The US Census Bureau thread

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

MSAs by total population in CT's over 20,000 ppsm:

...

Miami: 396,021

...

For future censuses, demographers will need to be more flexible in their use of "land" area as the denominator for this calculation in some locations.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ It might also just be random suburban apartment complexes that are their own census tracts.

For example, take CT 4214.02 in Houston.

It has a population density of 52,749 ppsm!!!!!!!!

Holy shit, that's gotta be the most urban place in all of Texas!




Whoops.........

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7146...oASAFQAw%3D%3D



dense?

sure.

urban?

dear god.

Gulfton. Not a nice area. It was 40 years ago when it was built to accommodate young professionals moving to Houston but it's now predominantly very low income immigrants from Central America who tend to house their entire extended families in a 2 bedroom apartment.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by JManc

Gulfton. Not a nice area. It was 40 years ago when it was built to accommodate young professionals moving to Houston but it's now predominantly very low income immigrants from Central America who tend to house their entire extended families in a 2 bedroom apartment.

"In BEAUTIFUL southwest Houston!" That always made/makes me laugh.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by subterranean

I find the Portland number a little suspect, but it’s probably just because plenty of census tracts are very close to 20k

Keep in mind that most of the other cities on the list would also have plenty of CT's just below the 20K ppsm threshold too. That's the thing with arbitrary cut-offs: they're arbitrary, but at least everyone is getting cut-off uniformly.

In any event, as the data shows, living in densities above 20K ppsm is fairly rare in the US outside of "the big urban 7". In fact, NYC alone probably has more people in that category than the rest of the nation combined! And the next 6 probably have more than what's left after that. Density in the US is extremely top heavy.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by JManc

Gulfton. Not a nice area. It was 40 years ago when it was built to accommodate young professionals moving to Houston but it's now predominantly very low income immigrants from Central America who tend to house their entire extended families in a 2 bedroom apartment.

I doubt this environment was ever truly "nice".

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ide7fxdDJGWuM7Pr8?g_st=ac

Well, at least not to my urbanist eyes.

It's like all of the worst aspects of higher density, combined with absolutely none of its benefits.



But that old TV commercial is pure gold!

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I doubt this environment was ever truly "nice".

Which is why I laughed at the "beautiful southwest Houston" part even when the commercial was new.

BTW, last I heard, that guy was developing properties in Phoenix.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by plinko

I suspect that the 20,351 in Phoenix are actually in Tempe but I don’t know how to look it up. Most of the dense poorer neighborhoods in Phoenix (Maryvale) are in the 8,000 range IIRC.

I clicked around on this map:

https://maps.geo.census.gov/ddmv/map.html

There are probably ~4 tracts that are 20k+. One of them is indeed in Tempe, right by ASU, and is probably the densest census tract in the Phoenix area at around 36k ppm. One of the other 20k+ tracts is actually in Maryvale, around Indian School/67th Ave. The denser tracts in that area are now more like 10-15k ppm, and one is just over 20k+. Couldn't find the other two tracts that are 20k+ according to the numbers in this thread, but didn't look too long.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I doubt this environment was ever truly "nice".

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ide7fxdDJGWuM7Pr8?g_st=ac

Well, at least not to my urbanist eyes.

It's like all of the worst aspects of higher density, combined with absolutely none of its benefits.



But that old TV commercial is pure gold!

If you were a randy twenty-something professional new to Houston back in 1985, it probably was a very cool place to live. Sure, you had to hop in the IROC to score some mescaline but you got a free video player!

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Keep in mind that most of the other cities on the list would also have plenty of CT's just below the 20K ppsm threshold too. That's the thing with arbitrary cut-offs: they're arbitrary, but at least everyone is getting cut-off uniformly.

In any event, as the data shows, living in densities above 20K ppsm is fairly rare in the US outside of "the big urban 7". In fact, NYC alone probably has more people in that category than the rest of the nation combined! And the next 6 probably have more than what's left after that. Density in the US is extremely top heavy.

That arbitrary line of 20,000 ppsm certainly reinforces basically what we already know. I think 10,000 people per square mile would paint a better picture of the mid-tier cities that obviously can’t compete with NYC, LA, Chicago et al. I bet Portland does a bit better than Austin, for example.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by subterranean

I think 10,000 people per square mile would paint a better picture of the mid-tier cities that obviously can’t compete with NYC, LA, Chicago et al. I bet Portland does a bit better than Austin, for example.

ChiSoxRox to the rescue once again!

He also tabulated US MSAs with at least 20K people in census tracts >10K ppsm with 2020 data.


Total MSA population living in CT's over 10,000 ppsm:

1. New York: 11,694,534
2. Los Angeles: 6,611,283
3. Chicago: 2,614,012
4. San Francisco: 2,073,127
5. Philadelphia: 1,580,169
6. Boston: 1,448,764
7. Miami: 1,398,475
8. Washington: 1,230,663
9. San Diego: 816,530
10. San Jose: 720,560
11. Seattle: 505,840
12. Houston: 495,906
13. Las Vegas: 441,510
14. Honolulu: 395,854
15. Dallas: 390,927
16. Baltimore: 375,152
17. Riverside: 339,111
18. Phoenix: 328,143
19. Denver: 315,809
20. Providence: 301,925
21. Minneapolis: 241,894
22. Milwaukee: 226,941
23. Portland: 179,612
24. Bridgeport: 168,397
25. Buffalo: 153,098
26. Oxnard: 152,811
27. Atlanta: 150,542
28. Sacramento: 149,401
29. Detroit: 126,508
30. Salinas: 116,532
31. Santa Barbara: 104,916
32. New Haven: 96,281
33. New Orleans: 95,502
34. Pittsburgh: 94,694
35. Hartford: 87,780
36. Columbus: 86,536
37. Allentown: 84,293
38. Cleveland: 78,607
39. Austin: 76,408
40. Trenton: 70,272
41. Orlando: 67,832
42. Worcester: 66,488
43. Stockton: 65,403
44. Fresno: 64,225
45. Madison: 63,212
46. Reading: 61,836
47. Rochester: 60,997
48. Albany: 57,733
49. Springfield, MA: 56,107
50. St. Louis: 53,286
51. Poughkeepsie: 48,699
52. Salt Lake City: 47,020
53. Cincinnati: 46,615
54. Lancaster: 46,505
55. Tampa Bay: 43,634
56. Santa Cruz: 43,412
57. Richmond: 40,379
58. Bakersfield: 36,880
59. Manchester: 36,655
60. San Antonio: 33,299
61. Reno: 33,110
62. Harrisburg: 32,348
63. Provo: 31,825
64. Scranton: 31,525
65. State College: 28,622
66. Syracuse: 27,262
67. Modesto: 26,829
68. Ann Arbor: 26,580
69. York: 25,122
70. Boulder: 22,321
71. Champaign: 22,271
72. Charlotte: 21,929
73. Vallejo: 21,593
74. Atlantic City: 21,194
75. Lansing: 20,787
76. Laredo: 20,126

Portland does a lot better than Austin at this threshold.

[subterranean]

Love it, thanks.

[benp]

Originally Posted by JManc

Gulfton. Not a nice area. It was 40 years ago when it was built to accommodate young professionals moving to Houston but it's now predominantly very low income immigrants from Central America who tend to house their entire extended families in a 2 bedroom apartment.

It absolutely was not a nice area 40 years ago. I lived there in 1982. I have stories.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

ChiSoxRox to the rescue once again!

He also tabulated US MSAs with at least 20K people in census tracts >10K ppsm with 2020 data.


Total MSA population living in CT's over 10,000 ppsm:

1. New York: 11,694,534
2. Los Angeles: 6,611,283
3. Chicago: 2,614,012
4. San Francisco: 2,073,127
5. Philadelphia: 1,580,169
6. Boston: 1,448,764
7. Miami: 1,398,475
8. Washington: 1,230,663
9. San Diego: 816,530
10. San Jose: 720,560
11. Seattle: 505,840
12. Houston: 495,906
13. Las Vegas: 441,510
14. Honolulu: 395,854
15. Dallas: 390,927
16. Baltimore: 375,152
17. Riverside: 339,111
18. Phoenix: 328,143
19. Denver: 315,809
20. Providence: 301,925
21. Minneapolis: 241,894
22. Milwaukee: 226,941
23. Portland: 179,612
24. Bridgeport: 168,397
25. Buffalo: 153,098
26. Oxnard: 152,811
27. Atlanta: 150,542
28. Sacramento: 149,401
29. Detroit: 126,508
30. Salinas: 116,532
31. Santa Barbara: 104,916
32. New Haven: 96,281
33. New Orleans: 95,502
34. Pittsburgh: 94,694
35. Hartford: 87,780
36. Columbus: 86,536
37. Allentown: 84,293
38. Cleveland: 78,607
39. Austin: 76,408
40. Trenton: 70,272
41. Orlando: 67,832
42. Worcester: 66,488
43. Stockton: 65,403
44. Fresno: 64,225
45. Madison: 63,212
46. Reading: 61,836
47. Rochester: 60,997
48. Albany: 57,733
49. Springfield, MA: 56,107
50. St. Louis: 53,286
51. Poughkeepsie: 48,699
52. Salt Lake City: 47,020
53. Cincinnati: 46,615
54. Lancaster: 46,505
55. Tampa Bay: 43,634
56. Santa Cruz: 43,412
57. Richmond: 40,379
58. Bakersfield: 36,880
59. Manchester: 36,655
60. San Antonio: 33,299
61. Reno: 33,110
62. Harrisburg: 32,348
63. Provo: 31,825
64. Scranton: 31,525
65. State College: 28,622
66. Syracuse: 27,262
67. Modesto: 26,829
68. Ann Arbor: 26,580
69. York: 25,122
70. Boulder: 22,321
71. Champaign: 22,271
72. Charlotte: 21,929
73. Vallejo: 21,593
74. Atlantic City: 21,194
75. Lansing: 20,787
76. Laredo: 20,126

Portland does a lot better than Austin at this threshold.

Percent of MSA population living in CTs over 10,000 ppsm:

1. New York: 58.23%
2. Los Angeles: 50.07%
3. San Francisco: 43.61%
4. Honolulu: 39.55%
5. San Jose: 36.08%
6. Boston: 29.30%
7. Chicago: 27.65%
8. Salinas: 26.52%
9. Philadelphia: 25.30%
10. San Diego: 24.75%
11. Santa Barbara: 23.41%
12. Miami: 22.78%
13. Washington: 19.60%
14. Las Vegas: 19.44%
15. Providence: 18.16%
16. Trenton: 18.14%
17. Oxnard: 18.11%
18. Bridgeport: 17.85%
19. State College: 17.58%
20. Santa Cruz: 15.89%
21. Reading: 14.42%
22. Milwaukee: 14.30%
23. Buffalo: 13.55%
24. Baltimore: 13.24%
25. Seattle: 12.59%
26. New Haven: 11.13%
27. Denver: 10.79%
28. Champaign: 10.08%
29. Allentown: 9.74%
30. Madison: 9.29%
31. Manchester: 8.67%
32. Stockton: 8.49%
33. Lancaster: 8.41%
34. Springfield, MA: 8.02%
35. Atlantic City: 7.70%
36. Laredo: 7.53%
37. New Orleans: 7.51%
38. Riverside: 7.37%
39. Hartford: 7.25%
40. Poughkeepsie: 7.17%
41. Portland: 7.16%
42. Ann Arbor: 7.14%
43. Worcester: 6.95%
44. Houston: 6.94%
45. Phoenix: 6.76%
46. Boulder: 6.75%
47. Albany: 6.57%
48. Minneapolis: 6.55%
49. Fresno: 6.43%
50. Reno: 6.33%
51. Sacramento: 6.17%
52. Rochester: 5.71%
53. Scranton: 5.61%
54. York: 5.50%
55. Harrisburg: 5.47%
56. Dallas: 5.12%
57. Modesto: 4.87%
58. Vallejo: 4.76%
59. Provo: 4.74%
60. Pittsburgh: 4.12%
61. Syracuse: 4.12%
62. Bakersfield: 4.06%
63. Cleveland: 3.84%
64. Salt Lake City: 3.81%
65. Lansing: 3.78%
66. Columbus: 3.69%
67. Austin: 3.35%
68. Richmond: 3.10%
69. Detroit: 2.88%
70. Atlanta: 2.47%
71. Orlando: 2.40%
72. Cincinnati: 2.04%
73. St. Louis: 1.90%
74. Tampa Bay: 1.37%
75. San Antonio: 1.23%
76. Charlotte: 0.78%

[bobbyv]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

ChiSoxRox to the rescue once again!

He also tabulated US MSAs with at least 20K people in census tracts >10K ppsm with 2020 data.


Total MSA population living in CT's over 10,000 ppsm:

1. New York: 11,694,534
2. Los Angeles: 7,103,205
3. San Francisco: 3,019,034
4. Chicago: 2,614,012
5. Philadelphia: 1,580,169
6. Boston: 1,448,764
7. Miami: 1,398,475
8. Washington: 1,230,663
9. San Diego: 816,530
10. Seattle: 505,840
11. Houston: 495,906
12. Las Vegas: 441,510
13. Honolulu: 395,854
14. Dallas: 390,927
15. Baltimore: 375,152
16. Phoenix: 328,143
17. Denver: 315,809
18. Providence: 301,925
19. Minneapolis: 241,894
20. Milwaukee: 226,941
21. Portland: 179,612
22. Bridgeport: 168,397
23. Buffalo: 153,098
24. Atlanta: 150,542
25. Sacramento: 149,401
26. Detroit: 126,508
27. Santa Barbara: 104,916
28. New Haven: 96,281
29. New Orleans: 95,502
30. Pittsburgh: 94,694
31. Hartford: 87,780
32. Columbus: 86,536
33. Allentown: 84,293
34. Cleveland: 78,607
35. Austin: 76,408
36. Trenton: 70,272
37. Orlando: 67,832
38. Worcester: 66,488
39. Fresno: 64,225
40. Madison: 63,212
41. Reading: 61,836
42. Rochester: 60,997
43. Albany: 57,733
44. Springfield, MA: 56,107
45. St. Louis: 53,286
46. Poughkeepsie: 48,699
47. Salt Lake City: 47,020
48. Cincinnati: 46,615
49. Lancaster: 46,505
50. Tampa Bay: 43,634
51. Richmond: 40,379
52. Bakersfield: 36,880
53. Manchester: 36,655
54. San Antonio: 33,299
55. Reno: 33,110
56. Harrisburg: 32,348
57. Provo: 31,825
58. Scranton: 31,525
59. State College: 28,622
60. Syracuse: 27,262
61. Modesto: 26,829
62. Ann Arbor: 26,580
63. York: 25,122
64. Boulder: 22,321
65. Champaign: 22,271
66. Charlotte: 21,929
67. Vallejo: 21,593
68. Atlantic City: 21,194
69. Lansing: 20,787
70. Laredo: 20,126

Portland does a lot better than Austin at this threshold.

Considering greater Los Angeles and San Francisco Bay areas should not be split in to different MSA's I've added up the other areas for both regions to better reflect their true numbers. Notice how the Bay Area leaps ahead of Chicago, and Seattle now makes it in to the top 10. I was going to combine DC and Baltimore but that region does not pass the sniff test in my opinion for being one entity the way greater Los Angeles and the Bay Area are constructed.

[FromSD]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

Which is why I laughed at the "beautiful southwest Houston" part even when the commercial was new.

BTW, last I heard, that guy was developing properties in Phoenix.

I'm not familiar with Houston, but I've always heard that the westside of Houston is the upscale side. Is Gulfton just an exception to that rule? Or does the rule only apply to the portion of Houston inside the 610 beltway?

This led me to check the Wikipedia article on Gulfton. It was a pretty extensive article. Pretty impressive in its detail and pretty much an indictment of how this part of Houston got developed and then eventually declined economically.

Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson, two leftish pundits, recently came out with a new book called "Abundance," which is in large part a critique of the way Democratic-ruled cities have been managed in the post-1960s era. They cite Houston as a model of how to do things right because housing is easily built and housing costs have stayed reasonable as a result. But Gulfton, to me, is a case study in how cheap housing can have its costs. I guess in Houston's favor, though, is the fact that rents in Gulfton are relatively cheap, which isn't necessarily the case in similar neighborhoods in urban Southern California.

[JManc]

Gulfton is more SW but yea the nicest parts tend to be west of downtown inside the loop (610) with a few exceptions like Uptown/ Tanglewood, Memorial and Piney Point. Gulfton and much of Westchase are predominantly cheap apartments thrown up overnight to accommodate huge population boom in the 70's before the oil bust.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

"In BEAUTIFUL southwest Houston!" That always made/makes me laugh.

When I was a kid, it WAS quite nice, with great neighborhoods throughout. I was in that area recently, though, and what a difference. There are still nice, leafy neighborhoods with middle class residents from all over the world, but the main arterials are lined with low-rent apartment complexes having very high crime rates. When I was in high school, the many apartment complexes were home to young professionals, and were also "the place to go" to find parties on weekend nights. Partiers left their doors open and anyone could walk in uninvited. Those were good times. I don't recall going to the Gulfton area, but Bellaire Blvd and southward were the party complexes, like the Hillcroft area.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by FromSD

Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson, two leftish pundits, recently came out with a new book called "Abundance," which is in large part a critique of the way Democratic-ruled cities have been managed in the post-1960s era. They cite Houston as a model of how to do things right…

Surely they must know that Houston hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1978.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by JManc

Gulfton is more SW but yea the nicest parts tend to be west of downtown inside the loop (610) with a few exceptions like Uptown/ Tanglewood, Memorial and Piney Point. Gulfton and much of Westchase are predominantly cheap apartments thrown up overnight to accommodate huge population boom in the 70's before the oil bust.

Just a clarification...Uptown/Tanglewood, Memorial and Piney Point are upscale areas but outside the loop. When I first read your post, it sounded like they were an exception to the nice areas.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

Surely they must know that Houston hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1978.

Did you know?

A majority of the at-large elected council-members (3 of the 5) are Republican.