Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Could the CAQ turnaround over this? Legault doesn't get as big a bump as Ford by being a cheerleader for Team Canada but anyone pragmatic has to see the advantage of a steady pair of hands right now. CAQ have been good economic managers by any objective measure.

The PQ also has a decent reputation as a steady hand in government, no? Well, apart from that independence thing ...

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

How exactly is Quebec going to separate? The yes side sure as hell wouldn't win an independence referendum today, unless it was rigged.

... it's not like the US has a history of rigging foreign elections.

The last two referendums were very fair with only marginal suppression of student vote. Who's to say the next one they don't fudge the rules. Currently for in province tuition Quebec has different rules for those born in Quebec. They could easily say anyone not born in Quebec has to prove 5 years of residency. Besides eliminating students and recent migrants if would also require proof which of course will require waiting in line separately. Another trick could be registering people door to door which of course in urban areas would be a lot of leaving a we missed you not on the front of a building wheras in rural areas those hired would know how to do it. This was an issue when we had door to door voter registration.

The world has changed since 1995. Democratic fairness is less of a value in the world and getting what you want is more valued. Even if Quebec started as a bit of a fudge it would soon be forgotten. A lot of maybe even most countries are founded on a lie of some sort or the other.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Could the CAQ turnaround over this? Legault doesn't get as big a bump as Ford by being a cheerleader for Team Canada but anyone pragmatic has to see the advantage of a steady pair of hands right now. CAQ have been good economic managers by any objective measure.

There’s way too much voter fatigue to allow him to turn things around in a significant manner imo. I think his party would have better chances if he were to resign and someone like Simon Jolin-Barrette replaced him.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Agreed. The combination of Quebec secessionism and Trumpian expansionism would be lethal for Canada. We might survive one of these crises, but, the two together would be insurmountable.

If Québec can be its own independent country, then Ontario surely can too, even if the Western provinces and the Maritimes join the US.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

How exactly is Quebec going to separate? The yes side sure as hell wouldn't win an independence referendum today, unless it was rigged.

... it's not like the US has a history of rigging foreign elections.

They have also said that they could secede with a simple vote in their Assemblée nationale, without a referendum. It's always been assumed that it would be democratically impossible, but if we enter a world turned upside down then the rulebook gets thrown out the window basically.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

A lot of maybe even most countries are founded on a lie of some sort or the other.

The Boston Tea Party comes to mind...

PS: You have quite an imaginative mind to tamper with elections. You should make an offer of services at Mar-a-Lago. They are hiring. (they tend to be late in paying their wages though)

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I think his party would have better chances if he were to resign and someone like Simon Jolin-Barrette replaced him.

CAQ is a one-man party, like Macron's party in France. I can't see CAQ surviving the retirement of Legault, just as I can't see Macron's party surviving his retirement. They were just vehicles for a personal ambition (which I personally hate, as I think established parties make a democracy more mature).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

He's un-Canadian. He should be cancelled I say.

I am arguably one of the most Canadian people on this forum!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

CAQ is a one-man party, like Macron's party in France. I can't see CAQ surviving the retirement of Legault, just as I can't see Macron's party surviving his retirement. They were just vehicles for a personal ambition (which I personally hate, as I think established parties make a democracy more mature).

I do like Simon Jolin-Barrette who is a rising star in Quebec politics. He is widely considered to be a crypto-indépendantiste and almost talks like one much of the time. He gets taunted all the time on social media by PQ people who urge him to "come home" once and for all.

Though I do tend to agree there is a good chance that at some point in the future we could return to the PQ-PLQ duality. Even if it looks unlikely right now that the PLQ can turns things around. (I also feel QS and the Parti Conservateur have a good chance of fading away.)

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am arguably one of the most Canadian people on this forum!

You're probably one of the very few if not the only forumer who can speak both official languages with no accent and that could pass for a local almost anywhere in the country. Acadie, Gaspésie/Îles-de-la-Madeleine and Newfoundland may be the only exceptions.

[New Brisavoine]

Îles de la Madeleine bilingual? That's new to me!! I rather thought they were the übermost Francophones in Canada along with the Saguenay area.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I would think Trump should really jolt Quebecers into thinking about the sovereignty question. He's looking at Canada the way McKinley was looking at Hawaii. He won't be the last. This makes the idea of an independent Quebec a lot more questionable. More than likely a breakup of Canada may well mean forced inclusion into the US for all of us. At what point will they say, "That's where we get a ton of resources, and where a lot of the electricity for the Northeast comes from. We should secure it."

There are a few variables here.

First, it depends a bit on how the Trump tariff crisis plays out. The idea that "if Canada can't do anything against the US, how would an independent Quebec do?" can potentially cut both ways. I think I've said this before but if Canada (and therefore Quebec) gets screwed big time by the US, what's the use of being in Canada for us? If we are going to get screwed anyway, may as well manage our own affairs without interference, sabotage and guilt-tripped by Ottawa and the ROC. We're gonna get screwed regardless. We may as well be living in our own house.

On this front however, I am a bit more optimistic about Canada's chances. So a plus for national unity.

Another thing is that it's unlikely that Quebec would be eligible for full US statehood, or even seek it. It is the least digestible province for the Americans. As such some type of associated status (someone has already laid out parameters earlier in the thread) could be interesting for Quebec as it wouldn't be economically, diplomatically and militarily isolated, being under the US umbrella, but the Americans wouldn't care much about what language or social/societal policies we have if we're not a state.

So there is that to consider as well.

All of which is just politique-fiction of course.

Though so was Donald Trump becoming POTUS. Even once. Imagine twice!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Îles de la Madeleine bilingual? That's new to me!! I rather thought they were the übermost Francophones in Canada along with the Saguenay area.

I think he meant I couldn't pass for a local in those places due to the accent.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Îles de la Madeleine bilingual? That's new to me!! I rather thought they were the übermost Francophones in Canada along with the Saguenay area.

Yes it's a very francophone part of the country. But along with Gaspésie, the locals there have a specific accent compared to the rest of Quebec. Similar to Newfoundland vs. the rest of anglo Canada. Acajack doesn't speak French with such accent, so he could not pass for a local in those places.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

Yes it's a very francophone part of the country. But along with Gaspésie, the locals there have a specific accent compared to the rest of Quebec. Similar to Newfoundland vs. the rest of anglo Canada. Acajack doesn't speak French with such accent, so he could not pass for a local in those places.

Actually, the Acadien accent was the first accent I spoke with, since it was the accent both my parents had. Since we lived in anglo areas for much of my childhood it persisted for a fairly long time (English outside the home, French with an Acadien accent with my parents and siblings at home.)

I have a pretty standard Québécois radio-canadien-ish accent today after living here for so long, but can easily take on the Acadien accent. It even comes back naturally to some degree as soon as I am in the Maritimes for a few days visiting family.

When I come back to Quebec after a trip down there my Québécois friends sometimes notice a slight accent change.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by le calmar

Acajack doesn't speak French with such accent

How do you know?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

They have also said that they could secede with a simple vote in their Assemblée nationale, without a referendum. It's always been assumed that it would be democratically impossible, but if we enter a world turned upside down then the rulebook gets thrown out the window basically.

It has also always been assumed that it wouldn't set off a civil war ...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Another thing is that it's unlikely that Quebec would be eligible for full US statehood, or even seek it. It is the least digestible province for the Americans. As such some type of associated status (someone has already laid out parameters earlier in the thread) could be interesting for Quebec as it wouldn't be economically, diplomatically and militarily isolated, being under the US umbrella, but the Americans wouldn't care much about what language or social/societal policies we have if we're not a state.

I don’t think it’s that complicated. IMHO, it’s all about what value Quebec would have for them. Natural resources, electricity, a viable port… all would add value and security to the US. Whatever your culture or preferred language is would be of no concern to them. Quebec’s official language would be English, but the people would be free to speak whatever language they want amongst themselves. Not unlike the areas of the US with strong Spanish speaking cultures.

At this point, however, it’s a non-issue as Trump only has 4 years in office, and I suspect, outside of a massive military invasion, it would take much longer to play out. So you’re safe!

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

It has also always been assumed that it wouldn't set off a civil war ...

What wouldn't?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I don’t think it’s that complicated. IMHO, it’s all about what value Quebec would have for them. Natural resources, electricity, a viable port… all would add value and security to the US. Whatever your culture or preferred language is would be of no concern to them. Quebec’s official language would be English, but the people would be free to speak whatever language they want amongst themselves. Not unlike the areas of the US with strong Spanish speaking cultures.

You're talking as if we were still in the 19th century. That's how Québec would have entered the US in the 19th century, but there's no chance it would happen like that today.