Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

Soyons francs, si on cherche le vrai responsable de la "dynamique" croissance de Mtl et du Québec en général (qui fait d'ailleurs déborder nos écoles, nos hôpitaux et notre parc immobilier...) c'est vraiment plus du côté d'Ottawa qu'il faut regarder!

Oui, mais si vraiment la gestion de Legault était catastrophique et empêchait le développement de Montréal, on n'aurait pas 353.000 habitants de plus en 6 ans à Montréal sous son mandat, on aurait à peine 100.000 habitants de plus comme à Winnipeg, ou 77.000 habitants de plus comme à Halifax.

Legault n'est pas responsable de l'immigration démentielle du Canada, mais il n'a pas non plus pénalisé Montréal quand on compare aux autres grandes métropoles canadiennes. Donc au pire si on ne l'aime pas on dira que sa gestion est neutre, et au mieux si on l'apprécie on dira qu'elle a dynamisé le Québec. La vérité est sûrement entre les deux. Mais ce qui est impossible par contre c'est de dire que sa politique aurait pénalisé la croissance du Québec ou de Montréal.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Est-ce que les services d'urgence parlent en français aux francophones en Ontario ? Si Acajack était encore là il aurait sûrement beaucoup à dire sur le sujet...

If they speak French I'm sure they'd have no problem speaking French.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

If they speak French I'm sure they'd have no problem speaking French.

En français on dit : "Si ma tante en avait, on l'appellerait mon oncle". Cherche le sens dans le dictionnaire.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

En français on dit : "Si ma tante en avait, on l'appellerait mon oncle". Cherche le sens dans le dictionnaire.

There are people who speak French in Ontario...

Do you think the behaviour of the paramedic in Montreal was appropriate?

[lio45]

NB, j'adore l'expression mais de nos jours il semble que la tante pourrait simplement déclarer se sentir oncle... donc elle (l'expression, pas la tante) a perdu un peu de son "punch" du bon vieux temps à cause de ça (même si le concept est encore limpide et que cette expression en est un excellent exemple!)

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

There are people who speak French in Ontario...

Ce n'est pas ce qu'avait dit Acajack il y a quelques mois... Et je pense qu'il connaît bien mieux la situation en Nord Ontario que toi ou moi.

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Do you think the behaviour of the paramedic in Montreal was appropriate?

Arrête de propager des légendes urbaines ridicules.

La politique du gouvernement du Québec en matière de santé est claire :
https://www.quebec.ca/sante/systeme-et-s.../services-population-expression-anglaise

Là aussi, Acajack (et d'autres forumeurs québécois) ont déjà expliqué à plusieurs reprises que les services publics au Québec peuvent être dispensés en anglais si les agents locaux ont une connaissance de l'anglais. Vous avez d'ailleurs de la chance, parce qu'en Flandre par exemple les services publics sont OBLIGATOIREMENT en néerlandais, même si les agents locaux savent parler français ou anglais ils ont interdiction de répondre en français ou en anglais (et des policiers flamands de la langue inspectent pour vérifier que l'interdiction d'utiliser le français ou d'autres langues que le néerlandais est bien respectée), donc le Québec est un paradis pour les anglophones en comparaison !

[harls]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Est-ce que les services d'urgence parlent en français aux francophones en Ontario ?

https://hopitalmontfort.com/

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by harls

https://hopitalmontfort.com/

Montfort is a very good hospital. They also operate a community health service in the Ottawa suburb of Orleans. It is called the Aline-Chretien Health Hub.

However, The Ottawa Hospital and the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario also offer emergency room service in French. They are visited by several patients from the Gatineau , Quebec area as well as from the Ottawa area.

All the mentioned hospitals are teaching hospitals affiliated with the University of Ottawa. You can get an MD degree or a Nursing Degree or a Health Administration Degree at uOttawa and do the whole degree in French, or English or a combo if you prefer. There is also a new degree in Pharmacy that is taught only in French, in order to combat a shortage of French speaking pharmacists in Ontario.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by harls

https://hopitalmontfort.com/

Oh yeah ! The only French speaking hospital in Ontario. The one they tried to close 25 years ago without being called racist in the ROC. If Québec tried to close all English speaking hospitals, can you imagine the outrage?

[kwoldtimer]

But the thread is about Quebec, not Ontario. The what abouts always miss the main point.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

For unilingual anglophone Quebeckers living in Montreal? The CAQ have gone out of there way to make it difficult for Anglophones to receive any government services in English, or even something as serious as interacting with paramedics.

• Video Link

It's one thing when the CAQ makes it harder for Anglos to deal with the government... but it's beyond the pale when paramedics who can speak English refuse to speak English to people in medical crisis, because they feel emboldened by the anti English policies and outlook of the CAQ.

There's just no defence to taking the anti English stuff this far... it just makes the CAQ look bad. Why can't they focus on constructive ways to protect and promote the French language, without looking like utter fools? Moderating slogans on busses or not letting paramedics speak English to people experiencing a medical crisis doesn't make the CAQ look like defenders of the French language... it just makes them look petty, vindictive, and callous.

Montreal is absolutely being held back by the language laws, and it's a crying shame many Canadians won't even consider moving to Montreal, when it's one of Canada's very best cities... but the province refuses to let Montreal embrace its inherent bilingualism... and that's a crying shame.

Other posters already responded the the nonsense that Anglophones are not allowed to be treated in English. From memory, I saw a poll showing the percentage of bilingual healthcare professionals in Québec and it went from 53 % among nurses to 89 % for doctors, and everything in between for others. What percentage of health professionals in the ROC speak French (at least well enough to dispense heath services)?

Also, here is an article about a patient who couldn't receive care in French at a Montréal hospital. I couldn't find any article in English while it was so easy to find one about the topic you posted a link to. Weird that a case of a person who cannot have services in English in a French speaking province is national news and raises outrage nationwide while a case about person who cant receive services in French in the same French speaking province isn't even newsworthy in English media. I wonder how big the outrage would be if a French speaking person couldn't receive services in French in the ROC...

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2022/1...t%20une%20rupture%20d'an%C3%A9vrisme.

Oh, and how is Montréal held back? Are you suggesting that we just switch all to English to adapt to newcomers in the hope of attracting more people? You need French to integrate in Québec as you need English to integrate in the ROC.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

But the thread is about Quebec, not Ontario. The what abouts always miss the main point.

1) I was responding to a post mentioning Montfort Hospital.

2) The thread in called "Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity", which includes the French language across Canada.

3) There seems to have a double standards in Canada concerning the treatment of linguistic minorities which always blame Québec for never doing enough for Anglophones while giving a free pass to other provinces.

[New Brisavoine]

L'édito du Devoir au sujet des élections de lundi. Des mots forts !

Le Bloc ébranlé, mais toujours utile

Le Devoir
Editorial
27 avril 2025

Dans un univers médiatique en perpétuelle évolution, Le Devoir demeure attaché à certaines traditions. Les élections fédérales nous servent de prétexte pour réaffirmer les valeurs de notre institution, engagée depuis 115 ans dans la réflexion sur l’avancement de la nation québécoise, singulière par sa langue, sa culture et les institutions qu’elles ont engendrées.

https://www.ledevoir.com/opinion/editoriaux/872134/bloc-ebranle-mais-toujours-utile?

Nous n’avons pas la prétention de vous dire pour qui voter aujourd’hui, mais nous jugeons important d’analyser la campagne et les promesses à l’aune des intérêts du Québec.

Mark Carney parle encore trop mal le français pour un homme qui caresse des ambitions politiques depuis tant d’années. Il connaît peu le Québec, il fera peu de cas du respect de ses compétences, il pourfendra la loi 96 en disant appuyer le français. Pourtant, les Québécois semblent prêts à lui faire confiance pour gérer les prochaines étapes délicates de notre relation économique et diplomatique avec les États-Unis. Enlevez le président Donald Trump de l’équation et l’enjeu principal des élections serait complètement différent.

C’est frustrant pour le Bloc québécois, méthodique dans son approche, exemplaire dans la stratégie mesurée que M. Blanchet a proposée pour surmonter la guerre tarifaire en protégeant les fleurons économiques du Québec, la diversité d’expression culturelle et la gestion de l’offre. Cette voix est encore et toujours nécessaire à la Chambre des communes pour que le débat politique ne s’arrête pas aux intérêts de Calgary ou de Toronto.

Pour l’essentiel, les libéraux ont fait maison commune avec le Nouveau Parti démocratique (NPD) de Jagmeet Singh pour faire basculer le Canada dans un projet de progressisme expansionniste faisant peu de cas du respect des compétences du Québec.

Qu’on en revienne, une fois pour toutes, de ce misérabilisme nous renvoyant à la condition de porteurs d’eau. Les Québécois n’ont pas résolu l’énigme de leur place dans la Confédération, mais ils se sont certainement affranchis du poids de l’oppression dans les six décennies qui ont suivi la Révolution tranquille.

Avec la lutte contre les changements climatiques, le principe de rigueur budgétaire sera le grand perdant du scrutin de lundi.

Les deux principales formations ont déposé des cadres financiers rédigés à l’encre rouge pour des années à venir.

Le NPD, le PLC et le PCC ont entretenu le même récit féerique où il est possible de diminuer les impôts de la classe moyenne, de bonifier les services publics et de juguler le déficit à moyen terme. À toutes les époques, ce fut toujours un peu la semaine des quatre jeudis en campagne électorale. Cette approche peut séduire et aveugler l’électeur l’instant d’un printemps, mais elle contribue à alimenter le cynisme et la méfiance à l’égard des institutions démocratiques lorsque des décisions arides s’imposent par nécessité à un gouvernement nouvellement élu.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

But the thread is about Quebec, not Ontario. The what abouts always miss the main point.

Doesn't miss the point at all, which is that if Ontario can try to close Montfort, why couldn't we too try to close our remaining English hospitals? "Do as I say, not as I do" isn't acceptable

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

1) I was responding to a post mentioning Montfort Hospital.

2) The thread in called "Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity", which includes the French language across Canada.

3) There seems to have a double standards in Canada concerning the treatment of linguistic minorities which always blame Québec for never doing enough for Anglophones while giving a free pass to other provinces.

There's the issue. It's not a double standard, it's two different realities. People tend to extend Official Bilingualism into cross-Canada parallels that simply don't exist.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

There's the issue. It's not a double standard, it's two different realities. People tend to extend Official Bilingualism into cross-Canada parallels that simply don't exist.

And that's the problem with you guys, you try to extend bilingualism where it doesn't exist. Quebec is officially unilingual.

I would never dare expect service in French at a Toronto hospital. Anglos ("Anglo-Saxons" if you prefer ) should adjust their expectations too if they want to get healthcare in Quebec. They're already the world's most spoiled minority group right now, wouldn't be the end of the world if they lost a few privileges IMO. Either quit whining or move away (and good riddance).

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by lio45

And that's the problem with you guys, you try to extend bilingualism where it doesn't exist. Quebec is officially unilingual.

I don't expect service in French at a Toronto hospital. Anglos ("Anglo-Saxons" if you prefer ) should adjust their expectations too if they want to get healthcare in Quebec. They're already the world's most spoiled minority group right now, wouldn't be the end of the world if they lost a few privileges IMO.

And still, Québec offers first classe services in English.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

There's the issue. It's not a double standard, it's two different realities. People tend to extend Official Bilingualism into cross-Canada parallels that simply don't exist.

The realities are that French is threatened in North America while English isn't. You may not like how we fight for French but if Franco-Canadians in the West fought like that, French would not have been systematically marginalized in Western Canada in the XIX th and XX th centuries.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

And still, Québec offers first classe services in English.

First class is debatable, and, I think an exaggeration.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Also, here is an article about a patient who couldn't receive care in French at a Montréal hospital. I couldn't find any article in English while it was so easy to find one about the topic you posted a link to. Weird that a case of a person who cannot have services in English in a French speaking province is national news and raises outrage nationwide while a case about person who cant receive services in French in the same French speaking province isn't even newsworthy in English media. I wonder how big the outrage would be if a French speaking person couldn't receive services in French in the ROC...

Things like this happen to anglophones in NB too, even if it is a majority English province.

I recall a case several years ago where an accused murderer chose to have his case heard in French (he was bilingual), which is his right, but, his victim was English, and, the court refused to appoint a translator for the victims family during the court proceedings. The rights of the accused were respected, but, not the rights of the victim. Was this fair???

There is an official language commissioner in NB who hears complaints about lack of service in both English and French. Most of the complaints of course are from francophones. but, a not insignificant number of complaints are also from anglophones, especially regarding the provision of English language services by the provinces francophone health care authority. Both authorities are required to provide bilingual services because there is not complete geographic overlap. There are unilingual francophone health care providers in NB. These things happen.