The US Census Bureau thread

[mhays]

The other flaw is that clicking on a tract on the map might open a neighboring tract. Apparently a few people were assigned the job of lining up the click zones with the graphical map, and they had drinking games all week. Or that's my guess.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by mhays

The other flaw is that clicking on a tract on the map might open a neighboring tract. Apparently a few people were assigned the job of lining up the click zones with the graphical map, and they had drinking games all week. Or that's my guess.

I had to zoom in A LOT just to get the right county to open up. Then zoom even more to get the tracts to open.

[Steely Dan]

Nothing is perfect when it comes to measuring population density, but IMO the single best apples to apples comparison figure we have is weighted population density by census tract for Urban Areas (gets rid of arbitrary municipal limits).

It's a shame that it's such a cumbersome data point to calculate for all cities.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

(gets rid of arbitrary municipal limits).

[craigs]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

That's partially because I only captured the central part of the map for the video. You will notice how much higher the densities are than the 8K average for the whole city. Which is my point.

I opened the map myself yesterday. More than a third of LA’s population is excluded, most notably the Valley and the harbor communities.

[Steely Dan]

UA > MSA for this, but I don't have census 2020 UA weighted densities, but here are 202 MSA weighted desires for 1M+ metros calculated by our own ChiSoxRox several years ago:



2020 weighted population density (ppsm) for US MSAs over 1 million:

1. New York: 33,787.5
2. San Francisco....13,267.8
3. Honolulu....12,581.9
4. Los Angeles....12,169.4
5. San Jose....9,075.9
6. Chicago....9,011.9
7. Boston....8,987.9
8. Miami....8,489.2
9. Philadelphia....8,258.5
10. San Diego....7,381.9
11. Washington....7,296.1
12. Las Vegas....7,031.7
13. Seattle....6,146.3
14. Denver....5,418.0
15. Providence....5,204.6
16. Baltimore....5,144.7
17. Salt Lake City....5,070.9
18. Portland....5,058.8
19. Milwaukee....5,023.7
20. Sacramento....5,002.7
21. Phoenix....4,807.7
22. Riverside....4,636.9
23. Houston....4,606.4
24. New Orleans....4,577.0
25. Fresno....4,518.4
26. Buffalo....4,348.8
27. Dallas....4,274.7
28. Detroit....3,906.9
29. Minneapolis....3,784.4
30. Cleveland....3,676.9
31. Tampa Bay....3,616.6
32. Columbus....3,605.8
33. Virginia Beach....3,580.8
34. Austin....3,565.3
35. San Antonio....3,424.0
36. Tucson....3,285.2
37. Orlando....3,275.7
38. Hartford....3,195.3
39. Pittsburgh....2,970.0
40. Rochester....2,948.2
41. St. Louis....2,738.0
42. Atlanta....2,686.4
43. Louisville....2,686.3
44. Cincinnati....2,658.2
45. Oklahoma City....2,647.3
46. Richmond....2,590.4
47. Kansas City....2,561.4
48. Indianapolis....2,457.3
49. Jacksonville....2,431.3
50. Grand Rapids....2,413.3
51. Memphis....2,339.4
52. Tulsa....2,167.3
53. Raleigh....2,166.8
54. Charlotte....1,996.1
55. Nashville....1,943.3
56. Birmingham....1,402.6

source: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...postcount=3184

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by craigs

I opened the map myself yesterday. More than a third of LA’s population is excluded, most notably the Valley and the harbor communities.

That’s why I wrote “partially.”

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by edale

What'd be most helpful in terms of understanding density in a city is the number of people living at or above certain density thresholds

That's another interesting way to look at density too.

Thankfully, ChiSoxRox also calculated that years ago using 2020 data. Below are the US MSAs with at least 20,000 people living in census tracts >20,000 ppsm.


MSAs by total population in CT's over 20,000 ppsm:

New York: 9,151,543
Los Angeles: 1,919,006
Chicago: 1,238,801
San Francisco: 899,765
Philadelphia: 841,729

Boston: 727,666
Washington: 501,510
Miami: 396,021
Honolulu: 182,167
Seattle: 160,101

San Diego: 103,421
Houston: 88,080
Baltimore: 67,095
San Jose: 64,724
Dallas: 54,893

Minneapolis: 52,998
Denver: 49,423
Milwaukee: 47,988
Bridgeport: 47,791
Providence: 39,442

Portland: 38,057
Madison: 35,514
Columbus: 31,592
Trenton: 31,210
Reading: 30,136

Allentown: 29,319
Atlanta: 26,589
Worcester: 26,374
Las Vegas: 26,114
Austin: 23,224

Champaign: 22,271
Salinas: 21,893
Phoenix: 20,351


Outside of the usual suspects at the top (where NYC is once again in another galaxy), 20,000 ppsm is a fairly rarified density level in the US. LOTS of big cities omitted from this list altogether.

[mhays]

Gotta give LA props for impressive numbers over 20,000.

[Bonsai Tree]

I absolutely love that Champaign is on this list. Anything is possible when you don't have NIMBY's to stop development, and the planning department basically OKs any new student housing within a one square mile area.

[streetscaper]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

That's another interesting way to look at density too.

Thankfully, ChiSoxRox also calculated that years ago using 2020 data. Below are the US MSAs with at least 20,000 people living in census tracts >20,000 ppsm.


MSAs by total population in CT's over 20,000 ppsm:

New York: 9,151,543
Los Angeles: 1,919,006
Chicago: 1,238,801
San Francisco: 899,765
Philadelphia: 841,729

Boston: 727,666
Washington: 501,510
Miami: 396,021
Honolulu: 182,167
Seattle: 160,101

San Diego: 103,421
Houston: 88,080
Baltimore: 67,095
San Jose: 64,724
Dallas: 54,893

Minneapolis: 52,998
Denver: 49,423
Milwaukee: 47,988
Bridgeport: 47,791
Providence: 39,442

Portland: 38,057
Madison: 35,514
Columbus: 31,592
Trenton: 31,210
Reading: 30,136

Allentown: 29,319
Atlanta: 26,589
Worcester: 26,374
Las Vegas: 26,114
Austin: 23,224

Champaign: 22,271
Salinas: 21,893
Phoenix: 20,351


Outside of the usual suspects at the top (where NYC is once again in another galaxy), 20,000 ppsm is a fairly rarified density level in the US. LOTS of big cities omitted from this list altogether.

NYC not only having the largest number, but by farrrr the largest percentage of its MSA at that density or more is what's impressive to me. Basically half the MSA

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by mhays

Gotta give LA props for impressive numbers over 20,000.

Too many people give LA shit for being low density when it’s just not.

I find the Portland number a little suspect, but it’s probably just because plenty of census tracts are very close to 20k. Slabtown and Goose Hallow have been adding a lot of units, for instance. The suburbs are also picking up steam, especially along the westside MAX.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by subterranean

Too many people give LA shit for being low density when it’s just not.

I find the Portland number a little suspect, but it’s probably just because plenty of census tracts are very close to 20k. Slabtown and Goose Hallow have been adding a lot of units, for instance. The suburbs are also picking up steam, especially along the westside MAX.

I think because its unfairly always compared to NYC. NYC is on a different level and just a much older city, built in a different time. LA is just a baby in comparison to NYC and these other giant citiies in the world.

And the neighborhoods keep getting denser because they have to.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by LA21st

I think because its unfairly always compared to NYC. NYC is on a different level and just a much older city, built in a different time. LA is just a baby in comparison to NYC and these other giant citiies in the world.

And the neighborhoods keep getting denser because they have to.

I don't see LA as a baby, its monster and in a good way.

The sheer size and consistant density over a VAST area is extremely impressive.

IMO, I see LA as the American Tokyo (or the whole metro really).

LA has untapped potential. Dallas and Houston shouldn't be seeing all the growth, LA should. Why LA isn't seeing 60000+ units per year u/c is the question I always ask.

The basin has untapped potential. I don't think its a baby at all. LA in some respects has a lot more potential than NYC due to all of the land. Megacity status. Its just... they need to build more and drive those costs down and folks will move there in droves and work on that transit situation. Untapped potential!

LA is the one U.S. city that if your flying a plane into, you feel like your entering a city galaxy and that is impressive! The street grid just never ends and to the horizon.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by subterranean

Too many people give LA shit for being low density when it’s just not.

I find the Portland number a little suspect, but it’s probably just because plenty of census tracts are very close to 20k. Slabtown and Goose Hallow have been adding a lot of units, for instance. The suburbs are also picking up steam, especially along the westside MAX.

At a high-level view Los Angeles does have better than average density for an American city/metro, but L.A. is unique among "dense" metros for where the density is located. The densest parts of Los Angeles are lower income and immigrant heavy, and I don't think there's a strong correlation between the density maps and "good urban form" in Los Angeles.

Percentage of population living in +20k ppsm census tracts by MSA (top 25ish)

1. New York - 46%
2. San Francisco - 18%
3. Boston - 15%
4. Los Angeles - 15%
5. Philadelphia - 14%
6. Chicago - 13%
7. Washington - 8%
8. Miami - 6%
9. Seattle - 4%
10. San Diego - 3%
11. Baltimore - 2%
12. Denver - 2%
13. Portland - 2%
14. Minneapolis - 1%
15. Houston - 1%
16. Dallas - 1%
17. Atlanta - 0%
18. Phoenix - 0%
19. Detroit - 0%
20. Tampa - 0%
21. Orlando - 0%
22. Charlotte - 0%
23. St Louis - 0%
24. San Antonio - 0%
25. Austin - 0%

Los Angeles is clearly among the metros with the highest concentration density, but that seems more like a coincidence than good planning on the part of Los Angeles.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by subterranean

I find the Portland number a little suspect, but it’s probably just because plenty of census tracts are very close to 20k. Slabtown and Goose Hallow have been adding a lot of units, for instance. The suburbs are also picking up steam, especially along the westside MAX.

I just clicked on all of greater Portland's tracts over 10,000 and not many were just under the line. However a big jump in in 2030 seems likely, as Portland has been adding decent infill.

The architype of early 1900s house-based cities growing quickly via infill apartments will see a lot of jumps. Portland, Denver, MSP, Atlanta, SD, SLC, Seattle, etc.

[LA21st]

Because the leadership tries to stop it. If LA ever got a Bloomberg type of mayor, it would be very different.

I think the 2026 election is going to bring a big change.

[plinko]

I suspect that the 20,351 in Phoenix are actually in Tempe but I don’t know how to look it up. Most of the dense poorer neighborhoods in Phoenix (Maryvale) are in the 8,000 range IIRC.

[Steely Dan]

^ It might also just be random suburban apartment complexes that are their own census tracts.

For example, take CT 4214.02 in Houston.

It has a population density of 52,749 ppsm!!!!!!!!

Holy shit, that's gotta be the most urban place in all of Texas!




Whoops.........

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7146...oASAFQAw%3D%3D



dense?

sure.

urban?

dear god.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by mhays

I just clicked on all of greater Portland's tracts over 10,000 and not many were just under the line. However a big jump in in 2030 seems likely, as Portland has been adding decent infill.

The architype of early 1900s house-based cities growing quickly via infill apartments will see a lot of jumps. Portland, Denver, MSP, Atlanta, SD, SLC, Seattle, etc.

It's not a lot, but there are a few:



I just used an arbitrary cutoff of 16k in the bottom list. For example, 52.01 is Goose Hollow and the West End. The land area is only .1 sq mi with a population of 2180, but several large developments have occurred there over the last few years. The Press Blocks development just completed there (341 units). Just that one project bumps the ppsm to 25,210 conservatively assuming only 1 person per residence, and there are several more in the tract built since 2020.

Downtown Beaverton and a few of the westside MAX stations could also tip into the 20k ppsm by 2030, as well as downtown Vancouver. Middle Housing legalization could bump some inner east side areas you might not expect a lot closer to 20k as well.