Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity - Page 685

Loco101 · #**13681** Posted **Mar 29, 2025, 10:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

What could they say anyway? There's not much they can do about this situation. All Canada can do is bide their time and wait for Trump to either tire of the issue or lose the next election.

They could actually address the issue and say that they would work with the federal government on the Trump issues. They could talk about the importance of democracy, being voices for regular Quebecers and that sovereignty would not be achieved if Trump seeks to influence and take over. It's not that hard to come up with something. But the BQ's ignorance may cost them a lot of seats and rightfully so.

dreambrother808 · #**13682** Posted **Mar 29, 2025, 10:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Which other province could break Canada? None. Québec is the only province that can break the country. That matters. And it's not some mere threat. They've actually done it twice, and came with a whisker of breaking the country last time.

So no, it's not surprising that the premier of Québec has a "shopping list" that he wants the federal government to pay attention to, because everyone knows what the alternative can be if the Québécois decide they are fed up with Canada. No other province has that power, not even Ontario (nobody seriously believes that Ontario could secede from Canada).

Any province could secede. They just don’t want to, other than Alberta or Quebec. The person making threats is not the most powerful person in any given situation. In fact it usually points to the opposite.

New Brisavoine · #**13683** Posted **Mar 29, 2025, 11:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101

Ontario could if it democratically voted to just as much as Quebec could.

This isn't serious. Any Ontario politician who would threaten to secede wouldn't be taken seriously. Whereas if the leader of the largest Québec party threatened to secede after the Québec election, he would bloodily be taken seriously. That's the MAJOR difference.

New Brisavoine · #**13684** Posted **Mar 29, 2025, 11:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

The person making threats is not the most powerful person in any given situation. In fact it usually points to the opposite.

This isn't interpersonal relations, it's quasi-sovereign interstate relations. It's totally different from how people behave in interpersonal relations.

kwoldtimer · #**13685** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 1:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

This isn't serious. Any Ontario politician who would threaten to secede wouldn't be taken seriously. Whereas if the leader of the largest Québec party threatened to secede after the Québec election, he would bloodily be taken seriously. That's the MAJOR difference.

Ontarians would mostly be puzzled - how can one secede from oneself?

MonctonRad · #**13686** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 1:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Ontarians would mostly be puzzled - how can one secede from oneself?

When the USSR collapsed, the inciting event was Russia seceding. Look at how well that turned out.

Acajack · #**13687** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 1:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

• Video Link

I leave this here for Acajacks' amusement and commentary and for New Brisavoines frustration, scorn and ridicule.

Yes I have seen that. It is very interesting and unexpected though I would caution against reading anything permanent into that. It would be quite premature.

Acajack · #**13688** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 1:24 PM**

Mark Carney has said he would intervene (on the side of the opponents) if Québec’s language laws were contested to the Supreme Court.

MonctonRad · #**13689** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 1:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Mark Carney has said he would intervene (on the side of the opponents) if Québec’s language laws were contested to the Supreme Court.

He is the Prime Minister of all Canadians. I'm sure if a reactionary Conservative Premier of NB (like Blaine Higgs) tried something similar on the Acadian minority population here, he would do the same thing for the francophone minority.

ToxiK · #**13690** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 1:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

He is the Prime Minister of all Canadians. I'm sure if a reactionary Conservative Premier of NB (like Blaine Higgs) tried something similar on the Acadian minority population here, he would do the same thing for the francophone minority.

Ottawa didn't do anything when Francophone rights were extinguished in Western Canada in the 19th and early 20th century. Of course, you could say that Canada was just an infant country and that things would be different today, but that would be a very convenient position...

Also, The federal government didn't intervene either when the only French speaking hospital in the province was closed in the 90's. The French community had to fight alone to save Montfort Hospital.

There is kind of an asymmetry here...

ToxiK · #**13691** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 1:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes I have seen that. It is very interesting and unexpected though I would caution against reading anything permanent into that. It would be quite premature.

Yes. I am afraid that the attitude will become something like: "Québec is now on board, so anything goes. Let's forget whatever Québec wants and transform Canada the way WE want".

kwoldtimer · #**13692** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 1:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Ottawa didn't do anything when Francophone rights were extinguished in Western Canada in the 19th and early 20th century. Of course, you could say that Canada was just an infant country and that things would be different today, but that would be a very convenient position...

Also, The federal government didn't intervene either when the only French speaking hospital in the province was closed in the 90's. The French community had to fight alone to save Montfort Hospital.

There is kind of an asymmetry here...

I'm not sure I understand your point?

ToxiK · #**13693** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 2:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I'm not sure I understand your point?

Ottawa has an history of looking the other way when Francophone are losing rights in the ROC and a tendency of draping itself as the protector of liberties when Anglophones feel treated unfairly.

Acajack · #**13694** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 4:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Yes. I am afraid that the attitude will become something like: "Québec is now on board, so anything goes. Let's forget whatever Québec wants and transform Canada the way WE want".

Yes if Carney does very well in Québec on April 28 there will be a very strong push to proclaim that all of the traditional Québec-Canada sticking points (language, secularism, immigration, autonomy etc) are no longer important and things of the past.

New Brisavoine · #**13695** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 7:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

He is the Prime Minister of all Canadians. I'm sure if a reactionary Conservative Premier of NB (like Blaine Higgs) tried something similar on the Acadian minority population here, he would do the same thing for the francophone minority.

As if the two things were similar... You sound like the MAGA crowd who claim that positive discrimination is racism against Caucasians.

kwoldtimer · #**13696** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 7:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes if Carney does very well in Québec on April 28 there will be a very strong push to proclaim that all of the traditional Québec-Canada sticking points (language, secularism, immigration, autonomy etc) are no longer important and things of the past.

Strong push from whom? Seems a bit misquided.

Tvisforme · #**13697** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 7:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes if Carney does very well in Québec on April 28 there will be a very strong push to proclaim that all of the traditional Québec-Canada sticking points (language, secularism, immigration, autonomy etc) are no longer important and things of the past.

There certainly might be some people thinking that way, but I highly doubt that Mr Carney would be one of them. I think he's well aware that his potential victory is heavily influenced by the Trudeau/Trump/"not Poilievre" factors, and that any decline in votes for the Bloc is a reflection of more immediate priorities rather than a sign that separation is "over".

lio45 · #**13698** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 7:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Strong push from whom? Seems a bit misquided.

Strong push from Anglo-Canadians in general and the government in charge in Ottawa more specifically. (Seemed obvious from his statement, but I guess not.)

kwoldtimer · #**13699** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 7:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Strong push from Anglo-Canadians in general and the government in charge in Ottawa more specifically. (Seemed obvious from his statement, but I guess not.)

Colour me sceptical, although I don't know what a "push" would entail.

mousquet · #**13700** Posted **Mar 30, 2025, 7:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

As if the two things were similar... You sound like the MAGA crowd who claim that positive discrimination is racism against Caucasians.

I'm not in favor of any kind of discrimination either. It has nothing to do with any MAGA or white supremacy crap.
It just only means threats to fair education, actual skills and meritocracy.

You know I'm pleased when folks from any minority in our country grow well educated and fairly successful, but they certainly shouldn't get any particular privilege over white people.
Otherwise, we would end up with people to say - heck, I won't trust that doc. He's got his degree only because he's black. As it might happen in the US, or so I heard. It simply doesn't work.

Making education actually accessible to anybody is more effective.