Downtown Vancouver Updates II

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

With almost no condo parking space because they have to replace the Bay Parkade's 500 spaces with a future underground public parkade.

Nah they'll just add it on. Your parking space will be on P18.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Nah they'll just add it on. Your parking space will be on P18.

That's not what they've submitted if The Hive piece is correct: "There would also be replacement public parking capacity within the project’s underground parkade, offsetting the loss of the existing parkade. Henriquez shared that due to a legal agreement with the property owner of the Hudson’s Bay department store building, they are required to incorporate 500 public parking stalls — in addition to the parking to support the new complex’s uses. However, they intend to minimize the amount of parking, given that this is a highly optimal transit-oriented development that promises to make a significant investment in improving the accessibility and usability of the subway station."

[mcj]

Look at them proposing all the social housing components at a completely separate site that they can sit on for decades without doing anything. How's Little Mountain progressing again?

[Spr0ckets]

Colour me skeptical that this will ever see the light of day, or (....if it does, it....) gets built as proposed here, and certainly not at the numbers being thrown here.

It definitely looks impressive though, ....and it's most certainly bold.

And therein lies the rub...
(for me at least)

Most of the features and the things being proposed in it seem almost "engineered" as the sort of things that tend kill projects - especially in this city.

If it does get built like that, and at that height, it will become the landmark tower project not just for the province or the west coast, but I'd even go as far as say for the entire Pacific Northwest.

I'm open to changing my tune when the figurative shovels hit the ground for excavation, and then again when the cranes get erected.


EDIT :

Case in point :-

Holborn Head Honcho, Tiah.....

"Tiah emphasized that the exact design, functionality, and layout of the observation deck will be refined further during the upcoming development application stage. "

Read : 'Massive levels of Value-Engineering incoming, and you'll be lucky to end up with any observation deck at all'.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by mcj

Look at them proposing all the social housing components at a completely separate site that they can sit on for decades without doing anything. How's Little Mountain progressing again?

Pretty much all the replacement social housing on Little Mountain has now been completed. The first condos are just coming to market. I assume the City would place a standard requirement that the occupancy permit for the strata units on the parkade site would only be issued on completion and legal handover of the social housing tower.

[GenWhy?]

That's why I find this quite funny as well that 500 public parking stalls have to be retained from not only a 20-year-old deal, but a deal with a now defunct department store that is no longer using the parking! This will be good for the HBC building because they'd be able to re-build and not have to worry about on-site parking (if various future tenants really want it) - aside from being held to Holborn's construction timelines.

I do not disagree, however, that having 500 public access stalls remain is a bad thing. Good turn over for parking is good.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

That's why I find this quite funny as well that 500 public parking stalls have to be retained from not only a 20-year-old deal, but a deal with a now defunct department store that is no longer using the parking! This will be good for the HBC building because they'd be able to re-build and not have to worry about on-site parking (if various future tenants really want it) - aside from being held to Holborn's construction timelines.

I do not disagree, however, that having 500 public access stalls remain is a bad thing. Good turn over for parking is good.

I guess the question is, how full is that lot on a daily basis now? If it's regularly full, the City should enforce the replacement. If not, maybe a partial replacement, etc.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Pretty much all the replacement social housing on Little Mountain has now been completed. The first condos are just coming to market. I assume the City would place a standard requirement that the occupancy permit for the strata units on the parkade site would only be issued on completion and legal handover of the social housing tower.

Not to mention just way more practical to build social housing in its own separate lot / building. Wouldn't be crazy to see the social housing building be able to go up 1st before all the other towers. Just because it's "social housing" doesn't mean it's welfare rates only or won't get some grants etc.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I guess the question is, how full is that lot on a daily basis now? If it's regularly full, the City should enforce the replacement. If not, maybe a partial replacement, etc.

I understand that the City would have zero say

[mcj]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Pretty much all the replacement social housing on Little Mountain has now been completed. The first condos are just coming to market. I assume the City would place a standard requirement that the occupancy permit for the strata units on the parkade site would only be issued on completion and legal handover of the social housing tower.

Good to know it's finally pretty much completed at Little Mountain. Hopefully the city has the care and foresight to do that, Holborn has burned their trust.

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Not to mention just way more practical to build social housing in its own separate lot / building. Wouldn't be crazy to see the social housing building be able to go up 1st before all the other towers. Just because it's "social housing" doesn't mean it's welfare rates only or won't get some grants etc.

Yeah the proposal makes sense, but the way we've seen promises like this transpire with Holborn (and Concord Pacific too), I'm going to remain skeptical of this benefit until construction on it starts.

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I understand that the City would have zero say

Who is enforcing the covenant then? HBC is defunct.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by mcj

Who is enforcing the covenant then? HBC is defunct.

The Rio-Can and the other future owner of their JV.

[Migrant_Coconut]

So this is why they let the hotel fall apart.

And yeah, let's not get too excited, given Holborn's track record in the rest of the city.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Changing City

No, phase 1 is the condo towers (and the DTES non-market tower as CAC/Dunsmuir House replacement). They're not actually proposing to build the required commercial space for the site in the first phase (except some modest retail and restaurant space in the podium). After what happened at Little Mountain, and with Dunsmuir House, I'm not sure I'd accept their promise for a future hotel.

And yes, this needs its own thread.

Dunsmuir House has already been replaced. There is no requirement to replace it a second time.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

So this is why they let the hotel fall apart.

And yeah, let's not get too excited, given Holborn's track record in the rest of the city.

The project went for redrafting after Dunsmuir was condemned.

The city imo was equally responsible for delays. Holborn seemingly has decided to try to force the issue by going public with this iteration of the proposal, not content to sit at the staff level and be recommended for rejection due to a planner's preferences.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Dunsmuir House has already been replaced. There is no requirement to replace it a second time.

Yes there is. It was still run as an SRO by Holborn, until they decided not to maintain it some years ago. The fact that the Salvation Army sold it to Holborn and built a new facility didn't extinguish the SRO Rooms at Dunsmuir House. The situation was discussed recently when the City approved the emergency demolition of Dunsmuir House.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Holborn seemingly has decided to try to force the issue by going public with this iteration of the proposal, not content to sit at the staff level and be recommended for rejection due to a planner's preferences.

My understanding was previously only compliant rezonings would become public, go before Council. Now (due to a recent change a few years ago) Staff have to process and present at Public Hearing on-compliant rezonings. Which is a huge drain on Staff, but I blame "the system" for that

[griswold]

NIMBYs in shambles

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The project went for redrafting after Dunsmuir was condemned.

The city imo was equally responsible for delays. Holborn seemingly has decided to try to force the issue by going public with this iteration of the proposal, not content to sit at the staff level and be recommended for rejection due to a planner's preferences.

No reason Holborn couldn't have at least done repairs in the meantime. I'm hardly a fan of the hotel, but between them underpaying property tax on it for literal decades and the previous stunt with Little Mountain, I'm spotting a pattern.

[logan5]

Is Vancouver getting its swagger back? There’s no reason why this wouldn’t work here, from an economic feasibility standpoint.

[seamusmcduff]

Yeah I wouldn't trust letting Holborn complete required items in future phases given their track record.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by mcj

Look at them proposing all the social housing components at a completely separate site that they can sit on for decades without doing anything. How's Little Mountain progressing again?

Yeah, if this ever goes ahead there need to be ironclad deliverables with a timeline for them.