High Speed Rail in Canada

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Vancouver to Calgary and Quebec to Halifax are ~1000 km rail trips. Even with HSR that would be a 4+ hr trip. Very few people would choose that over flying. But these services would be fine as 8-10 hr regular rail service or sleeper services.

A lot of people hate flying, and if the stations are central, it saves time driving to the airport.

As an example, I always took the HSR from Shanghai to Beijing, which was around 4 1/2 hours. If you factor in travelling to the airport, baggage lines, security checks etc., the times weren't too different. I could hop on the train five minutes before departure, and be totally fine. It's a very popular way to travel between SH and BJ.

Plus, travelling by train is way more spacious and relaxing than flying. I never had a delayed or cancelled train.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by giallo

I never had a delayed train.

Sadly, the same thing can't be said in Canada.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by giallo

A lot of people hate flying

I was on a family pass and flew constantly back and forth to school well into my 20s and on my own up to my 30s. I then had a spell of 20 years where I never had reason to fly (had my fill of travel) I had to take a company business trip when I was 50 and I can't remember what the small AC plane I got on was (smaller than an RJ) but I remember thinking to myself there's no way I'm getting out of this plane alive if something happens.

I enjoy flying, especially in the JS on deck, but if HSR is anywhere close all things included, I'll take the train.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by giallo

A lot of people hate flying, and if the stations are central, it saves time driving to the airport...

I can't say that I "hate" flying, but I do very much prefer small planes (Vancouver-Victoria harbour-to-harbour for example) compared to the large commercial jets. Better view, but of course impractical for longer flights. I'd probably be more likely to consider visiting Calgary for an overnight stay by high-speed train rather than the current flights even if it takes a bit longer.

[Loco101]

The HSR going to Union Station is something good for me for more travel options. If the Northlander train from Timmins (Porcupine) to Union Station happens then it would give people from here more choice for fast travel all the way to Quebec City. We would also be able to fly Porter Airlines to the Billy Bishop island airport, go through the tunnel and take the free shuttle to Union Station.

I'm wondering where the opposition parties stand on HSR and this proposed project. The HSR plan gives me vibes of Doug Ford in Ontario promising to bring back the Northlander train yet nothing has happened yet other than a bunch of big signs being put up along Hwy 11 and in Timmins. I'm hoping the federal government moves much more quickly as it's a project that will take much longer to achieve than the Northlander which is using existing tracks.

[Truenorth00]

Northlander has ordered Siemens Ventures. When they are delivered, service will start up.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by giallo

A lot of people hate flying, and if the stations are central, it saves time driving to the airport.

As an example, I always took the HSR from Shanghai to Beijing, which was around 4 1/2 hours. If you factor in travelling to the airport, baggage lines, security checks etc., the times weren't too different. I could hop on the train five minutes before departure, and be totally fine. It's a very popular way to travel between SH and BJ.

Plus, travelling by train is way more spacious and relaxing than flying. I never had a delayed or cancelled train.

The market isn't there and will not be there for a while. We're talking about traffic between a metro of 3M and 1.5M that is a thousand kilometers apart. I don't think the market will ever be there to justify this kind of investment. By comparison, Beijing and Shanghai are 22M and 40M respectively. So it will 777s flying between them, not 737s and 320s, as we have here been Vancouver and Calgary.

[someone123]

It's also very mountainous between Vancouver and Calgary. The cities are less than 700 km apart as the crow flies but as it is the railways and highways diverge a lot from the shortest path, and presumably it would be even more difficult to build mountainous rail lines to high speed standards. You'd feel some G forces taking turns in the spiral tunnels at 300-500 km/h.

[MonkeyRonin]

Aside from the engineering & logistical challenges, the other big barrier is that the population between Vancouver & Calgary is pretty sparse, and spread throughout disparate valleys. Kelowna is the only real large-ish city between the two.

HSR is ideal for heavily-populated & linear population distributions with multiple trip-generators along the route. It's less competitive & harder to justify when intended as a singular, long distance point-to-point route. To that end, Windsor-Quebec and Calgary-Edmonton are the only viable routes at the moment - perhaps there will be some others as the population grows, but I can't see Vancouver-Calgary ever being realistic.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The market isn't there and will not be there for a while. We're talking about traffic between a metro of 3M and 1.5M that is a thousand kilometers apart. I don't think the market will ever be there to justify this kind of investment. By comparison, Beijing and Shanghai are 22M and 40M respectively. So it will 777s flying between them, not 737s and 320s, as we have here been Vancouver and Calgary.

My comment was responding to whether or not people would take a four hour train ride over flying.

I agree. I don't think there's a chance in hell that Vancouver sees an HSR route to Calgary in my lifetime.

[craner]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's also very mountainous between Vancouver and Calgary. The cities are less than 700 km apart as the crow flies but as it is the railways and highways diverge a lot from the shortest path, and presumably it would be even more difficult to build mountainous rail lines to high speed standards. You'd feel some G forces taking turns in the spiral tunnels at 300-500 km/h.

THAT’s IT - BUILD THIS NOW!

[Taeolas]

I could see Regina - Saskatoon eventually becoming a feasible HSR route, but not for years if not decades. The Corridor and Cal-Ed are the only two that are currently no-brainers.

By then (20-30 years from now maybe), the Maritime corridor might even be feasible to do as well; mainly due to having the technology and knowledge already in use in the country so it would be easier to spread further.

[Truenorth00]

The smart thing to do would be for some of these places to at least push having a regular unelectrified, at-grade rail service. These can be upgraded over time towards HSR. Instead of doing that, there's a lot of sitting around and hoping that the feds simply gift an HSR decades from now when these cities get big enough. That's not how it works.

[Taeolas]

Yup. See the VIA rail thread. I suggested that Trudeau should have made a similar announcement to the HSR one that the government was going to be looking at adding/expanding PAX rail service in general among other Canadian cities (like the Maritime corridor and/or the Prairie cities). Especially since it sounds like this HSR proposal may end up killing VIA's Golden Goose route when its in place.

And if it isn't done with VIA, then maybe a MaritimeTrack proposal for the Maritime corridor (which already has most of the rail in place, we just need the company and equipment to start running the PAX routes)

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Yup. See the VIA rail thread. I suggested that Trudeau should have made a similar announcement to the HSR one that the government was going to be looking at adding/expanding PAX rail service in general among other Canadian cities (like the Maritime corridor and/or the Prairie cities). Especially since it sounds like this HSR proposal may end up killing VIA's Golden Goose route when its in place.

And if it isn't done with VIA, then maybe a MaritimeTrack proposal for the Maritime corridor (which already has most of the rail in place, we just need the company and equipment to start running the PAX routes)

This is exactly what I am talking about. Stop hoping the feds fix all your provincial and local transport problems. You keep doing that and nothing will ever improve.

The Corridor is a rather unique exception because it is a bi-provincial corridor that has over half the country's population and GDP. There is nothing else like that in the country. Nor will there ever be in our lifetimes. Every other transport problem in the country basically requires better bus service for now and maybe just some nascent regional rail service (few times per day, bidirectional, focused on peak hours). This requires a lot more lift from provincial authorities. It doesn't require the PM saying he's going to do your Premier's homework.

[Airboy]

The currently announced corridor is the only route that makes economic sense. And even then, that will be shaky. The Edmonton Calgary corridor is next but will need to have a lot of subsidies. The Lower Mainland is pretty compacted, so the Skytrain appears to best for them. As for the rest, I wished we had better PAX service between cities. It doesn't have to be high speed just good regular service. Again, it would have to be subsidized since it does not have its own trackage.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Airboy

The currently announced corridor is the only route that makes economic sense. And even then, that will be shaky. The Edmonton Calgary corridor is next but will need to have a lot of subsidies.

I disagree. The current "announced" corridor is not the only place that HSR can be justified.

First, it didn't include an extension to London or Windsor. London is the 4th busiest station on the VIA network and Windsor is 7th. This doesn't even include the millions more that could be served by an Aldershot station. The route from London to Union actually receives the least amount of subsidy per person, per-km travelled than any other route in the country. Union/London is the route that makes the most financial sense. Calgary/Edmonton is also a no brainer. By the time these projects are finished, both cities will have more than 2 million with a sizeable population in and immediately around Red Deer. What's more they are 300km apart which is very much in the "sweet spot" for HSR........faster than driving, slower than flying.

This is why this HSR proposal is getting excitement from QC to Toronto but is being met with scorn everywhere else and being viewed as nothing more than a last minute vote buying scheme. It would not be viewed this way if the proposal extended to London/Windsor or if it included funding for an Calgary/Edmonton line combined with improved Maritime connections. Of course, these initiatives would require knowing that there is life west of Toronto and east of Quebec City and that's a reality Trudeau simply can't accept. If it's beyond earshot of the Montreal-Toronto cocktail circuit, it simply isn't relevant.

[J.OT13]

High speed rail in Canada is approaching reality.

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Montreal-Ottawa chosen as first leg of high-speed rail project
Federal Transport Minister Steven MacKinnon expected to make the announcement Friday: Radio-Canada

CBC News
Posted: Dec 12, 2025 7:28 AM EST | Last Updated: 25 minutes ago

The first segment of Canada's proposed high-speed rail network will connect Montreal and Ottawa, Radio-Canada has learned.

Federal Transport Minister Steven MacKinnon is expected to make the announcement this morning alongside Martin Imbleau, the CEO of Alto, the Crown corporation overseeing the project.

While the exact route hasn't been finalized, public consultations to determine the precise path are set to begin in January. Officials have already confirmed, however, that the line will include a stop in Laval, Que.

Groundbreaking for the project is scheduled for 2029.

The decision to start with the 200-kilometre stretch between Montreal and Ottawa comes down to geography, with it being the shortest and flatest section of the proposed corridor, sources told Radio-Canada.

Developers also wanted to launch the project with a segment that straddles the provincial border.

Construction on the remaining segments — connecting Quebec City to Montreal and Ottawa to Toronto — will begin at a later, unspecified date. However, environmental assessments and consultations for those legs would begin well before the first phase is complete.

Expropriations are expected to be part of the process.

It remains unclear when passengers will actually be able to board the first high-speed train. Sources suggest each segment could take seven to eight years to build.

The massive infrastructure project, estimated to cost between $60 billion and $90 billion, was originally launched by the Trudeau government last February. It is now a key plank in the Mark Carney government's infrastructure agenda.

The network aims to cut travel time between Montreal and Toronto to just three hours, down from the current five hours or more. The trip between Montreal and Quebec City would be reduced to approximately 90 minutes.

The announcement comes a day after dozens of Via Rail passengers travelling from Toronto to Ottawa were stranded for 12 hours overnight, after an earlier train broke down near Brockville, Ont.

The project is being managed by Alto, with construction awarded to the Cadence consortium. That group includes major players such as CDPQ Infra, AtkinsRéalis (formerly SNC-Lavalin), Air Canada, and French rail operator SNCF Voyageurs.

Based on a report by Radio-Canada's Laurence Martin

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/high-speed-rail-ottawa-montreal-9.7013138

[Taeolas]

I'll still believe it when I see it, but it's a stronger step than we've had in the past. Hopefully we can get shovels in the ground within the next year or two.

Doing the Montreal to Ottawa stretch is a good choice. It tackles the Interprovincial part right away, and its a short enough stretch to be done quickly so it can start running as fast as possible. The apparent flatness of the land is an added bonus.

[hipster duck]

Montreal-Ottawa chosen as first leg of high-speed rail project

...

The decision to start with the 200-kilometre stretch between Montreal and Ottawa comes down to geography, with it being the shortest and flattest section of the proposed corridor, sources told Radio-Canada.

Good. It's very promising that this project is proceeding incrementally. It's a good sign whenever a government agency rejects scope creep and does the efficient thing, rather than the politically favourable thing.

When we think of most of the great HSR countries, they started off by either building short initial operating segments, or short high speed lines with much of the train operating on conventional track elsewhere. The first Chinese HSR line was Beijing-Tianjin for the 2008 Olympics, which is barely over 100 km. The first French TGV line, the LGV Sud-est, opened as a ~200 km stretch in 1981.

It's still early days, but I'm hearing good things about how Martin Imbleau is running Alto.