th St. People who live in Coronado who commute by bike into Downtown need to get on this before it's too late.

I remember it bubbled up as a last-minute notice at Downtown Voices a few months ago (a few days before the meeting) and everyone was opposed to it getting removed. This was also how I came to be aware of its proposed removal. A lot were surprised at how this project felt like it crept up on everyone.

I believe the i-10 will be widened to make room for the additional lanes/offramps so they have to take it down and they don't want to rebuild it.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Valley Metro has announced a proposed July 28 service change on the Central Avenue bus route. While it's not stated, my guess is that this is the tentative date (or close to it) for the opening of the South Central light rail extension and the split of the current single line into two intersecting lines. The changes to bus service make more sense when combined with new rail service between Baseline and Camelback.

https://valleymetro.org/maps-schedules/july-2025-proposed-service-changes

Right! This is for route 0. It will combine. No longer route 0a. They became route 0.

[exit2lef]

A June 7 opening date for the South Central light rail extension has been announced. This will also be when the current single line splits into two intersecting ones.

https://www.valleymetro.org/project/project/south-central-extension-downtown-hub/opening

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

A June 7 opening date for the South Central light rail extension has been announced. This will also be when the current single line splits into two intersecting ones.

https://www.valleymetro.org/project/project/south-central-extension-downtown-hub/opening

The image of Mayor Gallego sitting alone on the train made me snort my drink through my nose. That's exactly what those trains out of South Central are going to look like.

And when people in midtown are forced to switch trains to go to the airport, the howls are going to be loud. What a nightmare.

[N830MH]

Soon they will start construction to Capitol light rail service expansion from Downtown Phoenix. Construction starts by early 2026.

[combusean]

The South Central extension should have been a spoke line and turned into an L with the capitol extension whenever that starts up. The original line should be preserved.

The way they're doing it now is just dumb.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by combusean

The South Central extension should have been a spoke line and turned into an L with the capitol extension whenever that starts up. The original line should be preserved.

The way they're doing it now is just dumb.

I remember hearing lots of talk of maintaining some trains running the current L-shaped route, or at least a subset of it, but that doesn't appear to be the plan right now. I would imagine it adds a significant degree of operational complexity to have A, B, and C trains with the C route interlining with portions of A and B. In terms of transfers replacing what were formerly single-seat rides, I'm most concerned about pedestrian safety at the new Downtown Hub. I am not confident that Phoenix's Street Transportation department will make the necessary changes at surrounding intersections to enable safe and seamless connections for passengers.

Currently, the intersections of First Avenue / Jefferson and First Avenue / Washington are needlessly hostile to pedestrians. Because both involve one-way streets, left-on-red is permitted there, and dedicated lanes for those turns connect westbound Washington to southbound 1st Avenue and southbound 1st Avenue to eastbound Jefferson. Unfortunately, those dedicated left turn lanes make the streets wider than they should be, and many drivers interpret those lanes as implicit permission to make a left turn without a full stop. Even when the light is green, drivers turning left do not always yield to pedestrians in crosswalks.

My concern is that passengers transferring between the A and B trains will increase the volume of pedestrian traffic in this area, and that some passengers will want to cross the street quickly if they foresee missing a connection. Combine hurried pedestrians with the number of cars turning left at both intersections, and there is a high potential that someone will be struck by a turning vehicle while making a light rail transfer. The city should be considering the following steps to make this hub work as safely as possible:

--At a minimum, left-on-red should be forbidden at both intersections and there should be leading pedestrian intervals that give pedestrians a head start relative to cars.

--Ideally, the intersections should be converted to pedestrian scrambles at which cars in all directions are simultaneously stopped so that pedestrians may cross the intersection diagonally.

[Forrester1998]

This obviously would be pretty far off, but I wonder if once the west Phoenix lines get built (both the Capitol/I10 extension and the "Maryvale" extension) if they could implement a system w/ 3 routes where the lines are as follows:

1) 1-Line goes from Mesa to Downtown then to Desert Sky Mall via Capitol/I10 extension (current plan)
2) 2-Line goes from South Phoenix to whatever the terminus at the north end is so probably Metrocenter but optimistically maybe ASU West? (Current plan)
3) 3-Line would go from Mesa to Downtown then to Desert Sky Mall via Midtown/Maryvale extension.

This results in 1 and 3 having the same terminuses but having different routes through West Phoenix, would result in double coverage of the busier parts of the line (Midtown + Downtown + East Valley parts of the mainline) and would make sure that Midtown people have a direct line to the airport. I think if you wanted you could even have the 3-Line turn around in Tempe if you don't think Mesa needs the double coverage.

There's some drawbacks to this of course. More trains obvi plus more complex scheduling. Passengers on the double covered portions would have to be more careful if they were riding far enough. But when it comes down to it some portions of the system need more coverage than others, so it seems like we will need something like this eventually.

There's some drawbacks to this of course.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Forrester1998

This obviously would be pretty far off, but I wonder if once the west Phoenix lines get built (both the Capitol/I10 extension and the "Maryvale" extension) if they could implement a system w/ 3 routes where the lines are as follows:

1) 1-Line goes from Mesa to Downtown then to Desert Sky Mall via Capitol/I10 extension (current plan)
2) 2-Line goes from South Phoenix to whatever the terminus at the north end is so probably Metrocenter but optimistically maybe ASU West? (Current plan)
3) 3-Line would go from Mesa to Downtown then to Desert Sky Mall via Midtown/Maryvale extension.

This results in 1 and 3 having the same terminuses but having different routes through West Phoenix, would result in double coverage of the busier parts of the line (Midtown + Downtown + East Valley parts of the mainline) and would make sure that Midtown people have a direct line to the airport. I think if you wanted you could even have the 3-Line turn around in Tempe if you don't think Mesa needs the double coverage.

There's some drawbacks to this of course. More trains obvi plus more complex scheduling. Passengers on the double covered portions would have to be more careful if they were riding far enough. But when it comes down to it some portions of the system need more coverage than others, so it seems like we will need something like this eventually.

There's some drawbacks to this of course.

I like your thinking. The C Train (or 3 line in your post) is a long way in the future, but if it's ever built, having some interlining along Central Avenue would provide higher levels of service and fewer transfers for passengers in Midtown.

[Phxguy]

Saw a response post from Valley Metro on social media that headways for the light rail will be brought back to 12 minutes frequencies before 7 pm with the opening of the 2-line system. Haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere but if true this is a huge win for the system as a whole. Obviously 12 minute headways aren't ideal but it is a step back in the right direction!

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Phxguy

Saw a response post from Valley Metro on social media that headways for the light rail will be brought back to 12 minutes frequencies before 7 pm with the opening of the 2-line system. Haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere but if true this is a huge win for the system as a whole. Obviously 12 minute headways aren't ideal but it is a step back in the right direction!

Yes, it's definitely a positive step. Longer term, the goal should be restoration of the original 10 minute headways we had when light rail service started back in 2008.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by Phxguy

Saw a response post from Valley Metro on social media that headways for the light rail will be brought back to 12 minutes frequencies before 7 pm with the opening of the 2-line system. Haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere but if true this is a huge win for the system as a whole. Obviously 12 minute headways aren't ideal but it is a step back in the right direction!

Yeah I saw that too. 12 minutes is certainly better than 15 minutes. But for me I still need to check the schedule and time it so I don't just miss a train and have to wait. Getting under 10 starts to be in the range where you don't even have to check the schedule.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Yes, it's definitely a positive step. Longer term, the goal should be restoration of the original 10 minute headways we had when light rail service started back in 2008.

Yes, that's true. I remember they started 10 minutes and it didn't work. They had to change to 12 minutes headways. They were struggling with riders. Due to economy crisis. Those people who don't have a money for ride.