Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[MolsonExport]

I knew exactly one person named French (surname). She grew up a few blocks away from where I lived in suburban Montreal. She was a friend of my younger brother. Eventually she moved to Ontario, where she was later murdered by a horrible psychopath and his psychopath wife.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo

I knew several Langlais growing up.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I knew several Langlais growing up.

Again, not surprising given that the surname inventory of the French Canadians is very small, reflecting the fact they all descend from extremely few settlers. That's why their common family names like Tremblay are not at all common in France. And in the case of "Langlais" I suspect they altered the spelling in Canada. I've never seen or heard of a "Langlais" in France, whereas Langlois does exist in Normandy.

We also have Lallemand as a surname, but it's not very frequent. The French, as the largest Medieval people in Europe, were rather insular.

Funnily we also have Le Gall, which is Breton for... "the Frenchman". It's one of the most frequent surnames in Celtic-speaking Brittany. Obviously you won't find it in Québec since the Celtic Bretons did not migrate to French Canada back in the days. In general you're going to find in Québec rare surnames from the Perche area, and a few surnames from Normandy and the La Rochelle area.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Never heard or met any "Langlais" in France.

Learn something new every day here!

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Never heard or met any "Langlais" in France. It's one of these surnames found in Québec but not in France, because so many people in Québec descend from the one odd ancestor who bore that name.

French is a very common surname in England. Langlais is so rare in France you can spend your entire life here without ever meeting or hearing about one. "Langlois" (Medieval spelling) is more frequent, but still not that frequent (I've seen the name in historical context in Normandy, but never actually met a Langlois in real life). According to INSEE it was only the 153rd most frequent family name in France in the 20th century: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_noms_de_famille_les_plus_courants_en_France

Langlais did not even make it in the list, because it's so rare (if it exists at all in France today).

Ireland is also a somewhat common surname in Ireland, how whack is that!?!

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langlais

Langlais doesn't exactly appear to be an obscure surname in France...

What would you say is the equivalent to the name John Smith in France? (the most common name combination in the English speaking world)

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

In fact it's the other way around. England was a possession of the continental Plantagenets (who were dukes of Anjou). Richard the Lionheart famously set foot only once in his entire life in England, spoke no English, and otherwise lived like a French prince in France. He's buried at Fontevraud abbey in Anjou. Ironically the English erected his statue in front of the parliamanent of Westminster as if he was some sort of national hero.

I disagree, I think it would have been cool as hell if England still had territory in continental Europe, and if Bretagne had remained a Celtic Kingdom.

The period of history where East Francia, Middle Francia, and West Francia existed at the same time looks truly fascinating on a map.

It's really quite bonkers to think England ever had such vast territorial possessions in France, and it's also very interesting how common and widespread the French language used to be.

French is still very widespread, and up there as a global language with the likes of English and Spanish.

If only Canada did a better job promoting the benefits of bilingualism and got more Canadians to learn French from an early age. Perhaps Prime Minister Carney's continued French language learning spurs on the entire nation to follow his lead an embrace the French language. I can't wait to hear what you have to say about tonight's the French language debate, New Brisavoine!

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langlais

Langlais doesn't exactly appear to be an obscure surname in France...

Proof is in the pudding. It's not even among the list of the 200 most common surnames in France : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_noms_de_famille_les_plus_courants_en_France

France is the country with the most family names in Europe (perhaps even the world), due to it being the most populated European country by far during the Middle Ages (8 times more inhabitants than England). So the probability that you will find just about any name (with just about any spelling, since the spellings of family names in France were never standardized, unlike in other European countries) is high, but the probably of these names being rare to obscure is also very high.

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

What would you say is the equivalent to the name John Smith in France? (the most common name combination in the English speaking world)

Martin is the most common family name in France, but it's not as common as Smith in England, because the English people multiplied a lot and all descend from a small base of population, whereas France's population was very large and did not multiply all that much, so you have fewer family names in England, with a larger % of the population bearing each one (it's even worse in Spain or in China).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

It's really quite bonkers to think England ever had such vast territorial possessions in France, and it's also very interesting how common and widespread the French language used to be.

England didn't have territorial possessions in France. French dukes had possessions in England, in fact they owned England (+ most of Wales and Ireland), having conquered it in 1066.

The only time in history when one can really talk of England having possessions in France is in the last stages of the Hundred Years' War, after the Battle of Agincourt, when Henry V of England conquered part of Northern France (but the English were famously stopped by Joan of Arc at Orléans in 1429, and the occupation, it was seen, and is described by historians, as "occupation", didn't last more than 20 years).

[kwoldtimer]

The UK monarch used "France" in their title until George III dropped it at the beginning of the 19th century.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

French media tonight reporting that the St Pierrais and Miquelonaise authorities have reacted with humor to the proposal to send there the dangerous illegals who are under a deportation order.

As it often turns out when anybody makes an outrageous statement about some place, it seems Wauquiez actually served them by advertising their tiny archipelago.
It is unusual to hear of it over here. They're only 6,000 people over there.
They probably wouldn't mind about a little influx of population from the mainland.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The UK monarch used "France" in their title until George III dropped it at the beginning of the 19th century.

It was a condition imposed by France in the peace treaty of Amiens in 1802. Napoleon made it a precondition to reestablish peace between both countries.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The UK monarch used "France" in their title until George III dropped it at the beginning of the 19th century.

That trick remind me of calling a prime minister "governor"...

[New Brisavoine]

It wasn't just a trick. The English were pretty serious about it (even if it had become entirely silly since at least the 16th century).

For example this is how the English coins looked like in the late 1790s, with the royal coat of arms of France (fleur de lys), which had been abolished in France itself in 1792!



It's one of these attributes of state that have lost all relevance and are even silly but which cannot be discarded for reasons of pride.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It wasn't just a trick. The English were pretty serious about it (even if it had become entirely silly since at least the 16th century).

Trump is very serious too.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Never heard or met any "Langlais" in France. It's one of these surnames found in Québec but not in France, because so many people in Québec descend from the one odd ancestor who bore that name.

French is a very common surname in England. Langlais is so rare in France you can spend your entire life here without ever meeting or hearing about one. "Langlois" (Medieval spelling) is more frequent, but still not that frequent (I've seen the name in historical context in Normandy, but never actually met a Langlois in real life). According to INSEE it was only the 153rd most frequent family name in France in the 20th century: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_noms_de_famille_les_plus_courants_en_France

Langlais did not even make it in the list, because it's so rare (if it exists at all in France today).

French as a surname is more common in Ireland. You are more likely to see the last name in Newfoundland and Labrador than anywhere else in Canada as far as I know.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Loco101

French as a surname is more common in Ireland. You are more likely to see the last name in Newfoundland and Labrador than anywhere else in Canada as far as I know.

I knew two people with the name "French", one in Newfoundland., and one in Nova Scotia.

In Quebec, Canada, the name Langlais is the 543rd most popular surname. 3 However, in the United States, the name Langlais is ranked the 18,136th most popular surname with an estimated 2,487 people with that name. 4 And in France, the name Langlais is the 647th popular surname with an estimated 7,304 people with that name.

https://www.houseofnames.com/ca/langlais-family-crest

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Trump is very serious too.

It's not a state policy. There isn't Canada on US dollar bills.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It's not a state policy. There isn't Canada on US dollar bills.

Trump is the State now.

[MolsonExport]

[MonctonRad]

Emperor Donald I, first of his name, the founder of the Trumpian dynasty of the American Empire.

The Empire was created in 2028, as questions began to be mounted over his plans to run for a third term as President of the old American Republic. As dissent began to rise, he enacted martial law, with his handpicked Joint Chiefs of Staff quickly deploying troops to the streets of major American cities, and rounding up dissidents and opposition Democrats, and sending them to detention camps in El Salvador without due process.

National Guard troops in several states tried to mount a resistance, but, they were quickly dealt with by savage missile and rocket strikes launched by US Air Force loyalists.

Once power was consolidated in early 2029, Donald I abolished to US Congress, and formalized his absolute control of the country by proclaiming the American Empire.

This was followed shortly by invasions of Canada, Greenland and Saint Pierre/Miquelon to create Fortress North America. A 30 metre high wall was built along the Mexican border, and, an exclusion zone was created (200 metres wide) along the border, defended by automated machine guns and flamethrowers. Finally, the Gulf of America and Florida Strait were heavily mined, and a naval blockade mounted. Any undocumented brown skinned Spanish speaking people found on Imperial territory were summarily executed to maintain the Empire's linguistic and racial purity.

Donald I died in 2035, succeeded by his son Donald II.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Trump is the State now.

He wish he were, but he isn't. (not yet at least)