CHICAGO | Da Bears | Now these shitheads wanna drive their clown car over to Indiana?

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by left of center

Best case scenario, now that Virginia has died, is that the McCaskey family sells the team to wealthy enough owners that can build a new stadium using their own equity. Own the land, the stadium and the surrounding entertainment complex outright and create a year round revenue stream. Best place for that would honestly be in the city due to existing tourism infrastructure and attractions, and the best site for that is probably Michael Reese (unless the 78 is still available if the Sox don't pursue it).

Sox at The 78 is super unlikely at this point. Chicago Fire on the other hand...

[IrishIllini]

Surprised there isn't more talk of moving to Lincoln Yards.

[cloudbod]

Every time this thread gets bumped I misread the title as "New Doomed Lakefront Stadium Proposal" and, well... yeah.

[eaguir3]

Originally Posted by left of center

South Works is too far south and too far from downtown for the Bears to seriously consider. The remediation efforts would be prohibitively expensive as well, as you mentioned. Considering the team is already begging for public funds to build their new stadium, I got to imagine that moving there is a non starter. Michael Reese is probably just as easily accessible from the downtown commuter stations as SF currently is, given how its a bit of a clusterf*ck to get to, even though its positioned much closer to the Loop and right by Grant Park. I could see them running shuttles to/from the Red & Green Lines at 35th, as well as Metra Electric (either a new station by the new stadium or utilizing an existing station like 27th St).

Best case scenario, now that Virginia has died, is that the McCaskey family sells the team to wealthy enough owners that can build a new stadium using their own equity. Own the land, the stadium and the surrounding entertainment complex outright and create a year round revenue stream. Best place for that would honestly be in the city due to existing tourism infrastructure and attractions, and the best site for that is probably Michael Reese (unless the 78 is still available if the Sox don't pursue it).

But I still fear that the most likely outcome, whether the team is sold or not, will be AH.

People will likely only drive to the Arlington Heights location. Metra takes an hour to get there from the Loop. They can also forget about any public funding if they move to Arlington Heights. It's starting to seem as though they are okay with that. At least Michael Reese and South Works would get Springfield funding. I'm sure there are other reasons why many Bears fans wouldn't want it on the south side also.

[eaguir3]

Originally Posted by twister244

As much as I hate to say this - Screw the Bears.

They created this problem, and it's completely on them to pony up the money to build a shiny new stadium. Related absolutely should not sell land to them so they can just sit on it like they did with Arlington Park. That's land that has a lot of opportunity with respect to the Quantum Park being built out. So..... No on the South Works move.

If the Bears wanna come to a middle ground and get creative with a solution that works for everyone - Great, I'm all ears. But so far, they keep whoring themselves around from one politician/developer to the next blowing a kiss, only to turn around and ask $3 billion for the full package.

There’s also the plot of land the US Army Corps is cleaning up at the mouth of the Calumet River at Lake Michigan, just north of Calumet Park. It’s currently city property. But again it’s too far south.

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by ardecila

It's a great plan, so of course it's probably DOA.

I would do a more angular stadium design for Michael Reese more like Minneapolis, the roundboi doesn't work as well in the middle of a mixed-use development versus on the lakeshore. And this plan would take out the Walter Gropius building, so ideally they pay for it to be moved. But this seems like the best option we've seen so far.

I love the plan as well. To me it always seemed to make most sense to put such a stadium on the north end of the site, and have an entertainment and residential district to the south.

I also think that the stadium would be served better with the giant opening facing east out onto the lake rather than facing north (which would be mostly obscured anyway from that distance and with MP in view).

That said, I love the idea, especially the land bridge connecting the stadium to the lakefront.

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by eaguir3

People will likely only drive to the Arlington Heights location. Metra takes an hour to get there from the Loop. They can also forget about any public funding if they move to Arlington Heights.

Metra would probably add express trains for game days from Ogilvie (and Clyborne and Irving Park), which is much faster than driving and parking in heavy traffic.

But the Bears should forget about public funding entirely. This is from a year ago, any update on these figures?

As of 2024, there is still more than $620 million in outstanding debt for the Soldier Field renovations and about $50 million for the Guaranteed Rate Field renovations.

The public would also foot the bill for the proposed $1.5 billion in infrastructure improvements,

https://www.courthousenews.com/chicago-b...dwinds-on-4-7-billion-new-stadium-pitch/

Indeed, records obtained from the ISFA show that after the initial bond issue in 2001, no payments on the principal were made until 2008, and that during those intervening years more than $51 million in interest was paid. The way the deal was designed, principal payments would not exceed interest until 2030, just two years before the loan was scheduled to be retired.

The grand total for what the public was told would be $387 million in bonds? $1.19 billion.

“In retrospect, no one would basically have done the financing the way the Sports Facilities Authority has done it,” Msall said. “Because what is coming home to roost is the back loading of that debt.”

https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigation...n-2002-soldier-field-renovation/2981068/


The Bears should not be eligible for one dime of public money until the last renovation is fully paid off. What is the plan for that? We keep paying for a stadium that no longer exists?

[ardecila]

Metra obviously has big needs and serving football fans is not high on the list, but with a medium-sized public investment it should be possible to through-run trains on Sundays from BNSF or the Milwaukee District over to Soldier Field or Michael Reese site.

This could be part of a state deal for public financing for a new stadium, but it would also lay the groundwork for a more robust crosstown service that runs all the time. And it would probably be similar in cost to the new interchange on DLSD that the Bears want.

[twister244]

Looks the Bears are pivoting towards AH.....

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/commerci...mpaign=Newsletter-breaking-news-20250516

While the team has not completely shut down its effort to build a new home downtown, a source close to the matter said the Bears have paused their city project amid clear messages from elected officials spurning the prospect of taxpayer funds for a lakefront stadium.

However, it is still very uncertain on exactly what a AH stadium would look like since Springfield is very cold on the idea of providing any help to the Bears, regardless of wherever they put a stadium:

The bigger obstacle in the Bears' Arlington Heights effort is in Springfield. The team has said it would only proceed with a privately-funded suburban stadium project if it could secure taxpayer help to finance a mixed-use portion of the campus next to it. The centerpiece of that effort is proposed state legislation that would allow the team to negotiate with local taxing bodies on future property tax payments.

“No,” Rep. Kam Buckner, D-Chicago, said flatly when asked if there’s any version of a state bill he and others in the Chicago delegation would consider to help the team move to Arlington Heights.

My guess is what eventually happens is the Bears ponies up the money to build a massive stadium at the AH site surrounded by a wasteland of parking..... With no real tie-in to infrastructure, transit, or mixed use development.

And if that's what happens, better out in AH than in the city.

[aaron38]

AH isn't going to let that happen, the site is huge, 326 acres. The Bears can't use all of that, nor would they want to.
I think they will go with something very similar to the image in this report.

Site plan of the Bears conceptual masterplan by Hart Howerton Architects

https://chicagoyimby.com/2022/09/bears-r...potential-arlington-heights-complex.html
https://patch.com/illinois/arlingtonheig...-arlington-park-plan-could-take-10-years

I would support this. The stadium and its acres of parking are tucked up by the interstate where they should be, along with fields for tailgating. There will be lots of open space simply because Salt Creek that drains much of Palatine flows through the middle of the site and more stormwater retention is needed. Some of that could probably also be tailgating/picnic space when it's dry.

The existing Metra station gets an entertainment district that leads up to the stadium. The center of the site can be quite dense, stepping down to the east and the existing SFH neighborhoods across Wilke.

[IrishIllini]

Could get interesting if Lincoln Yards were an option again - just north of the Home Depot gets you access of the Kennedy. Metra and CTA close enough. Also opportunity for the water taxi to get people there if the river is navigable.

[aaron38]

Speaking of infrastructure, I-53 is getting rebuilt from Schaumburg to Lake County, right past the AH site. The Euclid bridge eastbound is already stripped down to the girders. They're not wasting any time. 2026 completion.
https://www.vah.com/government/departments/public_works/il_53_project_.php

[twister244]

Originally Posted by aaron38

AH isn't going to let that happen, the site is huge, 326 acres. The Bears can't use all of that, nor would they want to.
I think they will go with something very similar to the image in this report.


https://chicagoyimby.com/2022/09/bears-r...potential-arlington-heights-complex.html
https://patch.com/illinois/arlingtonheig...-arlington-park-plan-could-take-10-years

I would support this. The stadium and its acres of parking are tucked up by the interstate where they should be, along with fields for tailgating. There will be lots of open space simply because Salt Creek that drains much of Palatine flows through the middle of the site and more stormwater retention is needed. Some of that could probably also be tailgating/picnic space when it's dry.

The existing Metra station gets an entertainment district that leads up to the stadium. The center of the site can be quite dense, stepping down to the east and the existing SFH neighborhoods across Wilke.

Ok, But who is gonna pay for all of the infrastructure to support this?..... That's the crux here. The Bears seem to be ok with ponying up the money for the stadium, but who's gonna pay for infrastructure to support the additional traffic games, new Metra routes to support the amount of passenger numbers for NFL games and special events, etc, etc?

Great, 53 is getting resurfaced, but are they rebuilding the NW Highway interchange to handle the traffic for games?

This is why I'm keeping my expecations low. I could easily see a compromise where just enough money gets approved for the bare bones infrastructure upgrades to handle the traffic games/events, and that's it. you get a big fat stadium surrounded by a sea of parking lots that is empty 99% of the year.

If you want a preview - https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7438849,...MDUxNS4wIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDU1SAFQAw%3D%3D is what it looks like at the Broncos stadium in Denver.

I lived walking distance to this for a few years in Denver, and it looked like that... all the time.... aside from games.

[dreamy-developer]

Originally Posted by twister244

Ok, But who is gonna pay for all of the infrastructure to support this?..... That's the crux here. The Bears seem to be ok with ponying up the money for the stadium, but who's gonna pay for infrastructure to support the additional traffic games, new Metra routes to support the amount of passenger numbers for NFL games and special events, etc, etc?

Great, 53 is getting resurfaced, but are they rebuilding the NW Highway interchange to handle the traffic for games?

This is why I'm keeping my expecations low. I could easily see a compromise where just enough money gets approved for the bare bones infrastructure upgrades to handle the traffic games/events, and that's it. you get a big fat stadium surrounded by a sea of parking lots that is empty 99% of the year.

If you want a preview - https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7438849,...MDUxNS4wIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDU1SAFQAw%3D%3D is what it looks like at the Broncos stadium in Denver.

I lived walking distance to this for a few years in Denver, and it looked like that... all the time.... aside from games.

I would speak on both sides here that I would agree on not getting our hopes up with the addition of any surrounding infrastructure - I think all the Bears care about is to make the venue/stadium a multi-purpose to bring in additional revenue (like practically every stadium in the world is doing and figuring out). And they possibily don't care as much as to what goes around it, as long as they can put butts in seats all year round, it wouldn't be totally out of the norm as us Americans haven't gotten with the program to do what Wrigley, Fenway Park and now the United Center have done/are doing, especially with the Bears strapped for cash, I too wouldn't get my hopes up.

But there is a side to me that does believe they are at least surveying and heavily considering what it would take to add such additions, I mean - it's not like the European/Wrigley/Fenway Park model isn't being adopted elsewhere in the U.S. clearly Reinsdorf and his surrounding committee see that vision and so I'd have to imagine (clearly from the past renderings) that the Bears see it too. But I'd also think that even if they do promise for such development to happen - it's dead last priority for them. They'll announce they "plan" to add a bar scene with shops and other attractions... and it'll be years if not decades away until they do so. Who knows, they could surprise us and do it all.

[ardecila]

You don't need all that much infrastructure for a stadium, if you're smart about it. Big stadiums like this have 9 home games a year plus the occasional concert, playoff game, or traveling event, probably in use only 30-45 days out of the year max. People will adapt.

Green Bay manages to get everybody into Lambeau with no special infrastructure, no transit and surprisingly little parking, it's about a mile from the freeway and there's really only one freeway exit to use. Or look at any college town with a big football stadium, same deal.

AH can set up a program with cops and traffic aides to prioritize stadium traffic and deter cut-throughs in surrounding neighborhoods. Pace and private companies can step up to run shuttles to remote parking (Harper College, etc) or even other parts of Chicagoland (Naperville/Aurora, Oak Brook, etc).

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by twister244

but who's gonna pay for infrastructure to support the additional traffic games, new Metra routes to support the amount of passenger numbers for NFL games and special events, etc, etc?

Great, 53 is getting resurfaced, but are they rebuilding the NW Highway interchange to handle the traffic for games?

What new infrastructure? That's the whole point of the AH location. Most games will be on Sunday. Metra is tripple tracked there. Just run basically the normal weekday commuter schedule. No new rolling stock, no new routes.

All of the 53 interchanges are getting rebuilt. NW HWY won't be the primary interchange, because the Metra tracks block access. Cars will exit onto Euclid east and turn north into the parking lots.
What would be a good use for NW HWY is busses. They can go west to Rohlwing and turn into the little used Commuter Dr. that goes to the Metra station and would be perfect for dropping folks off right at the stadium. Those can be the shuttle busses, also from area hotels, maybe also downtown Palatine and AH.
I'd be surprised if there were more than 10,000 cars per game.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by aaron38

What new infrastructure? That's the whole point of the AH location. Most games will be on Sunday. Metra is tripple tracked there. Just run basically the normal weekday commuter schedule. No new rolling stock, no new routes.

All of the 53 interchanges are getting rebuilt. NW HWY won't be the primary interchange, because the Metra tracks block access. Cars will exit onto Euclid east and turn north into the parking lots.
What would be a good use for NWY is busses. They can go west to Rohlwing and turn into the little used Commuter Dr. that goes to the Metra station and would be perfect for dropping folks off right at the stadium. Those can be the shuttle busses, also from area hotels, maybe also downtown Palatine and AH.
I'd be surprised if there were more than 10,000 cars per game.

Ok, but again - You need to build infrastructure to make this work. If you are advocating for the Euclid interchange access point, there will need to be roadway infrastructure going from Euclid up to the new stadium. Also, people are still going to need to get in from the NW Highway area, so money will be needed there as well. This is all before even talking about any infrastructure to support the mixed use development surrounding the stadium.

I'm not saying it won't happen..... I'm just expecting the path of least resistance to get a stadium up that the Bears can pack as many people in as possible. They will swoon AH with all sorts of numbers on economic impacts a new stadium will bring to help facilitate investments in the roads to make it happen while the Bears will pony up the money to build a stadium knowing the political atmosphere to get the subsidies for a huge development are out of the question.

If the Bears truly cared about a large master plan to create a cool integrated stadium neighborhood, they wouldn't be trying to extract as much money from taxpayers as possible for a new stadium. They want to spend as little as possible while getting the biggest stadium up they can so they can 🞵🞵🞵🞵 money out of people for watching the Bears continue to not make it to the Super Bowl.

It's no coincidence that the Bears are now all onboard with the AH site now that they know for sure Springfield won't give them a penny for something in the city.

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by twister244

Ok, but again - You need to build infrastructure to make this work. If you are advocating for the Euclid interchange access point, there will need to be roadway infrastructure going from Euclid up to the new stadium. Also, people are still going to need to get in from the NW Highway area, so money will be needed there as well. This is all before even talking about any infrastructure to support the mixed use development surrounding the stadium.

No. Look at the site plan I posted. Rohlwing road already exists from Euclid going north. It is 0.3mi to the site. I'm pretty sure the Bears can manage that.

No one "needs" to get in from the NW corner of NW HWY. That's where the busses and taxis go in. If anyone wants to walk in from my old neighborhood there they can cross at Rohlwing and walk down Commuter Dr. A bike path costs nothing, hardly the modern definition of "infrastructure". We're not digging down 6 stories and relocating utilities for 3 years.

Finally the mixed use development can pay for itself. How did AH and Palatine grow in the first place? Towns figured it out before, they can do it again without state funding. Lay out a street grid, lay some pipe, zone the land. This is Sim City 1 on vacant land. If this is hard, I'm disappointed.

[Danillo]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Green Bay manages to get everybody into Lambeau with no special infrastructure, no transit and surprisingly little parking, it's about a mile from the freeway and there's really only one freeway exit to use. Or look at any college town with a big football stadium, same deal.

Can confirm. The Packers also managed to build up the Titletown District without major handouts. No reason the Bears couldn't or wouldn't be able to do the same.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Danillo

Can confirm. The Packers also managed to build up the Titletown District without major handouts. No reason the Bears couldn't or wouldn't be able to do the same.

Yes, but the Packers are an extremely well run organization, top to bottom, whereas the Bears organization is more akin to a slow-motion, decades-long trainwreck.