Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There is no question Quebec would have a whole lot less leverage dealing with the US rather than dealing with anglo-Canada.

With the immigration levels we've seen recently in Canada, Québec will soon have very little leverage for anything. That is one of the unspoken reasons Canada is (or maybe was) so into mass immigration.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was operating on the assumption that all services to the population would still continue to be offered by Quebec, not the US. What you are describing is near-statehood. Perhaps this is what a territory is but that is not what I am envisioning. The form of status, association and their parameters can be tailored to each situation.

As for the presence of bases, sure. The US has based all around the world. The local language isn't dying in these places due to the presence of bases, though sure there have often been tensions. (Not necessarily linguistic.)

Maybe the USA would offer Québec (or Canada) a Special Administrative Region status like Hong Kong received in China. How well did that turned out for the people of Hong Kong?

One thing we know for sure: Trump promises aren't worth anything, and neither is the United States signature under his reign.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

With the immigration levels we've seen recently in Canada, Québec will soon have very little leverage for anything. That is one of the unspoken reasons Canada is (or maybe was) so into mass immigration.

Nah. It's way simpler. People in Toronto aren't scheming about drowning out Quebec. They are scheming about propping up house prices though. Also, Québec controls its own immigration. Nothing stopping the province from letting in proportionally as many Francophones.

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Maybe the USA would offer Québec (or Canada) a Special Administrative Region status like Hong Kong received in China. How well did that turned out for the people of Hong Kong?

One thing we know for sure: Trump promises aren't worth anything, and neither is the United States signature under his reign.

I don't think this will end with Trump. He's the symptom. Not the disease.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

With the immigration levels we've seen recently in Canada, Québec will soon have very little leverage for anything. That is one of the unspoken reasons Canada is (or maybe was) so into mass immigration.

No.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Nah. It's way simpler. People in Toronto aren't scheming about drowning out Quebec. They are scheming about propping up house prices though. Also, Québec controls its own immigration. Nothing stopping the province from letting in proportionally as many Francophones.



I don't think this will end with Trump. He's the symptom. Not the disease.

Well, he is both actually, but I agree that it will not stop with him even if it isn't always as intense with someone else in power.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Three small states. One is essentially a suburb of Boston. Two are essentially small, rural white states that are agricultural and tourist areas for the whole Northeast Corridor. One of them also has substantial military spending. These are outliers.

Almost all states are substantively higher than almost all our provinces though.

I think Ontario is in the same ballpark as Mississippi.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

With the immigration levels we've seen recently in Canada, Québec will soon have very little leverage for anything. That is one of the unspoken reasons Canada is (or maybe was) so into mass immigration.

I think it is more true that Anglo-Canada does not (or did not) care about the socio-demographic impacts of mass immigration. In Quebec or anywhere else.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Nah. It's way simpler. People in Toronto aren't scheming about drowning out Quebec. They are scheming about propping up house prices though. Also, Québec controls its own immigration. Nothing stopping the province from letting in proportionally as many Francophones.
.

Quebec is far from having full control of who comes here
from abroad. It varies from 35-60% depending on the year.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Acajack and New Brisavoine in conversation:

• Video Link

Arnaud Soly and Stéphane Rousseau, both Québécois. Though I think Soly may have had French parents. And Rousseau had a career foray in France.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Nah. It's way simpler. People in Toronto aren't scheming about drowning out Quebec. They are scheming about propping up house prices though. Also, Québec controls its own immigration. Nothing stopping the province from letting in proportionally as many Francophones.

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No.

I am not speaking specifically about immigration into Québec, but more about immigration that is higher in the ROC than in Québec, so Québec's share of the population shrinks. Québec finds itself in front of a dilemma: do we get more immigrants than we cannot absorb or do we lose influence in Canada (dont tell me a lot of people wouldn't love that...).

Also, historically, Canada have tried to drown Québec in immigration. Representation by population wasn't implemented until the English became the majority; the point of the 1840 Union Act was to flood the territory with massive (British) immigration to force the assimilation and French Canadians; and in 1982 French Canadian were reduced to a just another ethnic group like any other in Canada instead of a founding people. And Québec affirming itself in any different way than the ROC annoys some people to no end and they would love to find way to stop that...

Another unspoken reason for immigration is that people come to Canada, not to Québec, Ontario or Alberta. So they only see their province like administrative government and not distinct place to live. When Ottawa wants to invade provincial jurisdiction, they see the provincial governments as hindrances the the True government instead of the real instance of power for provincial matters. Ottawa would love to reduce provinces as just organizations that blindly obey the federal government but takes the blame when something goes wrong.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Not true: as long as Donald Trump is breathing, it is certain that he will say something very stupid...

Not always. Il dit aussi des choses sensées et frappées au coin du bon sens. C'est pour ça qu'il séduit beaucoup de monde aux Etats-Unis.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Not always. Il dit aussi des choses censées et frappées au coin du bon sens. C'est pour ça qu'il séduit beaucoup de monde aux Etats-Unis.

Ce n'est pas TOUT ce qu'il dit est stupide, mais ce qu'il dit de stupide est très stupide. But when he burps, its kind of make sense though...

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

I am not speaking specifically about immigration into Québec, but more about immigration that is higher in the ROC than in Québec, so Québec's share of the population shrinks. Québec finds itself in front of a dilemma: do we get more immigrants than we cannot absorb or do we lose influence in Canada (dont tell me a lot of people wouldn't love that...).

What we're saying here is that the Rest of Canada isn't scheming to undermine Quebec. In reality, they great don't think about Quebec. That was the point of Quebec getting control over immigration itself. Now you're arguing that Quebec should get to dictate immigration in the rest of Canada too.

If you're worried about influence, the Constitution guarantees Quebec outsized power with the number of seats. I don't think that will change in our lifetimes.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Ce n'est pas TOUT ce qu'il dit est stupide, mais ce qu'il dit de stupide est très stupide. But when he burps, its kind of make sense though...

En même temps... even Trudeau/Macron/etc say stupid (or even very stupid) things from times to times. Of course the difference with Trump is the frequency of stupid to very stupid occurrences.

But in terms of general vision of foreign policy (and disregarding the past month) he seems to me to be more reasonable and "well grounded" than other presidents (if you skip the surface of the tweets). He wouldn't have invaded Iraq the way the (very stupid) George W Bush did, or withdrawn as stupidly from Afghanistan as Biden did. And he may really achieve peace in Ukraine, who knows! Whereas Biden was totally hopeless regarding Ukraine (and Gaza, where Trump managed to stop the bombing in 24 hours).

In domestic policy, I think he's less good, although his anti-woke stance was quite needed (but of course he expresses it in an exaggerated way).

[Zeej]

New provincial poll capturing the beginning of the Trump effect on provincial politics, both for voting intentions and support for sovereignty. Any guesses?!

Bonne lecture!

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2025/02/...ournaltva--la-crise-trump-profite-au-plq

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

But in terms of general vision of foreign policy (and disregarding the past month) he seems to me to be more reasonable and "well grounded" than other presidents (if you skip the surface of the tweets).

We cant escape the past month; he said he wants to have a forced deportation of the Palestinians in Gaza to countries that dont want them and probably dont have the resources to receive them to transform the land into a luxury resort. This is beyond idiotic. If a James Bond villain wanted to do that, this already over the top franchise would have jump the shark. That plan is crazy even for Dr Evil !

His basic plan is to not participate in any conflict around the world unless it is to create an American Empire. That is not well grounded.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

What we're saying here is that the Rest of Canada isn't scheming to undermine Quebec. In reality, they great don't think about Quebec. That was the point of Quebec getting control over immigration itself. Now you're arguing that Quebec should get to dictate immigration in the rest of Canada too.

.

Canada up until maybe 50-60 years ago basically had an unwritten policy objective of boosting the anglophone and English-oriented population in Quebec, to the detriment of the province's francophone majority. This is why it was so difficult for francophones from wherever in the world to move to Quebec, and there are many stories that tell this tale.

It's only very begrudgingly that Canada started to accept that immigration could also grow the country's francophone population. One of the arguments against Bill 101's school provisions back in the day was that turning immigrant kids into francophones would automatically turn them into separatists, and were therefore a threat to a united Canada.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

What we're saying here is that the Rest of Canada isn't scheming to undermine Quebec. In reality, they great don't think about Quebec. That was the point of Quebec getting control over immigration itself. Now you're arguing that Quebec should get to dictate immigration in the rest of Canada too.

If you're worried about influence, the Constitution guarantees Quebec outsized power with the number of seats. I don't think that will change in our lifetimes.

What I want is for the federal government not to meddle in provincial affairs, that way Quebec lower influence wouldn't matter that much. But I am afraid that it is not what most Canadians, especially newcomers, want.

Most Canadians may not scheme to undermine Québec (but they wouldn't mind if that happened...) but the federal government does (they also do that against other provinces too). International affairs are more prestigious, but healthcare and education are closer to the people. It is more fun for politicians to do both (especially if you can manage to make the provinces take the heat when things go wrong and arrive as a hero with "new" funding...).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

If you're worried about influence, the Constitution guarantees Quebec outsized power with the number of seats. I don't think that will change in our lifetimes.

It actually does not. The Meech Lake accord proposed to guarantee Quebec 25% of seats in the House of Commons (basically forever, regardless of population share) but it was rejected as we all know.

Sure you can guarantee that Quebec's number of MPs will never go below 75 or 78, but that makes no tangible difference if the number of MPs in the ROC continues to increase and Quebec's doesn't.

Right now Quebec has 78 out of 338.

In a few years it might have 78 out of 345.

And in a couple of decades it might be 78 out of 370.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

We cant escape the past month; he said he wants to have a forced deportation of the Palestinians in Gaza to countries that dont want them and probably dont have the resources to receive them to transform the land into a luxury resort. This is beyond idiotic. If a James Bond villain wanted to do that, this already over the top franchise would have jump the shark. That plan is crazy even for Dr Evil !

Bond villain indeed.

The Mad King even has a lair - it's called Mar-A-Lago.........