PHILADELPHIA | 76 Place | GENERAL DISCUSSION

[PurpleWhiteOut]

I'm glad this thread is a containment zone, but to reiterate, no one is to blame here but the 76ers and Comcast. They struck the 11th hour deal. NIMBYs have nothing to do with it because it was APPROVED. If they wanted to move forward with the Market East locations they could

[Wynnefieldest]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

If this comment is true, you are part of the problem. If you don't spend your money in CC, how do you expect CC to get nice things?

There's no problem with shopping at KOP, but then don't rant that CC isn't living up to its potential.

Wait, so let me get this straight: the fact I have to drive around blocks in circles in traffic for 30 min. looking for a parking space thats monitored like a max security prison by the parking gestapo and if I miss a parking sign thats harder to understand then some SAT questions, my car will be hauled off to, well....down the block from the stadium, its my fault center city isnt living up to its potential? Wow.....the mentality of Philadelphians never ceases to amaze me!!

[Wynnefieldest]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Yeah I suppose. That whole area up there is dreary though. Honestly, I wouldn’t go back. South Coast Plaza is still a grade above it. Not just in terms of the building itself but also designer stores. I used to go there a lot when I grew up in OC. South Coast has Prada, Givenchy, Valentino etc. KOP does not. I’m frankly surprised they have the stores that they have.

Im no KOP apologist, but im so at a loss at the purpose of your post. KOP features Amiri, Balenciaga, Burberry, Bvlgari, Jimmy Choo, Burberry, Carolina Herrera, Ferragamo, Gucci, Marc Jacobs, Saint Laurent and damn near every other luxury brand there is and youre disappointed because theres no Givenchy and or Prada? BTW there is a Prada and Givenchy, its in Nieman Marcus section which is almost a mall of its own.

[Wynnefieldest]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I visited KOP with family from CA for the first time last summer. We were all expecting it to be like South Coast Plaza. It had some nice stores but we weren’t impressed. Seemed somewhat dated and dreary tbh. Not worth the hype and Walnut should be doing a much better job competing with it.

I mean, yeah.....KOP is literally not perched by the pacific ocean in southern California, down the street from Hollywood, so you'll have to forgive our lack of palm tree rows and 70 degree weather in January! BTW aesthetically, SCP look identical to KOP but the snobbery and pretentiousness of SCP is unbearable!

[Wynnefieldest]

Approved or not, its the mentality of this city!! Every inch of development and progress is contested by this citizenry like Germans on Omaha Beach. Philadelphians should have been screaming for joy at having a stadium supplant the current Dollar Store and Popeyes there now! And are they ever going to build a skyscraper on that god awful sinking parking lot on 8th and Market? That lot has been dying for a high rise since the 80's.

[Raja]

Originally Posted by Wynnefieldest

Wait, so let me get this straight: the fact I have to drive around blocks in circles in traffic for 30 min. looking for a parking space thats monitored like a max security prison by the parking gestapo and if I miss a parking sign thats harder to understand then some SAT questions, my car will be hauled off to, well....down the block from the stadium, its my fault center city isnt living up to its potential? Wow.....the mentality of Philadelphians never ceases to amaze me!!

Sounds like you should try transit or a parking garage. Yes, just like KOP mall, Center City has parking garages.

[Mr Saturn64]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

It would be very classic for DC to get a nice and transformative project while Philly gets the status quo. If the Commanders get a dome stadium where RFK was, it will host an insane amount of events, the location is incredible for a football stadium.

But also yes in general screw Chinatown. They weren't the reason it didn't happen but their constant backlash against any progress within 10 blocks of their neighborhood is nonsense. They have a sense of entitlement unlike any other neighborhood in Philly. They killed up the Phillies stadium at 11th and Spring Garden, it's still a dump. They killed the casino/hotel at 8th and Market, it's still empty. They tried to kill the convention center, it's a great project IMO. They tried to kill the commuter tunnel/Jefferson Station which is a transformative project. They complained about Patco reopening Franklin Square Station. They want the city to turn over the Roundhouse to PCDC FOR FREE so they can make a social housing project.

You just know that's going to happen. DC is going to get a brand new amazing stadium and host Super Bowls and all this stuff and all we're getting is a new arena to replace our perfectly good arena.

Agreed on the screw Chinatown sentiment. It's not like it's an actual historic neighborhood. It's an urbanist's nightmare: surface level parking lots everywhere, abandoned buildings, smells like a horse's ass, the list goes on. Not only are they the most entitled people in the city and have been dragging Center City down for decades, they are not really urban people.

There's been a common thread I've noticed with the Chinatown people and others who are happy about this: the general thought that we don't need a downtown arena, that Center City is fine as it is, and especially that we're "not New York." Suburban mindset.

I was thinking about what it really means to be urban, and I had this thought: urbanity is not so much a matter of where you live, it's a matter of mindset. That's why we're so far behind New York, Boston, and Washington. While those three are constantly revitalizing themselves, we're a raccoon fighting to defend our trash can.

[Wynnefieldest]

Center City parking garages are $20/hr KOP parking is free!! And you do know I could get murdered using Philly public transportation right?

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by Wynnefieldest

Center City parking garages are $20/hr KOP parking is free!! And you do know I could get murdered using Philly public transportation right?

Ok, you’re just trolling us now.

[jaysb]

Originally Posted by Raja

Sounds like you should try transit or a parking garage. Yes, just like KOP mall, Center City has parking garages.

This is the rationale of so many NIMBYs. The expect cheap/free easy street parking and will go out of their way to block anything that threatens that.

[UrbanRevival]

For the millionth time, the NIMBY boogeyman that keeps coming up is not to blame. It's entirely a red herring. Please, let's give it a rest.

This was 100% a bait-and-switch by corporate chess-players. Not a lack of political support, not a lack of vision by City Council. It was major business powers playing with smoke and mirrors.

If you want to bitch about someone, please direct it towards Josh Harris and Comcast.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Yes, I get up at 6am every Saturday wearing my big Fendi sunglasses and Uggs, Starbucks in hand and along with my pet chihuahua we take a business class Amtrak to NYC and then hire a private car to take us to Fifth Avenue. I’m totally not up there for work purposes every week and happen to do a bit of shopping now and then. Also the train takes like an hour twenty and can cost as little as ten bucks if you happen to find a good deal.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

For the millionth time, the NIMBY boogeyman that keeps coming up is not to blame. It's entirely a red herring. Please, let's give it a rest.

This was 100% a bait-and-switch by corporate chess-players. Not a lack of political support, not a lack of vision by City Council. It was major business powers playing with smoke and mirrors.

If you want to bitch about someone, please direct it towards Josh Harris and Comcast.

Yes, this is true. But the entire process brings to light the entire NIMBY argument which is why this outcome is being celebrated. This town is ruled by NIMBYists and it's why we will never compete with other big cities our size.

This was entirely about big business using the process to get what they wanted. But if this was shut down by The No Arena Coalition like they tried (and acted like it was because of them that it failed), it would have been 100% NIMBYism.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by Redddog

if this was shut down by The No Arena Coalition like they tried (and acted like it was because of them that it failed), it would have been 100% NIMBYism.

If my grandmother has wheels, she would have been a bike.

[ColdJay64]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Yes, this is true. But the entire process brings to light the entire NIMBY argument which is why this outcome is being celebrated. This town is ruled by NIMBYists and it's why we will never compete with other big cities our size.

This was entirely about big business using the process to get what they wanted. But if this was shut down by The No Arena Coalition like they tried (and acted like it was because of them that it failed), it would have been 100% NIMBYism.

It was Comcast and NIMBYs IMO, with the help of city council. Comcast's influence on local media magnified activist activity (that they may have been funding), which in turn influenced city council to make the process long and arduous with ridiculous demands.

Don't forget, our council members floated the figure of $300m as an "appropriate" CBA... A $300m extortion to allow a privately funded development in a failing area. I don't think the Sixers original goal was to use the process, I think it ended up being excessively difficult and at the final hour Comcast made an offer they couldn't refuse, so they pivoted.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Wynnefieldest

Center City parking garages are $20/hr KOP parking is free!! And you do know I could get murdered using Philly public transportation right?

This is so true. You could DIE if you take Philly public transit. I myself have been murdered on almost a daily basis for the last ~20 years on transit. It was ESPECAILLY bad when I took regional rail! But then bringing my son to/from daycare on the Broad Street line - always dead. Now taking the trolleys to/from West Philly to work or on the weekend, there's nothing left of me but dental records for the police to identify my body! In college, I also use to take the night owl up Broad and transfer to the 23 bus around 3-4a (depending on the line at Max's Cheesesteak), and my friends and I were ALWAYS robbed, then drawn and quartered!

But let's be serious for a moment here. Cars are not safe either. No, the only safe way to travel (and if we're assuming your from the suburbs walking isn't an option because that is for plebs and plebs alone), then you really need to fly to Center City. Yes, the best option is clearly flying to Walnut Street. Only safe way to actually travel.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by ColdJay64

It was Comcast and NIMBYs IMO, with the help of city council. Comcast's influence on local media magnified activist activity (that they may have been funding), which in turn influenced city council to make the process long and arduous with ridiculous demands.

Don't forget, our council members floated the figure of $300m as an "appropriate" CBA... A $300m extortion to allow a privately funded development in a failing area. I don't think the Sixers original goal was to use the process, I think it ended up being excessively difficult and at the final hour Comcast made an offer they couldn't refuse, so they pivoted.

Council got that number from the Chinatown association. From the start, Chinatown had a number they were willing to accept as extortion for the project. It was only after they were told that it was ridiculous that they started in on the whole "this is gonna ruin Chinatown" thing.

It was all about money from the get-go.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

For the millionth time, the NIMBY boogeyman that keeps coming up is not to blame. It's entirely a red herring. Please, let's give it a rest.

This was 100% a bait-and-switch by corporate chess-players. Not a lack of political support, not a lack of vision by City Council. It was major business powers playing with smoke and mirrors.

If you want to bitch about someone, please direct it towards Josh Harris and Comcast.

exactly

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

This is so true. You could DIE if you take Philly public transit. I myself have been murdered on almost a daily basis for the last ~20 years on transit. It was ESPECAILLY bad when I took regional rail! But then bringing my son to/from daycare on the Broad Street line - always dead. Now taking the trolleys to/from West Philly to work or on the weekend, there's nothing left of me but dental records for the police to identify my body! In college, I also use to take the night owl up Broad and transfer to the 23 bus around 3-4a (depending on the line at Max's Cheesesteak), and my friends and I were ALWAYS robbed, then drawn and quartered!

My condolences to you and your son. It cannot have been easy being murdered so many times. I recall being murdered, almost on a daily basis, with my toddler twin daughters on SEPTA.

[Wynnefieldest]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

For the millionth time, the NIMBY boogeyman that keeps coming up is not to blame. It's entirely a red herring. Please, let's give it a rest.

This was 100% a bait-and-switch by corporate chess-players. Not a lack of political support, not a lack of vision by City Council. It was major business powers playing with smoke and mirrors.

If you want to bitch about someone, please direct it towards Josh Harris and Comcast.

Untrue, the citizenry represented by their leadership tell corps what they can and cant do not the other way around! The hostility and horrific business climate, zoning process etc. laid down by this city is why we get these outcomes. This city could have forced Comcast and 76 to build their stadium at 30th street if they wanted to! Just like the city pretty much banned constructing anything above Billy Penn's head since the Revolutionary War!! Amazing now friggin Phoenix Arizona has surpassed us and San Antonio is next!!!