Northeast False Creek | Proposed

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by officedweller

If Concord had actually built a financial centre of office towers between the viaducts as originally proposed,
I wonder if that would have saved the area?

I'm pretty sure we would have been worse off long term if they actually developed on their initial time frame when you take into account the viaduct removal plans/view cone removals. The only way the area would have been saved by a 1990s redevelopment would have been gentrification of the DTES with land improvements preventing it from turning it into a slum/restricting social housing development.





https://www.da-architects.ca/projects/concord-pacific-place/

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

If Concord had actually built a financial centre of office towers between the viaducts as originally proposed,
I wonder if that would have saved the area?

Concord have frequently, (so far in every case?), promised office space as part of their overall masterplan, and then waited long enough to get agreement to switch to residential, or sold off the site to another developer. That's why PCI developed 858 Beatty, and not Concord. They have minimal office space, and limited retail, in their commercial portfolio, and almost no market rental, either. If the residential condo market isn't particularly robust, they wait. Unlike other developers, they don't pivot to rental.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Concord have frequently, (so far in every case?), promised office space as part of their overall masterplan, and then waited long enough to get agreement to switch to residential, or sold off the site to another developer. That's why PCI developed 858 Beatty, and not Concord. They have minimal office space, and limited retail, in their commercial portfolio, and almost no market rental, either. If the residential condo market isn't particularly robust, they wait. Unlike other developers, they don't pivot to rental.

I wonder if that’s one reason they’re dragging their feet on the Moldon site? Are they required to provide commercial there?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I wonder if that’s one reason they’re dragging their feet on the Moldon site? Are they required to provide commercial there?

Seems more likely there's no market for office space right now so if it's a requirement of the site then waiting is better than building space that will sit empty. If the St Pauls rezoning is more straight forward you assume they do that project first.

They only wanted ~100K of office space in the ODP for False Creek North (Pivotal was 240K square feet)

https://bylaws.vancouver.ca/odp/odp-false-creek-north.pdf

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Seems more likely there's no market for office space right now so if it's a requirement of the site then waiting is better than building space that will sit empty. If the St Pauls rezoning is more straight forward you assume they do that project first.

They only wanted ~100K of office space in the ODP for False Creek North (Pivotal was 240K square feet)

https://bylaws.vancouver.ca/odp/odp-false-creek-north.pdf

They wanted up to 1,100,000 sq ft of office and other commercial uses in False Creek North. (They haven't got close to that amount yet, and I'm pretty sure all the proposed towers in NEFC are residential).

Section 3.2.2 "Giving consideration to the densities permitted in nearby commercial areas, up to a maximum of 108,949 square metres of office and street- or pedestrian-oriented retail and service uses may be permitted, generally distributed as shown on Figure 5. Office uses existing as of April 10, 1990, in the Plaza of Nations complex, are permitted but their area shall be excluded from the maximum amount of permitted office use."

[WarrenC12]

A fully built out NEFC might revitalize Tinseltown...

[jollyburger]

Didn't notice the square metres Seems like it was 145K square metres but got dropped to that number in a rezoning for Arc (excluding the Parq site)

https://council.vancouver.ca/20140513/documents/p2.pdf

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Didn't notice the square metres Seems like it was 145K square metres but got dropped to that number in a rezoning for Arc (excluding the Parq site)

https://council.vancouver.ca/20140513/documents/p2.pdf

There's been a pattern over decades of master plans permitting significant commercial space, but developers (for no doubt valid economic reasons) not choosing to build it. Concord's development history has been one of favouring strata residential built over minimal retail space, and it's no doubt served them well. Because the City of Vancouver limited residential development in the CBD, it's not been a limitation on having sufficient potential for the growth of commercial space, and it has been more concentrated as a result.

The previous Plaza of Nations redevelopment proposal included office space, but I would imagine a redesign will only include retail, restaurant and maybe hotel. I would be very surprised if Concord's rezoning shows anything other than residential towers, and it will be interesting to see if they include any market rental.

[jollyburger]

I guess VAG at one point was going to be down at the Plaza of Nations site.

The proposed Art Gallery would provide about 320,000 sq. ft. of the needed job space. While some stakeholders have suggested that the Gallery should not be counted as “job space”, it is staff’s position (in agreement with the Metro Core approach) that while the employment intensity of uses may vary; all non-residential uses contribute to job space. Accordingly, the Art Gallery will help to achieve the job space target of 1.8 million sq.ft in NEFC. If it does not locate here, the Directions note that another public attraction would be possible, and if smaller, would adjust the overall job space achievable in NEFC and the minimums for nonresidential floor space to be provided by other sites.

And this

Canadian Metropolitan Properties (CMP) and Aquilini Developments wished the City to consider residential use, but City policy did not support residential on their lands. (False Creek North: Land Use Policy for Special Events, Festivals and Entertainment Functions, 2005)
• Concord Pacific also wanted to convert all their remaining commercial development allowances to residential and be permitted additional residential space.
• The BC Place stadium site, owned by PavCo, had developable land but no development allowances in the ODP.

Concord's statement on non-residential density

Subject to other considerations as an adjacent landowner, we are able to see the merit of commercial capacity at GM Place which would support the Metro Core Jobs and Economy Study. We also consider BC Place a natural and viable location for extensive commercial uses. We note that after 20 years of business, the Plaza of Nations is in the process of demolishing its existing commercial space, due to longterm commercial market realities. In such a context we are looking very carefully at the commercial uses suggested in this report for the Concord lands. To date Concord has not put forward any plans or suggested any densities allowances for its lands. We believe it is premature to discuss density until the Capacity & View Corridors Study and the VAG relocation process are completed. As mentioned above, we consider the layouts and densities generated by Planning in this Report for the Concord lands as one example of many and that it is premature to be reviewed by Council. Concord will submit its plans in the next phase of HLR, and anticipates that densiys on its land will be addressed on an equitable basis in relations to other landowners.

The allowances for Concord Pacific reflect two rezonings in recent years:

• The 2002 rezoning of the Spectrum/Costco site (Area 7b) was achieved through transferring the residential development potential of 6c South to the Spectrum/Costco site and conversely, transferring about 800,000 sq. ft. of commercial potential from Area 7b to Area 6c South; and
• The 2004, rezoning of Cooper’s Landing (Area 6a ) involved moving 118,000 sq.ft. of commercial floor area potential from Area 5b, converting it to residential, and adding it to the already existing residential potential on Cooper’s Landing site.

I mean they've pretty been pretty astute in waiting ~15 years. And I guess COV also got a huge component with the Parq development even if it wasn't included in the scope of this plan.



https://council.vancouver.ca/20090602/documents/p2.pdf

[jollyburger]

Vancouver developer pushes Georgia, Dunsmuir viaducts removal to build 5K homes

Although the first phase of Concord Landing is at least five years away, the developer is going full steam ahead, with an initial rezoning inquiry made to the City of Vancouver a week ago, to be followed by a formal rezoning submission.

“We have been working on this rezoning plan since the view corridor policy … came down in July,” said Peter Webb, senior vice-president of development with Concord Pacific.

When completed, Concord Landing would feature about 5,000 homes, as well as a large green space matching the green space adopted in the 2018 ODP. The proposed development would also feature between 50 and 100 small commercial units, mostly between 500 and 1,000 square feet in size.

https://www.biv.com/news/real-estate/van...ducts-removal-to-build-5k-homes-10329453

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I mean they've pretty been pretty astute in waiting ~15 years. And I guess COV also got a huge component with the Parq development even if it wasn't included in the scope of this plan.

They also got commercial space at the base of The Arc and the other one across from The Parq.
There had been 2 more elaborate commercial office towers proposed for those sites at one point, but ended up as residential.

The biggest issue will be getting people down to the waterfront from downtown with BC Place "in the way".


I couldn't find the renderings, but did find a 2008 report on commercial uses in NEFC:
https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/northeast-false-creek-commercial-development-analysis.pdf

[officedweller]

Here's a pic of a Concord model that HollywoodNorth posted pics of circa 2010 (pre viaduct demolition talk),
with the pedestrian "Georgia Steps" down the middle of the model. There's even 2 towers between the viaducts.




and now:

Originally Posted by mcj

[jollyburger]

They have that walkway that runs parallel to the Skytrain guideway from downtown all the way to the new park around Quebec Street. Maybe it's just elevated until it goes past Pacific since it mentions an "Active Bridge"

There's another Carrall Street land bridge that goes from the playing fields over the guideway to the new park as well.

https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/6424a...bf000b0_250106%20Media%20Renderings2.jpg

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

They're moving goalposts.

Difference is that there are people who can see where the goalposts will ultimately be moved to, versus those who can't.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Difference is that there are people who can see where the goalposts will ultimately be moved to, versus those who can't.

Where will they go? Please enlighten us.

As a reminder this is about the viaducts coming down.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

Difference is that there are people who can see where the goalposts will ultimately be moved to, versus those who can't.

Since analogies are lost on you, you're the one moving them, so of course you can see where they're going. Why move at all?

You made a number up one year, then used the next year's highball to pretend that was the cost all along. If we're going to play that game, I declare that it'll be close to $1 billion in maintenance and lost revenue to keep them.

Until City Hall votes to stop working on it, they're coming down eventually. Now run away for another three months.

[jollyburger]

963 Pacific Blvd

Interior alterations to demise the existing restaurant space (A2) into a new office and retail unit on the ground floor of this existing building.

https://plposweb.vancouver.ca/Public/Default.aspx?PossePresentation=Guest&PosseObjectId=269626292

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://plposweb.vancouver.ca/Public/Default.aspx?PossePresentation=Guest&PosseObjectId=269626292

Office and retail unit? Hmmm I wonder what kind of business that will be.

[jollyburger]

The retail space is under 1000 sq feet and isn't leased

https://www.spacelist.ca/listings/935102/bc/vancouver/for-lease/retail/1-963_pacific_boulevard

Leasing plan has a proposed vet clinic in the remaining space.

Opening in Kits location and has one location on Main St

https://www.junovet.com/vancouver

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The retail space is under 1000 sq feet and isn't leased

https://www.spacelist.ca/listings/935102/bc/vancouver/for-lease/retail/1-963_pacific_boulevard

Leasing plan has a proposed vet clinic in the remaining space.

Opening in Kits location and has one location on Main St

https://www.junovet.com/vancouver

Ah, pet husbandry is indeed big business these days. This location is also closest to the largest dog park in town at Cooper's so I guess that makes sense.