West Gatineau Tramway & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Politicians nowadays Govern with their opinions, not facts. Automated shuttles wouldn't have the capacity and would require an extra transfer if the tramway finishes in Hull.


https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/actua...e-un-liberal-2N6LS7MLJ5FFNKKFY7NZSZUVAU/

Changing gears at this point will be the best way to ensure NOTHING gets done.

[Richard Eade]

$163.5 MILLION DOLLARS just for the studies?

My bet is that, when the studies are done (and I expect that there will likely be more rounds of expensive studies) the $5B-10B price tag that they come up with will not be considered 'affordable' - so the project will be sent back for more studies, looking for alternatives.

And we wonder why infrastructure costs in Canada are out of line compared with some European countries.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

$163.5 MILLION DOLLARS just for the studies?

My bet is that, when the studies are done (and I expect that there will likely be more rounds of expensive studies) the $5B-10B price tag that they come up with will not be considered 'affordable' - so the project will be sent back for more studies, looking for alternatives.

And we wonder why infrastructure costs in Canada are out of line compared with some European countries.

Sure the study cost is ridiculous but there is no way any math works to connect a part of a car dependent suburb of what 50000 people to downtown in a fully grade separated fashion. That's obviously crazy.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Sure the study cost is ridiculous but there is no way any math works to connect a part of a car dependent suburb of what 50000 people to downtown in a fully grade separated fashion. That's obviously crazy.

I'd love for it to happen in the same way that I love when someone says "here, have a free beer!"

But I highly doubt this will see the light of day.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd love for it to happen in the same way that I love when someone says "here, have a free beer!"

But I highly doubt this will see the light of day.

Yeah if they can get a 50-50 Provincial Federal funding split why not.
I hope Ottawa finds a way to benefit instead of being obstructionist without an practical ask. Letting everyone travel between say two downtown Ottawa stops for free for example.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yeah if they can get a 50-50 Provincial Federal funding split why not.
I hope Ottawa finds a way to benefit instead of being obstructionist without an practical ask. Letting everyone travel between say two downtown Ottawa stops for free for example.

I am more optimistic about Quebec but it's the feds that will be the problem, either the Liberals having bigger fish to fry between now and Oct. 2025, or the Conservatives who probably won't be too keen on these types of big ticket vanity projects.

[Acajack]

Gatineau is also more valuable electorally to the CAQ with ridings it can retain in a PQ wave, than it is federally for the Liberals (likely to be one of their remaining bastions after the crash) or Conservatives (fairly unlikely to vote for them).

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Gatineau is also more valuable electorally to the CAQ with ridings it can retain in a PQ wave, than it is federally for the Liberals (likely to be one of their remaining bastions after the crash) or Conservatives (fairly unlikely to vote for them).

But likely to be doubly ignored by a PQ and Con combination. Also seems especially unlikely for the PQ to pay for civil servant commuters. In any separation the Ottawa part becomes especially useless.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

But likely to be doubly ignored by a PQ and Con combination. Also seems especially unlikely for the PQ to pay for civil servant commuters. In any separation the Ottawa part becomes especially useless.

Correct though we've still got almost 2 years to go before the next Quebec election. So plenty of time for the CAQ to commit on this and also this timeline gives the CAQ more hope (than the Trudeau Liberals) that they can turn things around electorally by then.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

$163.5 MILLION DOLLARS just for the studies?

My bet is that, when the studies are done (and I expect that there will likely be more rounds of expensive studies) the $5B-10B price tag that they come up with will not be considered 'affordable' - so the project will be sent back for more studies, looking for alternatives.

And we wonder why infrastructure costs in Canada are out of line compared with some European countries.

Those studies include the exact routing, urban design plan, engineering. The project could shovel ready when these studies are done. It's not just another study of should we or should we not.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Sure the study cost is ridiculous but there is no way any math works to connect a part of a car dependent suburb of what 50000 people to downtown in a fully grade separated fashion. That's obviously crazy.

The plan isn't for a fully grade separated route like the O-Train. The trains will have their own lanes on the street and hopefully some transit priority. More like ION in KW and the Valley Line in Edmonton.

That said, the cost will be ridiculous because transit costs in Canada have more than doubled in the last five years. Doesn't mean we shouldn't build it. There is no other solution, and any delay of a cheaper alternative will mean a worse project for a higher cost in 10 years.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

But likely to be doubly ignored by a PQ and Con combination. Also seems especially unlikely for the PQ to pay for civil servant commuters. In any separation the Ottawa part becomes especially useless.

Tbf, the Lévesque PQ did more for the Outaouais than possibly any other Government, but that might have been in an effort to buy more "Yes" votes. Doubt the new PQ would do much for the Outaouais, despite what they say (kind of like the CAQ).

[J.OT13]

Tramway de Gatineau: le fédéral paiera les études ontariennes
Par Lise Denis, Le Droit
15 décembre 2024 à 18h14

Le tracé du tramway de Gatineau va pouvoir être étudié dans son entièreté. Le gouvernement fédéral va financer les études reliées à la portion ontarienne du projet, a appris Le Droit.

Des fonds seront alloués à cet effet dans la mise à jour économique, lundi, selon une source proche du dossier, qui n’en dévoile toutefois pas la somme.

Cette portion, qui représente les deux derniers kilomètres du tracé, permettra de traverser la rivière des Outaouais pour aller jusqu’au centre-ville d’Ottawa.

Les gouvernements Trudeau et Legault se sont déjà entendus pour partager les 163,5 millions de dollars nécessaires à la réalisation des études reliées à la portion québécoise.

Mais le financement pour la portion ontarienne se faisait toujours attendre, le gouvernement de l’Ontario ne voyant pas de raison de financer ce réseau majoritairement québécois. Ottawa épongera donc la facture.

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/actua...-de-gatineau-4WAOG2KPDZH5ZJQ26XX5ANVPW4/

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Those studies include the exact routing, urban design plan, engineering. The project could shovel ready when these studies are done. It's not just another study of should we or should we not.



The plan isn't for a fully grade separated route like the O-Train. The trains will have their own lanes on the street and hopefully some transit priority. More like ION in KW and the Valley Line in Edmonton.

That said, the cost will be ridiculous because transit costs in Canada have more than doubled in the last five years. Doesn't mean we shouldn't build it. There is no other solution, and any delay of a cheaper alternative will mean a worse project for a higher cost in 10 years.

Tbf, the Lévesque PQ did more for the Outaouais than possibly any other Government, but that might have been in an effort to buy more "Yes" votes. Doubt the new PQ would do much for the Outaouais, despite what they say (kind of like the CAQ).

I don't mean so much the PQ ignoring the region though that too. But, if you have as your mantra separation it doesn't make sense to spend such an enormous sum to connect the region to Ottawa which would become obsolete. There would still of course be cross border traffic but a lot less to the downtown government offices. If you don't think separation is possible and it's just a talking point then sure but I think they are true believers.

[SweazyCavalry]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Tbf, the Lévesque PQ did more for the Outaouais than possibly any other Government, but that might have been in an effort to buy more "Yes" votes. Doubt the new PQ would do much for the Outaouais, despite what they say (kind of like the CAQ).

If there is one constant in Québec provincial politics, it's the lack of care for l'Outaouais. Realistically, we should have at least 1 more riding than we currently do. And it's all because it's not "nationalist" enough or too "close" to the national capital

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SweazyCavalry

If there is one constant in Québec provincial politics, it's the lack of care for l'Outaouais. Realistically, we should have at least 1 more riding than we currently do. And it's all because it's not "nationalist" enough or too "close" to the national capital

I don't think that's the case. The average for Quebec provincial ridings is about 75,000 people per riding, and all of ours are right around that.

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't think that's the case. The average for Quebec provincial ridings is about 75,000 people per riding, and all of ours are right around that.

The average is 51 000 voters per riding, with the legal maximum (+25%) being hit by two of our current ridings.

According to André Fortin, the current redistricting puts the Outaouais as the least represented region in Québec. He says the new map has the region's ridings at 15% above average.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kelnoz

The average is actually 51 000, with the legal maximum (+25%) being hit by two of our current ridings.

According to André Fortin, the current redistricting puts the Outaouais as the least represented region in Québec. He says the new map has the region's ridings at 15% above average.

I think that is "electors" and not total population, no?

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think that is "electors" and not total population, no?

You're right, I edited before seeing your comment! We're well above either way tho, since the data for population and voters you can find on wikipedia for say, the Gatineau riding, is from 2017.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kelnoz

You're right, I edited before seeing your comment! We're well above either way tho, since the data for population and voters you can find on wikipedia for say, the Gatineau riding, is from 2017.

There are always going to be ridings well below and well above the averages.

I don't think the Outaouais ridings are out of line in any way. Certainly not compared to some other regions.

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There are always going to be ridings well below and well above the averages.

I don't think the Outaouais ridings are out of line in any way. Certainly not compared to some other regions.

According to André Fortin, the Outaouais is literally the least represented region with the current redistricting map, so I'm not sure how it could be less out of line than others (if you have data that says otherwise, I'd love to see it, it's hard to find). There's been a lot of growth in the region since the last map, so it's way out of line imo.

The problem in this case isn't that ridings are above or below, it's that Outaouais ridings are systematically above. Obviously someone has to pay for the ridings and regions that are below (northern Québec and Gaspésie/Iles de la Madeleine being the biggest offenders), but the underrepresented voters should be distributed, not all in 1 region.

For reference, 15% above average for the region means there's an extra 40k voters, which is pretty close to the average riding size. That's why Fortin claims there should be another riding, and it would be really easy to move some Lanaudière/Laurentides population to make it work!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Kelnoz

For reference, 15% above average for the region means there's an extra 40k voters, which is pretty close to the average riding size. That's why Fortin claims there should be another riding, and it would be really easy to move some Lanaudière/Laurentides population to make it work!

Per the DGEQ website, the one riding of Gatineau is about 25% over quota, Hull is about 10% over, and Pontiac 7%. Papineau and - the other one, I forget - are they fully included in "the region"?