Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As I write this there is a large public Islamic prayer taking place on the square in front of Basilique Notre-Dame in Montreal.

Just a coincidence. Guess they could not find any other spot in the city for that.

The question is why do the authorities in Québec allow this to happen. This would never be allowed here.

[New Brisavoine]

On a side note, Legault came to the reopening ceremony of Notre Dame in Paris yesterday, but Justin Trudeau didn't. I think it speaks volumes. Even when the prime minister is a francophone from Québec, deep down they know they lead what's basically an Anglo-Saxon country. I cannot imagine that the prime minister of Canada would have snubbed the reopening ceremony of St Paul's Cathedral in London if it had suffered the same fate as Notre Dame. (note that Trudeau had been officially invited to the ceremony by the French government)

Anyway, Legault is making the most of it. Not very clever on the part of Trudeau (ditto for the German chancellor who also snubbed the ceremony, and who is criticized in German medias because that kept Germany away from the Trump-Macron-Zelensky summit that took place at the Elysée Palace just before the reopening ceremony).

François Legault a rencontré Elon Musk et Donald Trump à Paris

Le Devoir
8 décembre 2024



Le premier ministre du Québec, François Legault, a profité de l’inauguration de la cathédrale Notre-Dame de Paris, samedi, pour discuter avec le président américain désigné, Donald Trump, et son responsable de l’Efficacité gouvernementale, Elon Musk.

Dans une publication sur sa page X, François Legault a affirmé avoir échangé avec Elon Musk, le multimilliardaire et directeur général de la compagnie Tesla, au sujet « entre autres, de commerce international et de véhicules électriques ».

[...]

Pour Guy Lachapelle, professeur de science politique à l’Université Concordia, cette rencontre n’est pas aussi anodine qu’elle pourrait en avoir l’air. « Historiquement au Canada, c’est au Québec qu’il y a le sentiment le moins antiaméricain », juge-t-il. Mais, en contrepartie, l’accès au président américain a toujours été « limité » pour les dirigeants des provinces canadiennes qui dialoguent habituellement avec la Chambre des représentants américaine.

[...] Ces rencontres ont permis au premier ministre [Legault] de faire un premier pas pour installer un « plan politique par rapport aux États-Unis », que M. Lachapelle qualifie de « très important » dans le contexte de la future présidence de Donald Trump.

https://www.ledevoir.com/monde/825492/francois-legault-rencontre-elon-musk-donald-trump-paris?

Legault 1 - Trudeau 0

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The question is why do the authorities in Québec allow this to happen. This would never be allowed here.

Don’t you have public street prayers by Muslims in France?

As for why we have this here, look at KW’s message before yours. There is part of your answer.

Though this is not the majority view in Québec, where the government intends to address it.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have literally never seen Christians block traffic or take over a sidewalk while doing so. Have you?

As I write this there is a large public Islamic prayer taking place on the square in front of Basilique Notre-Dame in Montreal.

Just a coincidence. Guess they could not find any other spot in the city for that.

Let's not pretend it's blocking traffic or for sure not blocking the sidewalk that is a problem. I guess we are supposed to pretend whatever another culture does should just be accepted so it's not politically correct to point out but it's a foreign concept that is the problem. If they did it on the grass of Mount Royal every week I don't think it would be warmly welcomed either though no more disruptive than Tam Tams.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Don’t you have public street prayers by Muslims in France?

No, there were some fringe cases over the years here and there, but never in a central location such as the one you're describing in Montréal, and the authorities always managed to talk the local Muslim communities involved out of it.

Public prayers in France are allowed but they must not lead to public disturbance. They also have to be allowed by the local prefecture (for example, say, for a Catholic procession in the streets). A public Muslim prayer on the square in front of Notre Dame would 100% be outlawed by the prefecture of police of Paris, because of the risk of public disorder. In fact it would be outlawed in any major square or thoroughfare, because it would restrict the free movement of people.

Originally Posted by Acajack

As for why we have this here, look at KW’s message before yours. There is part of your answer.

That's not how the majority of people in Québec view this methinks.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

On a side note, Legault came to the reopening ceremony of Notre Dame in Paris yesterday, but Justin Trudeau didn't. I think it speaks volumes. Even when the prime minister is a francophone from Québec, deep down they know they lead what's basically an Anglo-Saxon country. I cannot imagine that the prime minister of Canada would have snubbed the reopening ceremony of St Paul's Cathedral in London if it had suffered the same fate as Notre Dame. (note that Trudeau had been officially invited to the ceremony by the French government)

Anyway, Legault is making the most of it. Not very clever on the part of Trudeau (ditto for the German chancellor who also snubbed the ceremony, and who is criticized in German medias because that kept Germany away from the Trump-Macron-Zelensky summit that took place at the Elysée Palace just before the reopening ceremony).


Legault 1 - Trudeau 0

Your bitterness towards Anglo-Canada is sad and pathetic.

Get a life in France, mon ami.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Let's not pretend it's blocking traffic or for sure not blocking the sidewalk that is a problem. I guess we are supposed to pretend whatever another culture does should just be accepted so it's not politically correct to point out but it's a foreign concept that is the problem. If they did it on the grass of Mount Royal every week I don't think it would be warmly welcomed either though no more disruptive than Tam Tams.

I suppose this is part of it though I don’t think mass random disruptive Catholic prayer gatherings on Ste-Catherine would be welcome either in Québec.

As it stands right now there is really only one group that is aggressive and provocative with public displays of its religion.

I mean, how could they not draw attention? It is clearly their goal.

[theman23]

Invitations were extended to heads of state, which Trudeau is not. Anyways it’s very easy to imagine Trudeau not attending a reopening ceremony at St Paul’s cathedral because thats probably what would most likely happen. And most Canadians wouldn’t care.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I suppose this is part of it though I don’t think mass random disruptive Catholic prayer gatherings on Ste-Catherine would be welcome either in Québec.

As it stands right now there is really only one group that is aggressive and provocative with public displays of its religion.

I mean, how could they not draw attention? It is clearly their goal.

I think this is only partially true. Quebec secularism may make a new "foreign" religion more offensive but it's the foreignness that is most troublesome to most people. Ukrainians spilling out from Easter service won't be treated the same way.

I think Islam is pretty clearly less compatible with Quebec's values but it's not politically correct to say that and for many it's more base racism that leads to support for Bill 21 and the new ban on public religious ceremonies.
I wonder what would happen if we had a large number of French speaking extreme Catholics try and set up a colony in Montreal. Maybe not allowing their employee health coverage to cover birth control and trying to object to science curriculum.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by theman23

Invitations were extended to heads of state, which Trudeau is not. Anyways it’s very easy to imagine Trudeau not attending a reopening ceremony at St Paul’s cathedral because thats probably what would most likely happen. And most Canadians wouldn’t care.

Actually Trudeau was invited but chose not to attend. Or at least « Canada » was invited. We could have sent the GG as well but did not.

François Legault was also invited.

Garou the main singer was Québécois and he sang songs from the musical Notre-Dame de Paris written by Luc Plamondon, another Québécois.

Macron introduced Legault to Trump and they had a 10 minute conversation.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

On a side note, Legault came to the reopening ceremony of Notre Dame in Paris yesterday, but Justin Trudeau didn't. I think it speaks volumes. Even when the prime minister is a francophone from Québec, deep down they know they lead what's basically an Anglo-Saxon country. I cannot imagine that the prime minister of Canada would have snubbed the reopening ceremony of St Paul's Cathedral in London if it had suffered the same fate as Notre Dame. (note that Trudeau had been officially invited to the ceremony by the French government)

Anyway, Legault is making the most of it. Not very clever on the part of Trudeau (ditto for the German chancellor who also snubbed the ceremony, and who is criticized in German medias because that kept Germany away from the Trump-Macron-Zelensky summit that took place at the Elysée Palace just before the reopening ceremony).


Legault 1 - Trudeau 0

The difference is that King Charles is the supreme governor of the Church of England, and he is also the monarch of Canada. We don't have the same constitutional relationship with France. Maybe Trudeau was busy speaking French somewhere else. C'est bon.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I think this is only partially true. Quebec secularism may make a new "foreign" religion more offensive but it's the foreignness that is most troublesome to most people. Ukrainians spilling out from Easter service won't be treated the same way.

I think Islam is pretty clearly less compatible with Quebec's values but it's not politically correct to say that and for many it's more base racism that leads to support for Bill 21 and the new ban on public religious ceremonies.
I wonder what would happen if we had a large number of French speaking extreme Catholics try and set up a colony in Montreal. Maybe not allowing their employee health coverage to cover birth control and trying to object to science curriculum.

Islam currently has a combative almost crusade-like side that no other major religion does. So there is that.

But even so I do not think a comparable push from any other religion, even Christian, would not be pushed back on in Québec.

In this sense I do think Québec is more consistent than the ROC. There a Christian push would not be welcomed and would be resisted, but stuff from religions newer to Canada is tolerated and even embraced and fetishized.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I suppose this is part of it though I don’t think mass random disruptive Catholic prayer gatherings on Ste-Catherine would be welcome either in Québec.

As it stands right now there is really only one group that is aggressive and provocative with public displays of its religion.

I mean, how could they not draw attention? It is clearly their goal.

Is it coincidence that the event you describe seems to have taken place one day after Legault's musings about banning praying in public?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by theman23

Invitations were extended to heads of state, which Trudeau is not. Anyways it’s very easy to imagine Trudeau not attending a reopening ceremony at St Paul’s cathedral because thats probably what would most likely happen. And most Canadians wouldn’t care.

Well, neither is Legault but Trudeau declined the invite to attend a Polytechnique memorial.

[theman23]

Many churches provide sunrise services at public parks on Easter and no one says a thing. With respect, you don't know the ROC as well as you think you do.

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Well, neither is Legault but Trudeau declined the invite to attend a Polytechnique memorial.

He could have attended both, but again - it hardly matters. The opening of a church is not a must attend event for a Canadian Prime Minister.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Is it coincidence that the event you describe seems to have taken place one day after Legault's musings about banning praying in public?

The prayer in front of the Basilique was planned at least a week before or more. There were social media posts advertising it in late November.

So no.

If anything Legault's comments may have been in reaction to it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by theman23

Many churches provide sunrise services at public parks on Easter and no one says a thing. With respect, you don't know the ROC as well as you think you do.
.

Pretty sure I know the ROC way better than any of the ROC posters who post on here know Quebec. Most of whom don’t even understand French!

Anybody wanna challenge me to a pop quiz?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by theman23

He could have attended both, but again - it hardly matters. The opening of a church is not a must attend event for a Canadian Prime Minister.

Valid point though good management of diplomatic relations requires the assessment of who is going to be at an event before making an informed decision about whether to go or not.

I believe Macron chose a photo with Trump for his social media post about the « « world » joining him in Paris for the reopening.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by theman23

Invitations were extended to heads of state, which Trudeau is not.

Malgré une invitation envoyée par les Français, le bureau de Justin Trudeau a confirmé que le premier ministre serait plutôt à Montréal pour assister à la commémoration de la tuerie de Polytechnique, vendredi soir.

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2024/12/...-paris-pour-la-reouverture-de-notre-dame

Several heads of governments (who are not heads of states) came: the PM of Italy, The Netherlands, Austria, Armenia, Serbia, Albania, São Tomé and Principe.

Originally Posted by theman23

Trudeau not attending a reopening ceremony at St Paul’s cathedral ... And most Canadians wouldn’t care.

I very much doubt it. In a Canada where 80% of the population would be Francophone, and the 20% of Anglophones a historically dominated minority, for the PM snubbing the reopening of St Paul's Cathedral, no controversy really?

It's just one of these many bizarre decisions by Trudeau. Not to mention it's a bit of a diplomatic own-goal, as it would have allowed him to meet Trump on the sidelines and improve his relationship with him. For that reason, the absence of Keir Starmer and Olaf Scholz was criticized in the British and German press.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Islam currently has a combative almost crusade-like side that no other major religion does. So there is that.

I think you mean a jihadi like side.

Islamists don't like crusades (or crusaders).