Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity - Page 668

harls · #**13341** Posted **Feb 27, 2025, 5:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

"Anglo-Saxon" is a cultural term, not an ethnic one. That's why it includes the Irish.

Everyone in English Canada will call a guy from Québec or New Brunswick with a French accent 'French' and it is not meant as an insult.

The way you use 'Anglo-Saxon' is derogatory and dismissive, and I think you like it.

Nashe · #**13342** Posted **Feb 27, 2025, 7:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by harls

Everyone in English Canada will call a guy from Québec or New Brunswick with a French accent 'French' and it is not meant as an insult. The way you use 'Anglo-Saxon' is derogatory and dismissive, and I think you like it.

I've read a few of the French media links NB has provided and surprised to find it there as well. Like I said, a weird kinda "us vs them" tribalism. I've never seen that "flavour" before.

Tvisforme · #**13343** Posted **Feb 27, 2025, 9:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Never heard it while living there. Never. A NYTimes article I saw the other day suggests it's a fairly recent expression popularized by Obama...

It may have originated in the late 1970s, per Wikipedia's article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_under_the_bus

EnvisionSaintJohn · #**13344** Posted **Feb 27, 2025, 9:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

"Anglo-Saxon" is a cultural term, not an ethnic one. That's why it includes the Irish.

It absolutely does not include the Irish.

To quote yourself,

Quote:

"You should go read about the history of this region before commenting. You can start here" :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_rule_in_Ireland

Acajack · #**13345** Posted **Feb 27, 2025, 10:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

same source as the inability for many Quebecois to "get" the rest of Canada.

Perhaps though the difference is that most Québécois don't claim to have the ROC all figured out. If anything, they tend to be defiantly ignorant of it.

Acajack · #**13346** Posted **Feb 27, 2025, 10:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by harls

NB keeps calling 'us' Anglo-Saxons.

I expect better from people who are part of the same country as me, and probably consider me as being part of their "us".

Acajack · #**13347** Posted **Feb 27, 2025, 10:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nashe

I've read a few of the French media links NB has provided and surprised to find it there as well. Like I said, a weird kinda "us vs them" tribalism. I've never seen that "flavour" before.

It's clearly inaccurate but probably not meant to be insulting in most cases.

It's definitely a thing that people in France do, but we don't do it here.

The meaning would be identical to that of "anglophone" in Canadian parlance, or "Anglais" (often inaccurately used for "anglophone") in French Canadian parlance.

You get these things in all languages and cultures, that seem arcane or absurd to outsiders.

In Latin America, all Asian people regardless of nationality or ethnicity are generally referred to as "Chinos".

I'd also like to remind people that it wasn't that long ago that Indigenous people were referred to by most Canadians as "Indians". And of course we still have the federal Indian Act on the books here.

New Brisavoine · #**13348** Posted **Feb 27, 2025, 10:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

It absolutely does not include the Irish.

It absolutely does. Everyone in Europe views JFK as an "Anglo-Saxon" (and he was, in his manners, his politics, his pretense of a postcard-perfect family while being secretly a womanizer, which is typical of the prudish Anglo-Saxon world, especially America nowadays now that Britain has become much more liberal on these issues, etc).

Ditto, Ireland's nasty tax haven legislation is seen as the typical excesses of Anglo-Saxon capitalism here.

It's purely cultural. No one would see an English-speaking Ghanaian as an "Anglo-Saxon". As I believe Acajack once said in this thread, it's basically all the Caucasian Anglophone jurisdictions that are labeled as "Anglo-Saxon", and the term is now widely accepted in Europe and Latin America, and increasingly also in the British media (less so in North America).

Hecate · #**13349** Posted **Feb 28, 2025, 12:30 AM**

Interesting a Frenchman telling the Celtic Irish who they really are. lol

MolsonExport · #**13350** Posted **Feb 28, 2025, 12:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I expect better from people who are part of the same country as me, and probably consider me as being part of their "us".

It's sad that you cannot see the utter contempt in which NB uses the term "Anglo Saxon" to heap scorn on Anglos and people living in the ROC. Maybe you don't agree with him, but if so, I cannot ever recall you trying to correct him.

I got labelled an enemy of Quebec by your great pal, Lio, and you did not see fit to correct him either. That greatly insulted me. Call me crazy, but that is a much worse smear than being called "French".

Besides (and don't even try to correct me on this, because I know it to be a fact) it is commonplace for Quebecois to refer to Anglos as "Les Anglais". I read it all the time, I heard it all the time, I was so labelled many times.

New Brisavoine · #**13351** Posted **Feb 28, 2025, 12:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hecate

Interesting a Frenchman telling the Celtic Irish who they really are. lol

It's not about who they are, but how they are perceived by outsiders. In any case you're fighting a losing battle. I'm just telling you how 500 million Europeans view it. I don't presume you pretend to change the opinion of 500 million people on this forum with your ten fingers?

MolsonExport · #**13352** Posted **Feb 28, 2025, 2:27 AM**

You mean, how they are perceived by you. And how you perceive, disparagingly, "Anglo Saxons".
Neither represents how 500 million Europeans view it.

Acajack · #**13353** Posted **Feb 28, 2025, 2:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

It's sad that you cannot see the utter contempt in which NB uses the term "Anglo Saxon" to heap scorn on Anglos and people living in the ROC. Maybe you don't agree with him, but if so, I cannot ever recall you trying to correct him.

I got labelled an enemy of Quebec by your great pal, Lio, and you did not see fit to correct him either. That greatly insulted me. Call me crazy, but that is a much worse smear than being called "French".

Besides (and don't even try to correct me on this, because I know it to be a fact) it is commonplace for Quebecois to refer to Anglos as "Les Anglais". I read it all the time, I heard it all the time, I was so labelled many times.

Re « les Anglais », I guess you are not reading my posts.

AverageMonctonEnjoyr · #**13354** Posted **Feb 28, 2025, 4:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by harls

Everyone in English Canada will call a guy from Québec or New Brunswick with a French accent 'French' and it is not meant as an insult.

The way you use 'Anglo-Saxon' is derogatory and dismissive, and I think you like it.

I beg your finest pardon ? how is anglo-saxon derogatory ? Doesn't it refer to the ancient tribes, the Angles and the Saxons that populated great britain, their descendants being people from the british isles. People love to victimize so much nowadays it's crazy.

AverageMonctonEnjoyr · #**13355** Posted **Feb 28, 2025, 5:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It absolutely does. Everyone in Europe views JFK as an "Anglo-Saxon" (and he was, in his manners, his politics, his pretense of a postcard-perfect family while being secretly a womanizer, which is typical of the prudish Anglo-Saxon world, especially America nowadays now that Britain has become much more liberal on these issues, etc).

Ditto, Ireland's nasty tax haven legislation is seen as the typical excesses of Anglo-Saxon capitalism here.

It's purely cultural. No one would see an English-speaking Ghanaian as an "Anglo-Saxon". As I believe Acajack once said in this thread, it's basically all the Caucasian Anglophone jurisdictions that are labeled as "Anglo-Saxon", and the term is now widely accepted in Europe and Latin America, and increasingly also in the British media (less so in North America).

The widespread definition of Anglo-saxon just is any white person who speaks english as a first language ( American, British, Australian, Canadian etc. ).
Maybe it's not accurate, but it's just how it is in everyone's subconscious.

Lumping in the Irish with the english is like lumping in the portuguese with the spanish, people who are neighbors and very similar to each other, but still two distinct peoples.
Just like the term ''latino'', its used correctly and incorrectly all the time.

Calling an Anglo-Canadian ''anglo-saxon'' is just like calling a black person african, there's a 95% chance you're correct, Haiti and other such places existing. Just harmlessly used as an umbrella term.

Loco101 · #**13356** Posted **Feb 28, 2025, 5:43 AM**

I'm tired of the stereotypes, assumptions and generalizations.

Loco101 · #**13357** Posted **Feb 28, 2025, 5:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by AverageMonctonEnjoyr

The widespread definition of Anglo-saxon just is any white person who speaks english as a first language ( American, British, Australian, Canadian etc. ).
Maybe it's not accurate, but it's just how it is in everyone's subconscious.

Lumping in the Irish with the english is like lumping in the portuguese with the spanish, people who are neighbors and very similar to each other, but still two distinct peoples.
Just like the term ''latino'', its used correctly and incorrectly all the time.

Calling an Anglo-Canadian ''anglo-saxon'' is just like calling a black person african, there's a 95% chance you're correct, Haiti and other such places existing. Just harmlessly used as an umbrella term.

I live in a place that has a lot of people of French-Canadian background and quite a few of Italian origin who speak mainly or exclusively English when out and about. I've never heard any of them refer to themselves as Anglo-Saxons. I've never heard anyone here of any background refer to themselves or others as Anglo-Saxon.

Truenorth00 · #**13358** Posted **Feb 28, 2025, 9:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101

I'm tired of the stereotypes, assumptions and generalizations.

It's permitted for foreign trolls here. No idea why.

Truenorth00 · #**13359** Posted **Feb 28, 2025, 9:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by harls

Everyone in English Canada will call a guy from Québec or New Brunswick with a French accent 'French' and it is not meant as an insult.

I think this is straight up a lack of vocabulary. What a lot of people mean when they say "French" is "Francophone". But somehow the term "Franco" is rather rare. For me, it's mostly what I have heard through my military career and around Ottawa.

Acajack · #**13360** Posted **Feb 28, 2025, 10:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101

I live in a place that has a lot of people of French-Canadian background and quite a few of Italian origin who speak mainly or exclusively English when out and about. I've never heard any of them refer to themselves as Anglo-Saxons. I've never heard anyone here of any background refer to themselves or others as Anglo-Saxon.

No one is arguing that it is widely used in North America, though.