[Saint John] Port Development

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

This is anecdotal from people I have talked to over the years and some reports I have read, but my understanding was that there were discussions about moving all of the port facilities to the Outer Harbour [Mispec, Red Head, Lorneville, etc.] in part because the dredging costs for the Inner Harbour have always been so high due to being a river estuary (at times ~1/3 of the operating budget), to accommodate larger ships, and to move industrial development away from the core. The current Canaport facilities did end up being built, but some of the other concepts such as moving the container terminal, oil export terminal, etc. never happened for economic reasons.

Interesting thought experiment if all the port facilities were moved to Mipsec/Lorneville would we have seen the same growth with the port? Would there be a call to convert the old port to be a Fundy Quay project but on the west side? If that's the case, do we see a small commuter ferry come back? Fun thoughts.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

This is anecdotal from people I have talked to over the years and some reports I have read, but my understanding was that there were discussions about moving all of the port facilities to the Outer Harbour [Mispec, Red Head, Lorneville, etc.] in part because the dredging costs for the Inner Harbour have always been so high due to being a river estuary (at times ~1/3 of the operating budget), to accommodate larger ships, and to move industrial development away from the core. The current Canaport facilities did end up being built, but some of the other concepts such as moving the container terminal, oil export terminal, etc. never happened for economic reasons.

Thanks, that would have been quite the revolutionary change. It's interesting, because today, I don't think they'd ever consider moving the whole of port operations out there, but I could definitely see them augmenting their operations with expansion in Lorneville, Redhead, Mispec. Would be nice to see something still happen, because we're not really that far away from the #2 spot in terms of Canadian ports by total tonnage, an even the #2 spot for container volume is possible with a massive expansion.

If had to bet on any Prime Minister getting behind building such a massive expansion for the Port of Saint John... I'd bet on Mark Carney. The guy never shuts up about building stuff, and he specifically wants to increase and enhance our trading relations with the UK and the EU in a major way. The Port of Saint John is extremely well situated to help him reach that goal.

[bingun]

For those wondering about the vessel at the Diamond Jubilee Cruise Terminal this week, from Irving Oil's LinkedIn.

I assume these are like-for-like replacements of older vessels rather than an expansion of their fleet?

Welcoming the Algoma East Coast ������

We were excited to gather with representatives from the Algoma Central Corporation and other stakeholders for a special ceremony on Thursday in Saint John, NB — celebrating the addition of two new vessels to our operations.

The hulking Algoma East Coast — more than 184 metres in length and capable of carrying more than 37,000 tonnes of cargo — was berthed along the Diamond Jubilee Cruise Terminal for the event. The Algoma Acadian is expected to arrive in Saint John in June.

Both ships, representing a $127-million private investment, will service our Saint John refinery and ports across Atlantic Canada and the U.S. East Coast.

Thank you to our teams and our partners for celebrating with us.

Learn more at https://lnkd.in/gRBNu37m

[sailor734]

Still seems strange not to see an Irving front and centre at an event like that.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Still seems strange not to see an Irving front and centre at an event like that.

Guess this was a different event.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DKAaLxNi58U/?igsh=MTJ4emg1ZW9rMzZ4ZQ==

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

Originally Posted by bingun

For those wondering about the vessel at the Diamond Jubilee Cruise Terminal this week, from Irving Oil's LinkedIn.

I assume these are like-for-like replacements of older vessels rather than an expansion of their fleet?

Yeah thsee new ships are replacements for their older ships who's charter have ended and are going back to Europe. I believe these 2 New ships are replacing East Coast and Acadian.

[Ottawa]

The Saint John Express, a special paint version ES44AC (CP 8781), promoting Hapag-Lloyd, Port Saint John, DP World will be in Saint John. It passed through Greenville, Maine last Thursday so might already be here. AFAIK, this is the first time it has gone beyond Brownville Jct, ME. I believe it will remain in the city for Port Days.

It would be nice if somebody could get s good shot of it in it's namesake city with a few H-L containers in tow. I think that would deserve a spot in Hapag's photo album at https://www.hapag-lloyd.com/en/company/press/photos-videos/liner-shipping.html

[DyAm00394]

Americold has shared this rendering in a new post on social media:

"Americold is proud to break ground on our first Import-Export Hub in Canada, located at the strategic gateway of Port Saint John. This marks our sixth facility in Canada and will leverage the maritime logistics capabilities of DP World and the rail logistics solutions of Canadian Pacific Kansas City (CPKC).

We’re investing $75–80 million to develop this Import-Export Hub, which will offer ~22,000 pallet positions—the equivalent of over 800 full truckloads of temperature-sensitive goods.

Rob Chambers, President of Americas, shared “Developing this facility at Port Saint John marks an important step forward for Americold. The infrastructure investments by DP World and CPKC alongside Port Saint John have attracted major global shipping lines to this location, and we are excited that our world-class cold storage facility and value-added services will support food flows between Central and Eastern Canada, Europe and South America.”

Together with DP World and CPKC, we’re creating new value for customers across the cold chain".

Learn more in our full press release: https://ir.americold.com/press-releases/...hips-With-CPKC-and-DP-World/default.aspx

[bingun]

Has there been any big news coming out of Port Days this year?

I also saw some videos on LinkedIn.

A video from CPKC with some nice footage of the port and the new cranes.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/cpkcrail_...=ACoAAB60-LYBLJx341_6NGaWezg48llkr3M8m-Y

JDI Logistics also released a video about a project they worked on related to the Hudsongrach that was recently in the port. More great drone footage and shots from the tug boats.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jdi-logis...=ACoAAB60-LYBLJx341_6NGaWezg48llkr3M8m-Y

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

This slide seemed pretty significant

[bingun]

Some images of the site from a CTV article covering them 'breaking ground'.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/atlantic/new-brun...old-storage-facility-at-port-saint-john/

[bingun]

The TJ has some details on the anticipated timeline and uses of the facility.

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/americold-breaks-ground-on-first-import-export-hub-in-canada

The facility will play a vital role in the food supply chain with a variety of items being stored at the site.

“We expect to see fish, blueberries, potatoes, probably the potential for other proteins here,” he said. “It’ll be any sort of foods that needs frozen products, things that are imported here and then product that’s exported to Europe.”

Chambers said the goal is to see the facility operational in the late first quarter or early second quarter of 2026.

[Steelcowboy]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

The Saint John Express, a special paint version ES44AC (CP 8781), promoting Hapag-Lloyd, Port Saint John, DP World will be in Saint John. It passed through Greenville, Maine last Thursday so might already be here. AFAIK, this is the first time it has gone beyond Brownville Jct, ME. I believe it will remain in the city for Port Days.

It would be nice if somebody could get s good shot of it in it's namesake city with a few H-L containers in tow. I think that would deserve a spot in Hapag's photo album at https://www.hapag-lloyd.com/en/company/press/photos-videos/liner-shipping.html

The CP 8781 was in town last year or year prior. My question is, with these Port Days and them boasting about 3 Class 1 RR's in the mix, why isn't there a CSX locomotive present and moreso a railroad that is there everyday and brings the most tonnage to the port.. CN. I suppose its only a CPKC and NBSR type of party.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by Steelcowboy

The CP 8781 was in town last year or year prior. My question is, with these Port Days and them boasting about 3 Class 1 RR's in the mix, why isn't there a CSX locomotive present and moreso a railroad that is there everyday and brings the most tonnage to the port.. CN. I suppose its only a CPKC and NBSR type of party.

I am shocked! I would have to put that squarely on the shoulders of CN itself. If they are delivering the highest tonnage to the port, why aren't they there?

Of course it's going to feel like an NBSR/CPKC/DP World/Hapag-Lloyd party if CN is not even there! Who is responsible for promoting CN in Saint John?

Show me where CN's "Saint John Express" is. When was the last time the CN business train made a visit to Saint John? That's the difference between CN and CPKC.

CSX is spending large $$$$ fixing up their New England physical plant. They only took possession of that quagmire in 2022. They already are carrying significant new loads of mixed freight from Mattawamkeag. They have significant clearance issues in New England (neglected rail from previous owner) that they need to deal with before they can compete with CPKC for intermodal to Chicago and beyond. They are working on it. It was looking like they were going to get their line through Maine mostly up to 40 MPH this year. That might be enough to start competing for intermodal business. Then the political situation happened. So that may be up in the air at the moment. But it still feels like they are ultimately going to be in the picture.

I would like to see CN there and promoting themselves and their business interests in Saint John. CPKC only gets as close as Brownville Jct, yet they are the railroad that shows up and promotes Saint John, and helps bring businesses like DP World and Americold and Hapag-Lloyd, etc. to the city. Why couldn't CN have done that a long time ago?

Instead the approach towards the city was to just get as much as possible by threatening to pull out when there was no other rail options. They could have had the same deal (only better) that they have in Halifax, but instead it felt like they were trying to shut rail down. And the financial heart of the city with it.

Where is CN's "Saint John Express"? Other than train operators, how many employees does CN have in Saint John?

Excuse my impassioned comment, but I feel like CN has done little other than pick up what business they can by default, while leaving the economic expansion to others.

I got an invitation to Port Days just because I went to their web site. That's all it takes to go. That and several hundred bucks, but holy smokes, it promotes your business. CN is still counted as 1/3 of the rail options available to port customers. If CN wants more, they have to show up and promote their business.

[sailor734]

I think that historically Saint John was always an afterthought to CN. It was the CPR's eastern terminus while CN focused on Halifax. Perhaps that mindset continues. They will take whatever business is offered but seem to have no drive to grow their presence here.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Quite a striking difference compared to the West Side's Conservative MP, who remains so adamantly opposed to this proposal.

I wonder, if this post is a bit of a foreshadowing of future Port Saint John deepwater port expansion at Lorneville? Port Saint John is literally the first thing he said, so maybe?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

perhaps something like this? or would there also need be a pier?


These buildings are far, far bigger than the 600,000 and 200,000 square feet of building space outlined in the proposal from the two firms presented to the city for the data centre and green manufacturing facilities... but perhaps the eventual vision will be something much larger than a mere 800,000 square footprint.

[FromMaine]

CN was there with several reps, as well as a panelist. It was also posted on their social media page.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by FromMaine

CN was there with several reps, as well as a panelist. It was also posted on their social media page.

Thanks FromMaine. Since I wasn't physically at Port Days myself, I am relying on informed comments. I am truly glad to hear they were there.

[DyAm00394]

Port Saint John Giving Auto Imports A Try

“DP World says it's eyeing car imports at Port Saint John and is planning the logistics around bringing in a trial shipment of vehicles as soon as this summer.~

"We're talking with a (roll-on roll-off) operator on how to do a trial shipment into here… and it's an operator who is very interested in coming," DP World Canada CEO Doug Smith said in an interview.

The idea is for a trial within 90 days, he said, declining to name the operator.

While the port has the basic infrastructure to accommodate vehicle imports and the ships that bring them in, Saint John does not yet do so.

Still, there's opportunity for more growth in Saint John with RORO, Smith told a Port Days crowd last week.

If the port adds vehicle imports, DP World would invest as much as $10 million on a floating dock to enable offloading for RORO 24/7, he said, pointing to the tidal restrictions around water levels.

"A floating dock would give us the ability, in tide, to constantly keep running the RORO," Smith said.

Other logistical issues, including which pier RORO ships would use, are still under consideration, he added.

Jonathan Wahba, CPKC's senior VP of sales and marketing, said the railroad is quietly working with its supply chain partners to "land a RORO vessel" in Saint John and that the port has the rail capacity to handle it.

"It would mean we would have to bring in more rail cars to support the flow of outbound vehicles to Central Canada or into the U.S.," he said in an interview”.

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