DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[TakeFive]

IT'S COMPLICATED

For the record I have no talent nor particular opinion...

Change is coming to Denver’s Civic Center Park
Nov 25, 2024 Updated Mar 13, 2025 By Bernadette Berdychowski -- The Denver Gazette

The park is a National Historic Landmark, the highest designation an historic site can get in the U.S. It is the only one within the city’s limits and it is subject to strict federal regulations.

Denver commissioned globally-renowned architecture firm Studio Gang ... to modernize the Greek Theater by west 14th Avenue and transform it into an “intimate” events venue.

He Said, She Said

A group consisting of architects, preservationists and the historians who helped put forth the park’s National Historic Landmark nomination in 2012 voiced concerns that changes proposed to the park’s Greek Theater could cause permanent damage.

Meanwhile, two notable historic preservationist advocacy groups, Historic Denver and Colorado Preservation, Inc., expressed support for the project —with a few caveats.

I'm not sure exactly what they ended up approving, lol.

[TakeFive]

This should be interesting - with respect to the Denver property

$325M Of Nonperforming Debt On Coliving Buildings Up For Sale
May 28, 2025 By Emily Wishingrad, Washington, D.C

The debt on two properties totaling 785 units in Phoenix and Denver has hit the market.

X Phoenix -- 200 W. Monroe St


Per Google Maps via Bisnow

X Denver -- 3100 Inca St


Courtesy X Denver

Chicago-based The X Co., which develops coliving spaces, defaulted on the loans, totaling $325M, and Newmark is marketing the debt on behalf of lender Mack Real Estate Credit Strategies, GreenStreet's Real Estate Alert reported.

The X Co. developed the 330-unit Phoenix building in 2022 and the 455-unit Denver property in 2021. The debt on the X Denver property is $170M. The interest-only loan is scheduled for initial maturity in January.

Mack Real Estate originated the senior debt and is “believed to have provided” the mezzanine debt, according to Real Estate Alert. The X Co. secured the notes in 2022. Each had a three-year term and two single-year extension options.

Buyers can purchase the loans separately or together, and initial offers are due June 18.

Owner Background

The X Co. founder Noah Gottlieb developed the concept while at Miami-based Property Markets Group and spun it off as an independent firm, according to Real Estate Alert. Residents have access to coworking spaces, members-only clubs, activities and furnished apartments.

With respect to X-2 Denver at 2130 Arapahoe St.

The property is now called "Velaris Living." We covered that last year. The co-investor lender took over ownership of the property and moved it over to their investment division.

With respect to co-living projects

The first challenge is to construct (or convert) the project. Equally important is capable management of the apartments.

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Civic Center should be this, except it's not a good park for anything except big events.

Imagine if we could put Lincoln and Broadway below grade between 14th and Colfax. It would not only relieve a lot of stoplight congestion at the four adjoining intersections but it would make Civic Park a much quieter, peaceful, and prettier park to enjoy, especially since it would no longer be cut into thirds by the street traffic. Put a running loop around the circumference and possibly a reflective pond where the street grid used to be to enhance the ideallic splendor. Maybe while they’re digging everything up, put an extra 500 parking spots to be located under the park, adjacent to the underground bus stop.

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Imagine if we could put Lincoln and Broadway below grade between 14th and Colfax. It would not only relieve a lot of stoplight congestion at the four adjoining intersections but it would make Civic Park a much quieter, peaceful, and prettier park to enjoy, especially since it would no longer be cut into thirds by the street traffic. Put a running loop around the circumference and possibly a reflective pond where the street grid used to be to enhance the ideallic splendor. Maybe while they’re digging everything up, put an extra 500 parking spots to be located under the park, adjacent to the underground bus stop.

This sounds great - although, realistically, wouldn't they need to go below grade for more than just a single block to navigate that grade change and then come back to the surface? A grade separated tunnel would need to be at least 15-feet below ground (or maybe more), but there are only about 520 feet between 14th and Colfax. It seems like this would really need to run between about 13th and up to 16th to not feel like a roller-coaster, and I'm not sure (logistically) how it would work if Broadway and Lincoln no longer had at-grade intersections with Colfax.

But I'd also play devil's advocate by pointing out that grade separating these streets to "relieve congestion" is a very expensive - and uniquely American approach to this problem. I would argue that doing so would only reinforce speed, traffic volume, and the associated urban noise. Right now, the state is proposing a pedestrian bridge over Lincoln. I personally agree with Historic Denver that this is the wrong solution.

What if, instead, we could approach these roadway barriers by slowing Broadway and Lincoln and making the at-grade pedestrian crossing more friendly? This is the approach that Amsterdam uses in front of their Rijksmuseum, and I would argue it works way better than any Paris-style (or Speer-boulevard style) grade separated tunnel ever could. But it admittedly also wouldn't add any additional real estate to the park.

[mhays]

You'd simplify the engineering by raising the walkway a little. I don't know the math, but even a few feet might do wonders for the road geometry. It would require limited construction inside the parks. You could directly tie into the stairs at each end.

It's a good idea to connect the parks, but the road ditches would diminish them somewhat. Still probably worth it.

During festivals, do they have flaggers?

[mr1138]

^Good feedback! I hadn't considered that the ground level could be raised given that it connects to Cap "Hill." Concerns about high-volume Princess Diana-Tunnels aside, it would absolutely be worth it to better connect CC Park to the Capitol Grounds. Much better than that awful bridge they are proposing.

It is definitely an admirable goal to better activate Civic Center and improve the connection to the capitol - but doing so is not the silver bullet that will solve Downtown's lack of park space. Only more park space will solve the problem of downtown needing more park space.

[RiNo Randy]

I've been lurking on this site for a minute. As my moniker suggests, I'm Randy from RiNo (Five Points, specifically).

My journey into urbanism began when I purchased a home in Park Hill in 2007. I lived there for 10 years and bought my condo in late 2017. I had a corporate relocation to Texas (ugh) in mid 2017, but thankfully kept the condo. Split from the corporate world in 2023 and moved back. I've basically been unemployed since then, but have a gig job doing art/graffiti tours in RiNo.

Agree with your comments regarding 16th Street. Promenade probably should have been part of the name, like 3rd Street in Santa Monica, but I digress. Regarding the trees, yes they need some trimming of the lower branches (eye pokers), but not while they are in an active growth phase as they are now.

Interesting concept regarding Lawrence Street. I don't think it will fly. You all probably remember the outrage from the NIMBY crowd regarding 39th Avenue Greenway before it got underway - I personally think it is great. But part of that outrage was it's "connection" to the I-70 project, while flawed, was necessary as the viaduct was literally falling apart in front of our eyes.

I do miss the more frequent updates from DenverInfill, as that was a great source of information. Hopefully it sticks around.

That being said, I noticed that some minor excavation work has taken place at 38th & Walnut. There is also a small Weitz container on site. Perhaps these projects from Formativ are breaking ground soon? https://formativco.com/projects/#3850blake

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by mr1138

What if, instead, we could approach these roadway barriers by slowing Broadway and Lincoln and making the at-grade pedestrian crossing more friendly? This is the approach that Amsterdam uses in front of their Rijksmuseum, and I would argue it works way better than any Paris-style (or Speer-boulevard style) grade separated tunnel ever could. But it admittedly also wouldn't add any additional real estate to the park.

From my anecdotal experience, the Rijksmusuem crossing was decidedly unfriendly for pedestrians (from an Amsterdam perspective) due to the heavy bike traffic and what felt like synchronization issues between the vehicle and cycling traffic signals.

Which would still be a massive improvement over what's in Denver.

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

From my anecdotal experience, the Rijksmusuem crossing was decidedly unfriendly for pedestrians (from an Amsterdam perspective) due to the heavy bike traffic and what felt like synchronization issues between the vehicle and cycling traffic signals.

Which would still be a massive improvement over what's in Denver.

I actually do know what you mean - and those bike riders will yell at you if you step into the bike lane. But I guess I liked all the modal-sorting and pedestrian refuge islands, and the fact that you only have to cross basically one lane at a time.

Ultimately - a busy street is a busy street I think. But I like that there is an option for processing traffic where you are less likely to get hit by a vehicle doing 45+. And it seems to work - the NL has less than 60 pedestrian deaths a year (population around 17 million). Compare that to 119 in NYC alone in 2024.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by mr1138

In the case of Civic Center, it is trapped in its 12 acres and hemmed-in by significant government institutions.

The case I'd make is - if this was supposed to be Denver's "central commons," they should have grabbed a LOT more land.

I mean, if the problem is that the buildings along the edges lack sidewalk activity--an astute observation that I agree with--then the size of the park isn't super relevant to that issue. The problem is the land use decision to line it on all 4 sides with big civic buildings, which act as a barrier between the functioning everyday part of the city and its core park.

Unfortunately that ship has sailed. We're not going to convince anybody to tear down the Webb Building for at least another twenty years.

Might help if we let a developer build a sidewalk-facing shopping mall atop Civic Center bus station though. That single block of Broadway between the end of the 16th Street Mall Way and Civic Center Park strikes me as a potential opportunity.

[mr1138]

That is all absolutely true - but I still think there are two separate problems. If the park needs to be "activated" from the edges, then I still think it is functioning more like a plaza or a square. And there is nothing wrong with that. In the case of Civic Center, the problem isn't just the civic buildings, it's also the streets. You could have great storefront activation north of Colfax, but Colfax and Broadway/Lincoln would still act as huge barriers.

But I'm also speaking to my original statement that it would be great to "have something more like Wash Park or Cheseman Park, but walkable to downtown." I'm being greedy, and I do still think size has something to do with that. If somebody can show me an example of a "central park" that is under 20 acres and really works, I'm prepared to eat my words. But I have been looking, and I cannot find anything that I think would count. There are great urban squares back east like Washington Square in NYC, or Rittenhouse Square in Philadelphia. Rittenhouse in particular strikes me as one that benefits from storefront activation all around the square.

But these "square parks" aren't really the kinds of park I am talking about. Denver isn't alone - most American cities don't appear to have a park like this central to downtown. But I feel like many European cities have at least one - Vondelpark in Amsterdam, Hyde Park (among others) in London, the Villa Borghese in Rome, the Prater in Vienna, or the Tiergarten in Berlin. Of course, many of the European parks also have beginnings as royal estates, something completely missing in American history. Which I suppose is part of what makes the story of NYC's Central Park, Boston's Commons, or Chicago's Grant Park that much more unusual. Why set so much land aside when our cities were being developed with a capitalist mindset?

There is a plat of a part of LoDo etched into the sidewalk outside the Webb Building, and it shows a two-city-block "square" between what became Wynkoop and Wazee streets, directly in front of Union Station. Needless to say this did not happen, and every last parcel of real estate in the original town site was developed. Denver was seen as an engine for making money and processing ore, and not as a city deserving of grand civic spaces. The time to grab a 50-acre park, like what Oklahoma City just did, would have been in the DURA era when land values were much lower. Now we have to look for land that is otherwise not available for real estate development.

[DenvertoLA]

To sidetrack away from civic park for a second. If we’re seeking attainable ideas that deliver downtown Denver a grand outdoor area for pedestrians, I think there is one main opportunity. That is closing Wynkoop st from 16th-18th.

It’s not a large park, but it would be a grand plaza akin to those in Europe. A bonus to this idea is the cost benefit ratio is amazing.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by mr1138

it would be great to "have something more like Wash Park or Cheseman Park, but walkable to downtown."

If somebody can show me an example of a "central park" that is under 20 acres and really works, I'm prepared to eat my words. "Square parks" aren't really the kinds of park I am talking about.

I get the difference from a square, although I don't get the sense you really mean a big forest park either, quite exactly. Maybe a "shade and strolling park" is a quick description of what you mean?

I guess I just don't agree that a big park specifically downtown is all that high a priority, particularly since the Mall Way is such a nice strolling space. If we're adding new parks, I'd prioritize having a nice square every few blocks. And let people who want a bigger park take a transit line to reach it.

Maybe Denver has such a geographically small genuinely walkable area that it feels like it's downtown or bust?

I will say that DC has a couple of spaces that are more "shade and stroll" than "square" that might fit your definition. Meridian Hill Park at 12 acres is probably the best example (compared to Rittenhouse's 8 acres).

And Boston Public Garden is only 25 acres. Granted it's immediately adjacent to the 50 acre Boston Common, but Boston Common is just the barrier you have to walk through to get to the much-nicer Public Garden.

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

To sidetrack away from civic park for a second. If we’re seeking attainable ideas that deliver downtown Denver a grand outdoor area for pedestrians, I think there is one main opportunity. That is closing Wynkoop st from 16th-18th.

It’s not a large park, but it would be a grand plaza akin to those in Europe. A bonus to this idea is the cost benefit ratio is amazing.

I totally agree and this almost seems like a no-brainer. The Union Station wing plazas turned out FANTASTIC, but it would still be SO much better if we could just take Wynkoop Street out of the equation and let the plaza extend all the way to the storefronts on all sides. At this point those plazas don't really feel like a "square" - but they COULD feel this way if the street were removed.

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Maybe Denver has such a geographically small genuinely walkable area that it feels like it's downtown or bust?

You may be exactly right about this. If "downtown" felt large enough to be inclusive of Cap Hill, Cheseman would fit the bill just perfectly. The shame of the current situation is that people do need to take a transit line in order to reach a bigger park (except this is Denver, so people just drive instead).

But in either case, looking for 50+ free acres for a park in downtown is a bit like trying to find Diagon Alley in London - it just isn't there. Which is why I keep coming back to the Riverfront, because that's the only possible place we have near downtown for the kind of park I'm talking about.

And yes, I suppose I am talking about a "shade and stroll." And I don't see it as an either this or that kind of situation. My favorite cities have both these kinds of parks AND nice squares every few blocks. This should not be a mutually exclusive choice.

Meridian Hill Park begins to fit the bill - but this still isn't quite what I'm talking about. I'm thinking something more like Patterson Park in Baltimore. It's about the ability to go on a 45-60 min long walk completely inside the park and not feel like you are just walking loops around a track. No 12 acre space is ever going to pull that off.

[TakeFive]

Quite Timely

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

To sidetrack away from civic park for a second. If we’re seeking attainable ideas that deliver downtown Denver a grand outdoor area for pedestrians, I think there is one main opportunity. That is closing Wynkoop st from 16th-18th.

It’s not a large park, but it would be a grand plaza akin to those in Europe. A bonus to this idea is the cost benefit ratio is amazing.

Wynkoop Street in downtown could be Denver’s next car-lite ‘shared street’
July 22, 2024 By Nathaniel Minor -- Denverite

The Denver Department of Transportation and Infrastructure is commissioning a study of Wynkoop between 14th and 19th streets through the heart of Lower Downtown and near some of its biggest attractions like the Cherry Creek Trail, Union Station and Coors Field.

“We want to take a deep dive to fully understand all the activities that occur on Wynkoop, determine its limitations and what changes and enhancements might be feasible for it to better serve our community,”

Maintaining vehicle access is likely more important to some people than others. For Example:

Denver Union Station and The Crawford Hotel Complete Renovation
January 16, 2025 By LODGING Staff

DENVER, Colorado—Denver Union Station and The Crawford Hotel recently completed a refresh, including updates to the Great Hall and each of the hotel’s 112 guestrooms.

Credit: The Ingalls

Of course the The Crawford Hotel is owned by Sage Hospitality Group (Walter Isenberg). The larger Denver Union Station, is owned by the Union Station Alliance.

When you have the kind of money invested that these parties do you don't want to see others hurt your investment. How they feel about the options I don't really know; just guessing.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by mr1138

II'm thinking something more like Patterson Park in Baltimore. It's about the ability to go on a 45-60 min long walk completely inside the park and not feel like you are just walking loops around a track. No 12 acre space is ever going to pull that off.

Fair enough. Agree the riverfront can be that, and think we can achieve bigger than just Commons Park. The Platte Trail & Cherry Creek trails themselves are... underdesigned. They'd be nicer as linear parks instead of just trails. Consistent shade & seating, plus a little public art and a thoughtful rebrand, would go a long way.

[TakeFive]

Just My Opinion

When I think of parks, I think of families; I think of kids; I think of "baseball/soccer, Mom and Apple Pie."

When I dated someone with kids (or dogs) or just two people who wanted to walk along a lake... whether in SE Denver, SW Denver or NW Denver I've been there done that and rarely been disappointed. Denver-owned Mountain Parks which overlook the whole metro area are awesome.

Closer to the City Center are several 'signature' parks. Five of the Top Ten Denver parks according to Tripadvisor:

1. Washington Park
2. City Park
3. Denver Mountain Parks
4. Cheesman Park
5. Sloan's Lake Park

It's also important to pay tribute to Capitalist Robert W. Speer who gave us scenes like these:


Courtesy Kevin J. Beaty/Denverite


Photo courtesy of Visit Denver


Courtesy GREAT RUNS

Also interesting is that sometimes Capitalists can be easily misjudged.
Credit History Colorado

After Speer’s death, his estate was found to be surprisingly small for a man so deeply involved in real estate and politics. His lack of wealth helped disprove the detractors who had speculated for decades that he was using his power to enrich himself at the city’s expense. In reality he had been a formidable manager of city funds who consistently oversaw surpluses, all while investing in civic monuments and improvements that increased the welfare and pleasure of the citizenry and that continue to define Denver to this day.

[TakeFive]

Putting a wrap on LMC's Golden Triangle story

BusinessDen reported that the Denver Art Museum paid $7M for a Golden Triangle parking lot. It was one of the parcels that LMC (Lennar multifamily) had purchased for development.
This parcel was to be a 16-story apartment but it remained in moth balls.

In December 2023, Lennar Homes put up all their apartment properties For Sale. KKR purchased 5,200 units for $2.1 billion including the Denver properties.

Not sure who was in title on this sale to Denver Art Museum (it doesn't matter) and it's the end of the trail for LMC in Denver.

One last look at my favorite LMC project:


Courtesy Citizen West 10th/Shears Adkins Rockmore

[TakeFive]

.........


16th Street


Photo Courtesy Office of the City Forester - City and County of Denver

[RiNo Randy]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

16th Street

I agree that it does look good. Only question is why does that portion of 16th street have more tree density (Market through Arapahoe) versus the rest?