DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[laniroj]

It's getting pretty lonely on this page. I've really been hoping to see a wave of office conversion announcements but it's just not happening. Regulatory barriers - why aren't cities moving fast(er) to do away with these? For the life of me I cannot understand it - we don't need "study groups" we need action. We need the fire department to not request a second stairwell, we need code waivers for operable windows, we need energy efficiency and electrification requirements waived. Is this really so hard or do we just have a bunch of do-nothing nobody's leading our cities? Is it that hard to amend laws which create urban renewal districts en masse? What happened to bold leadership???? I was happy to see 6A passed by the peeps and then by Council, but that's just money. The real barrier to re-use is in the zoning, building codes, and city amendments.

https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/which-cities-would-benefit-most-converting-offices-housing

Rant over but seriously, municipalities need to act fast before American downtowns all turn into a 1970's NYC mad max scenario. We need not look very far back to see where this is headed.

Anybody on this page in the industry working on anything in this space? Anybody working in government and knowledgeable here? Any elected leaders reading this? Let's start talking and if that doesn't work, let's start screaming.

[mhays]

My area has streamlined code requirements and process and cut fees at the state and local level, but I can think of just one announced building looking into a conversion. (Looking at Seattle's code changes I don't see mention of operable windows or second stairs, though I haven't looked at all the referenced sections.)

Some might be today's general poor development economics. Some is building owners hanging on to offices in hope of more workers returning. Some is the opposite: developers waiting for rock bottom sale prices, which aren't happening due to banks propping up borrowers.

Worst of all, conversions still cost way more than new construction...or so I'm told, even after a lot of costs have narrowed.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by laniroj

It's getting pretty lonely on this page. I've really been hoping to see a wave of office conversion announcements but it's just not happening. Regulatory barriers - why aren't cities moving fast(er) to do away with these? For the life of me I cannot understand it - we don't need "study groups" we need action. We need the fire department to not request a second stairwell, we need code waivers for operable windows, we need energy efficiency and electrification requirements waived. Is this really so hard or do we just have a bunch of do-nothing nobody's leading our cities? Is it that hard to amend laws which create urban renewal districts en masse? What happened to bold leadership???? I was happy to see 6A passed by the peeps and then by Council, but that's just money. The real barrier to re-use is in the zoning, building codes, and city amendments.

Relaxing regulations doesn't justify government expenditures and endless rounds of studies by urban planners. Just think of it as a jobs program for those with the right mindset.


I mean, look at the development review and permit process and subpar improvement to those timelines to see that the city doesn't give too fucks about improvement. They'd rather backslap each other over building 60-units with public money then enable the construction of 600 units leveraging private money.


Hope I'm wrong on this pessimistic assessment, but I'll by cynical for now as Denver leadership doesn't appear to be terribly pro-private sector solutions.

Rant over but seriously, municipalities need to act fast before American downtowns all turn into a 1970's NYC mad max scenario. We need not look very far back to see where this is headed.

Anybody on this page in the industry working on anything in this space? Anybody working in government and knowledgeable here? Any elected leaders reading this? Let's start talking and if that doesn't work, let's start screaming.

The optimistic side of me wants to say that Denver leadership want to see how the completion of the Sixteenth Street Mall affects the CBD before pushing further on office to residential conversions. Also, building owners may be looking at how RTO mandates continues to play out (look at Amazon realizing they cut space too much space to have all their employees RTO). You're seeing a swing back on the pendulum that will affect occupancy levels and that will hit which projects need the public money for commercial to residential

[TakeFive]

This may not be new to you but it was news to me

Originally Posted by mhays

My area has streamlined code requirements and process and cut fees at the state and local level, but I can think of just one announced building looking into a conversion. (Looking at Seattle's code changes I don't see mention of operable windows or second stairs, though I haven't looked at all the referenced sections.)

Some might be today's general poor development economics. Some is building owners hanging on to offices in hope of more workers returning. Some is the opposite: developers waiting for rock bottom sale prices, which aren't happening due to banks propping up borrowers.

Worst of all, conversions still cost way more than new construction...or so I'm told, even after a lot of costs have narrowed.

BTW, while we speak I'm listening to Tchaikovsky's The Nutcracker Suite.

Very nicely done AP article by Jenny Kane

How one village became the Christmas capital of Washington state
December 24, 2024

(AP) — The scent of bratwurst and pretzels filled the air as horses clopped down the main street, hauling a carriage full of tourists. Nestled in her mother’s arms, a baby reached out to touch a shop window display, peering toward the sequin-covered reindeer behind it, as colorful ornaments twirled nearby.

Welcome to Leavenworth, Washington, the Christmas capital of the Pacific Northwest.

AP Photo/Jenny Kane

Having lived in the Roaring Fork Valley from Aspen to Glenwood Springs helps me relate to this story.

------------------------------------------

Where have I seen you before


Image via LoopNet

RiNo’s Rev360 office building, empty since 2020 completion, given to lender
December 24, 2024 By Thomas Gounley -- BusinessDen

The unluckiest office building in Denver has been given to its lender. San Francisco-based Shorenstein gave up the keys to the Rev360 ...

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5775 DTC Blvd, Greenwood Village


Image per CBRE

Local firm buys DTC office at 75 percent discount in bankruptcy auction
December 16, 2024 By Thomas Gounley -- BusinessDen

An office complex in the Denver Tech Center has sold through a bankruptcy auction for a quarter of what it fetched in 2018. Denver-based Valley Equity Group bought the building at 5775 DTC Blvd. in Greenwood Village last week for $4.5 million, according to public records.

[TakeFive]

On the positive side of the ledger

Aerospace companies choose Colorado over Utah, California for expansion
December 13, 2024 By Judith Kohler -- The Denver Post via Colorado Hometown Weekly

A California aerospace company that develops micro-satellite systems and infrastructure is expanding its operations to Littleton and is expected to create 141 net jobs.

Astro Digital, which also considered locating in Utah, provides satellite mission and flight support for such applications as Earth observation and communications.

And the second company?

Thursday’s announcement is the second in 10 days about an aerospace company expanding into Colorado. The Colorado Office of Economic Development and International Trade, OEDIT, announced Dec. 3 that Safran Electronics & Defense, a global equipment supplier for defense and space, will open a manufacturing facility in Parker to produce electric propulsion thrusters and locate a workshop for space telemetry ground equipment.

Not sure how big a deal but it's a Big Deal to see companies moving to the metro area.

Colorado’s aerospace industry is the country’s second-largest, behind California’s. Colorado has the highest per capita concentration of people in the aerospace industry, with 55,000 direct employees and another 184,000 employees who indirectly support the industry, according to OEDIT.

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MBH Architects Relocates Denver Office to LoDo
December 16, 2024 -- Mile High CRE

Award-winning architecture and design firm MBH Architects has relocated its Denver office to 1708 Wynkoop St., in the heart of Denver’s LoDo neighborhood. This move, led by Studio Director Joe Irwin, reflects MBH’s commitment to growth, deeper client engagement, and expanding its range of services to support a broadening portfolio...

This historic building in the Streetcar Stables complex combines modern functionality with classic design features, like exposed brick, high ceilings, and wood floors — a space that supports MBH’s focus on creativity and forward-thinking design.

Streetcar Stables Building -- 1700-1736 Wynkoop St


Courtesy Visit Denver

Again, not sure how big a deal but it's progress even if small.

MBH, based in Alameda, California opened a Denver office back in June of 2019 in the Republic Plaza Building.

[TakeFive]

Statistics can make me go ballistic but since it's modestly upbeat we will post it.

Tech Companies Accounted For About 20% Of Denver Office Leasing In 2024
December 13, 2024 By Jonathan Rose, Denver -- Bisnow

Denver has cemented its place as one of North America’s tech hubs, according to CBRE’s 2024 Tech 30 report, but office vacancy rates are still high and negative absorption plagues landlords and developers.

Tech companies accounted for 21.4% of Denver’s office leasing activity in 2024, on par with the national average of 21% in CBRE’s Tech 30. Venture capital funding also poured into the city’s tech ecosystem, with $1.1B secured in the first half of the year across 47 deals, including $38.1M for artificial intelligence-focused companies.

THIS IS COOL


Bisnow/created with assistance from OpenAI's DALL-E

The Denver metro ranks among the top markets for year-over-year office rent growth, according to the report, with rates climbing 5.7% as of the second quarter...

Downtown was the only Denver submarket to show positive absorption in Q3, thanks largely to UK-based online sports betting firm Bet365 moving its U.S. HQ into the Mile High City. The entire metro area saw nearly 1M SF of negative absorption in the same period.

We posted this earlier; it's downtown writ large as they absorbed a couple of floors in One Platte. It is 120,000 square feet which is a nice lease.

CBRE Senior Vice President Nic Weld told Bisnow... Despite challenges, Weld expressed optimism about Denver’s future. He highlighted the city’s highly educated workforce, tech diversity and increasing office attendance as reasons for long-term growth.

Nationally, the CBRE report says “most Tech-30 markets are entering the stabilization phase of the office market cycle.”

Even though tech companies have become more judicious about their space requirements their view of what and where they want to be is often different from many more ordinary businesses.

[TakeFive]

Whatever you are drinking... pour me a couple of glasses; It's 2025

Originally Posted by mhays

Some might be today's general poor development economics. Some is building owners hanging on to offices in hope of more workers returning. Some is the opposite: developers waiting for rock bottom sale prices, which aren't happening due to banks propping up borrowers.

Worst of all, conversions still cost way more than new construction...or so I'm told, even after a lot of costs have narrowed.

Denver deserves better than this:

Denver’s affordable housing shortfall could find an answer in its empty office towers
Sept. 4, 2024 By Aldo Svaldi -- The Denver Post

The Pew Charitable Trusts and the architectural firm Gensler have a proposition for Denver renters struggling to find a place to live that won’t bust their budgets. Would they take a studio apartment in a renovated skyscraper for $850 a month, under half the going market rent, with the catch being that they would have to share bathroom and kitchen space and likely skip a parking spot?

Pew and Gensler are proposing a co-living, aka dormitory approach, as the answer to two problems — creating more affordable housing units and saving Denver’s aging skyscrapers, many of which face economic obsolescence.

Problems; Issues but funky solutions are not the answer.

Plumbing water and sewer to the edge of a high-rise is expensive, and the large floor plates of buildings, especially those built after the 1970s, result in a lot of wasted space in the center. Design models that include windowless apartments are non-starters, and those with long stretched-out skinny apartments aren’t far behind.

I don't want just to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic; rather Denver should help to provide the same fate as the Titanic by demolishing "Plain Jane" office towers. It's the best way to use the $570 million bond measure to revitalize downtown Denver that I can think of by providing a share of the demo costs. Then let the market work its magic.

Thinking of Seattle

What little I know is enough. While Denver has RiNo, Seattle has at least three different neighborhoods as a part of the greater downtown footprint. mays might know the numbers but Seattle has built a slew of apartment and/or condo towers often reaching 40 stories or more.

Thinking of Phoenix

While downtown Phoenix may not be the hot office market location there has been I'd guess a dozen or more apartment towers built over the last dozen years as well as some nice mid-rise projects. IIRC, most are ~20 stories due to height restrictions from Sky Harbor. But 20 stories is plenty to make an amazing difference and impact which has really helped to activate the urban core.

Thinking of Denver

Denver deserves a variety of new residential towers right downtown that provide primarily market rate housing. I'm all for affordable units but I'd have to believe that an excess of hotel rooms would be so much easier to convert to affordable units.

[TakeFive]

Developing Developments for Denver

Props to Westword for being the 1st local media outlet to break the story.

Just for Kicks: Denver Is Getting a National Women's Soccer League Team
January 2, 2025 By Catie Cheshire -- Westword

Denver will soon have a professional women's soccer team in the National Women's Soccer League, since the ownership group made the first payment to the league required to start the team on December 31, 2024.

According to a report from Sportico, the group will pay $110 million to the NWSL as an expansion fee to establish the team. Supporters have called for a professional women's soccer team in Denver for years, formalizing that demand with the For Denver FC effort that began in June 2023 and used the excitement around the World Cup to show evidence that Denver's soccer fans were ready for a team.

When Angeli, Hubbard and Dunmore started For Denver FC, they told Westword that the lack of a pro women's soccer team in Denver was shocking. The $110 million expansion fee is more than double the previous NWSL record for new teams and is also the biggest expansion fee ever paid in U.S. women’s sports.

Who are the drivers behind this amazing new Denver sports franchise?

The controlling owner of the new team will reportedly be Robert Cohen, CEO of IMA Financial Group, a financial services company and longtime sports booster in the metro area. Cohen will be joined by Lakewood-born Jordan Angeli, a Major League Soccer and NWSL analyst based in Denver who played professionally herself. Ben Hubbard, Parsyl insurance company founder; Ton Dunmore, a former member of the Obama administration who has a background in sports marketing; and venture capitalist Nicole Glaros are also members of the ownership team.

Who is Robert Cohen, CEO of IMA Financial Group? Their offices are located at 1705 17th St #100, Denver, CO


Courtesy IMA

Who is Ben Hubbard, Parsyl insurance company? Their HQ is located at 2800 Walnut St. They also have an office in London.


Courtesy LoopNet

The new Franchise could start playing as early as 2026 at a temporary location. They do intend to develop their own exclusive facilities. This is nice achievement for Denver and just one more reason to like their future.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I don't want just to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic; rather Denver should help to provide the same fate as the Titanic by demolishing "Plain Jane" office towers. It's the best way to use the $570 million bond measure to revitalize downtown Denver that I can think of by providing a share of the demo costs. Then let the market work its magic.

IDK about your proposition to use the DDA bonding to conduct a DURA Skyline redux. Feels a bit icky and counter-productive. There will certainly be demolition of some towers downtown over the coming decades, but I suspect there is a good chunk of the B and C towers that are decently positioned for residential conversion as is (say 33%). This Pew/Gensler proposal is likely only applicable to one or two towers where a semi-market solution would work along with subsidies. But if you can get ~1,300 units into a building where ~300 units would normally go. I'd support putting $25M into doing such a conversion.

Thinking of Seattle

What little I know is enough. While Denver has RiNo, Seattle has at least three different neighborhoods as a part of the greater downtown footprint. mays might know the numbers but Seattle has built a slew of apartment and/or condo towers often reaching 40 stories or more.

Thinking of Phoenix

While downtown Phoenix may not be the hot office market location there has been I'd guess a dozen or more apartment towers built over the last dozen years as well as some nice mid-rise projects. IIRC, most are ~20 stories due to height restrictions from Sky Harbor. But 20 stories is plenty to make an amazing difference and impact which has really helped to activate the urban core.

Thinking of Denver

Denver deserves a variety of new residential towers right downtown that provide primarily market rate housing. I'm all for affordable units but I'd have to believe that an excess of hotel rooms would be so much easier to convert to affordable units.

Feels like you're talking about RiNo, Ball Arena, River Mile, and Golden Triangle that are/will provide a ton of market-rate units as well as some affordable options in towers ranging from 6 to 40-stories. Be remiss to not mention Amacon's four-tower development in downtown proper that will bring 1,000 units of for-sale housing.

So the development is occurring, the question is how to address the office situation downtown. Do you just start tearing down towers with public money, put public money towards office conversions, incentivize new residential development, or (the most likely) do all three?

[TakeFive]

We can agree to disagree

Originally Posted by wong21fr

IDK about your proposition to use the DDA bonding to conduct a DURA Skyline redux. Feels a bit icky and counter-productive. There will certainly be demolition of some towers downtown over the coming decades, but I suspect there is a good chunk of the B and C towers that are decently positioned for residential conversion as is (say 33%). This Pew/Gensler proposal is likely only applicable to one or two towers where a semi-market solution would work along with subsidies. But if you can get ~1,300 units into a building where ~300 units would normally go. I'd support putting $25M into doing such a conversion.

For starters the Gensler idea makes me nervous. To a point I love affordable housing but downtown Denver already has enough of an image problem to potentially add a project filled with 'trash' - OK, over-exaggeration perhaps but worth considering.

Additionally, I was relying on mhays whose expertise concerning construction is much smarter than mine

Worst of all, conversions still cost way more than new construction...or so I'm told, even after a lot of costs have narrowed.

Let me correct myself

since I couldn't even speak intelligently about where I live. Doing rideshare has me mostly avoiding downtown but I end up there from time to time but don't have time to count the number of stories etc.

For starters the height limit in downtown Phoenix is ~30 stories (for apartments). For example

Discover urban luxury living at PALMtower, a striking new addition to the Phoenix skyline by renowned Phoenix architect Will Bruder, a 29-story residential tower. Experience the epitome of luxury urban living ... where PALMtower is the hottest new destination for high-rise apartment living.

I hope you're not saying that other than say The Quincy that downtown doesn't deserve nice new things? The difference in architectural appeal and living style from a new-build rather than a converted warmed over blah is striking.

How about some downtown TOD

Central Station* – Expected completion 2025

This mammoth architectural undertaking by Multistudio balances a number of factors to transform the area into a “vibrant urban hub” of activity, including multiple residential towers, a transit center, and ground-floor retail space to greet the City of Phoenix bus and Valley Metro light rail commuters and shoppers. The 32-story residential and 21-story student housing towers add 655 units to Downtown’s inventory, with seven percent allocated as workforce housing. The project is set to open within the next two years.

Credit Holland Partner for building many quality projects in Denver but their most notable "The Platform" in DUS is 21 stories but on the whole DUS is much more mid-density than tall boys. BTW, they just broke ground on a 45-story apartment in Seattle -- that's what I'm saying that downtown Denver deserves: new construction from say 25 stories and up. For example The Quincy is 28 stories.

To think that Denver (downtown) would settle for way less that the nice apartments in downtown Phoenix sounds really strange.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Feels like you're talking about RiNo, Ball Arena, River Mile, and Golden Triangle that are/will provide a ton of market-rate units as well as some affordable options in towers ranging from 6 to 40-stories. Be remiss to not mention Amacon's four-tower development in downtown proper that will bring 1,000 units of for-sale housing.

I'm talking about downtown and not the nearby neighborhoods. Who knows in what decade or what River Mile will end up looking like. They haven't even started the So Platte river redevelopment. But yes, props to Amacon Towers. We need more like this in the CBD.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

...I don't want just to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic; rather Denver should help to provide the same fate as the Titanic by demolishing "Plain Jane" office towers. It's the best way to use the $570 million bond measure to revitalize downtown Denver that I can think of by providing a share of the demo costs. Then let the market work its magic.
...

THE MARKET IS COMMUNICATING to the City what it wants. Relax the building code for conversions, relax the fire code requirements to allow for conversion at all, remove all existing zoning barriers, streamline the permitting process, get rid of energize denver which kills ALL of these conversions B4 they even start, and distribute a giant pile of money to 5-10 projects. Will it be perfect, NO, but it will be a good result with a TON of downtown residential presence. We can require perfection and achieve nothing or we can roll with the punches and achieve great things. Will there be waste? Yeah. Will there be fraud? Yeah, probly. Back in the day, government and the people who ran it understood there would be waste and fraud but that was the price of moving fast and achieving big things. This concept seems to have been forgotten or abandoned in favor of overwhelmingly complex feel good regulations which....still lead to the same waste and fraud.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

...But if you can get ~1,300 units into a building where ~300 units would normally go. I'd support putting $25M into doing such a conversion...

Shoot, I'd be ok giving $50 million for 1,300 units. I don't think folks understand how much money Denver is losing and poised to lose as a function of lower property/sales tax and the spiraling downward effect of vacancy. It is in the City's best financial interest to avoid what is currently happening downtown. Even if the City were to spend a billion dollars or more on this stuff, it's maybe 5 years worth of the cost of an empty downtown which, by the way, takes DECADES to fix. It's as if the City learned nothing from the period between 1985 and ~2000.

[TakeFive]

"You can't make this stuff up"

U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics cutting Colorado off from monthly job reports because of continued data problems
Dec. 30, 2024 By Sarah Mulholland -- CPR News

Colorado’s employment outlook is about to go dark. Starting in March, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the federal agency that collects and publishes economic data, is suspending monthly employment reports for Colorado.

The development is due to problems with data collection that have plagued Colorado’s labor department since a new unemployment insurance computer system was introduced more than a year ago. The troubled rollout has led to incomplete information being collected on how many jobs are being created, making it difficult to get a true picture of Colorado’s job market.

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It's hard for me to wrap my mind around this one.

Colorado plummets in U-Haul’s ranking of growing states in 2024
Jan 3, 2025 by: Brooke Williams -- KDVR

DENVER (KDVR) — After several years of more people moving to Colorado than from Colorado, the Centennial State dropped 31 places in U-Haul’s ranking of states with the most growth in the U.S. in 2024.

Though this is the more important point which is a 'push'

U-Haul reports that of all one-way traffic in and out of Colorado, 49.7% accounted for those arriving and 50.3% for those departing...

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Originally Posted by laniroj

Shoot, I'd be ok giving $50 million for 1,300 units. I don't think folks understand how much money Denver is losing and poised to lose as a function of lower property/sales tax and the spiraling downward effect of vacancy. It is in the City's best financial interest to avoid what is currently happening downtown.

You can't avoid what has already happened. But how to proceed from here needs to be smart, not hasty or half-hazard.

Denver office building property values take a $2 billion hit as remote work endures
Dec. 22, 2024 By Sarah Mulholland -- CPR News

Empty office space in downtown Denver has been piling up ever since the pandemic ushered in the era of remote work. All that unused space is shaving billions of dollars off the city’s office property values.

In 2022, the average cost for a square foot of office space in Denver’s central business district, historically the heart of the city’s office ecosystem, was $357, according to CoStar, a real estate data company. Today, that same space costs $288. That equates to a loss of $2 billion over the past two years.

If there's disappointment with office conversions then the obvious comeback would be that "we started with a pig and all we could do is add lip stick on the inside and since costs were high all we could afford was cheap lip stick."

[mhays]

The Gensler idea seems like positives in every regard, if it can pencil and get financed. Any downtown would kill to turn a lot of its young admins, clerks, and students into 24/7 residents.

[TakeFive]

I like to look at the potential downside; what could go wrong

Originally Posted by mhays

The Gensler idea seems like positives in every regard, if it can pencil and get financed. Any downtown would kill to turn a lot of its young admins, clerks, and students into 24/7 residents.

Credit to the Denver Post article the description is not complete but decent. From the info provided it appears they're looking at a 28-story building.

A little humor to start off but not really relevant

Compared to say Seattle, Denver also has relatively lower construction costs, which makes the math work better, LeBlanc said.

Fair Point

Originally Posted by mhays

Any downtown would kill to turn a lot of its young admins, clerks, and students into 24/7 residents.

It's important to understand these spaces are primarily places to sleep. The shared kitchens are perhaps workable.

Each floor would have four kitchens with the usual fixtures and appliances, including a sink, microwave, electric range, oven, etc.

It's the bathrooms that concern me. Are they ripe for sexual assault? Does one have to reserve bathroom time? Do you just stand in line? Their description here is foggy.

The model assumes 44 apartments per floor ... The existing bathrooms would be repurposed and other single-use and shower stalls added to comply with city building codes.

Note: Denver already does allow and does have co-living units.

Originally Posted by mhays

Any downtown would kill to turn a lot of its young admins, clerks, and students into 24/7 residents.

Not counting students (Denver already has some student housing), I'm unsure how many of of those you list want only such meager space. Some, no doubt, at least temporarily.

Even if the city, building owners and developers decide the Pew/Gensler model can work, would tenants be willing to accept the trade-offs, such as a small private area and no parking spot?

Also a very fair Question.

[TakeFive]

What is currently out there in co-living or other affordable units?

1) The original X Denver in the Ballpark neighborhood at 3100 Inca St has 252 units starting at $821/month. Not only is there no waiting list they're offering up to three months free rent.

2) The newer 22-story X2 Denver has a new name following the lender (CIM) taking possession.

Velaris Living - 2130 Arapahoe St. These units NOW start at $1493 per month.

3) Auraria Student Lofts -- 1051 14th St. where monthly rent starts at $795.


Image courtesy Cardinal Group

4) Broadway Plaza Lofts at 2330 Broadway. These are real units with rent starting at $1075 a month with income qualifiers. They are offering up to two months free rent.


Courtesy Broadway Plaza Lofts, LLP

5) The Aloft Denver Downtown hotel at 800 15th St. was used as a homeless shelter during COVID and could make for a nice affordable conversion.


Courtesy Marriott Hotels

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

We can agree to disagree

For starters the Gensler idea makes me nervous. To a point I love affordable housing but downtown Denver already has enough of an image problem to potentially add a project filled with 'trash' - OK, over-exaggeration perhaps but worth considering.

Additionally, I was relying on mhays whose expertise concerning construction is much smarter than mine

Yeah, 1,300 shiny new affordable units aren't going to change that perception issue. I mean, if we fill them with paroled pedophiles it will create some juicy headlines, but that's not the intent.

mhays would correctly point out that the purpose of this conversion is to avoid the more expensive aspects of conversion such as the reconfiguration and expansion of plumbing.

Let me correct myself....

To think that Denver (downtown) would settle for way less that the nice apartments in downtown Phoenix sounds really strange.

Putting aside the rambling non-sequitur diatribe, this isn't a binary trade-off of building new apartment towers versus converting old office buildings. Both of these can and will happen. Denver has ~500 units of very nice residential u/c right now with other projects under development. But if one can minimize the number of demolished towers and the corresponding delay in filling these razed lots, since it took about forty years last time, that would be a good place to direct public funds.

I'm talking about downtown and not the nearby neighborhoods. Who knows in what decade or what River Mile will end up looking like. They haven't even started the So Platte river redevelopment. But yes, props to Amacon Towers. We need more like this in the CBD.

You mention Seattle's neighborhoods surrounding its downtown and residential development occurring there along with downtown Phoenix. Kind of sounds like you don't exactly know what you're trying to talk about- is it downtown specific or across multiple downtown area neighborhoods?

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

What is currently out there in co-living or other affordable units?

5) The Aloft Denver Downtown hotel at 800 15th St. was used as a homeless shelter during COVID and could make for a nice affordable conversion.

Plenty more than these five examples. But why would the Aloft Denver Downtown be converted?


Went by there last month and it seemed plenty busy.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by laniroj

THE MARKET IS COMMUNICATING to the City what it wants. Relax the building code for conversions, relax the fire code requirements to allow for conversion at all, remove all existing zoning barriers, streamline the permitting process, get rid of energize denver which kills ALL of these conversions B4 they even start, and distribute a giant pile of money to 5-10 projects. Will it be perfect, NO, but it will be a good result with a TON of downtown residential presence. We can require perfection and achieve nothing or we can roll with the punches and achieve great things. Will there be waste? Yeah. Will there be fraud? Yeah, probly. Back in the day, government and the people who ran it understood there would be waste and fraud but that was the price of moving fast and achieving big things. This concept seems to have been forgotten or abandoned in favor of overwhelmingly complex feel good regulations which....still lead to the same waste and fraud.

Energize Denver won't go away since there's too many green weenies who would raise political hell, but curious as to what you think about the recent reforms that were proposed to make the program less onerous:

https://milehighcre.com/city-proposes-updates-to-energize-denver/

[mhays]

The micro concept works, including shared kitchens and bathrooms. This isn't experimental or theoretical.

Usually these are in thin buildings. The only innovation in the Gensler study is that modern office towers with large floor plates can work too.

Shouldn't the working poor have better market-rate housing options, including the chance to live Downtown?