Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When I was a kid we lived in Ontario for a time in the 1970s and I went to a fairly new French school which shared a common gym with an English school. The gym was in the middle and one corridor led to the French school and another led to the English school.

While I was there a bunch of kids (aged 12-13 so a lot older than me) from the English school beat the crap out of our school's principal one day, with bicycle chains and baseball bats.

Monsieur le Directeur showed up the next day with his arm in a sling and a black eye.

That’s horrible. Poor director.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

He'll be back. He's always back. He secretly greatly enjoys this thread in fact. You know, like those US puritans of old who secretly were very curious about the nude-women cabarets in Paris...

Hilarious comment

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

My neighbor in Paris is a single-mom Armenian woman. She spends 1/3 of the time speaking French (without a foreign accent), 1/3 speaking British English (with very good British accent), and 1/3 speaking Armenian.

Mom and son shout and fight all the time (20 something son still leaving with his mom).

Sounds like one of Aznavour’s songs…

( I forgot the name but it’s about a son who lives with his mom and a cat in a small apartment, probably my least favorite song of his )

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

On the international scale, Israeli and Palestinians are Middle-Easterners...

I hope it’s safe to say that English-french relations here are better than Israeli-palestinian

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Even on a smaller-than-international scale, Catholic Irish and Northern Irish are the same people. Like, at the sub-international scale of "The British Isles", you have the Anglo-Saxons, the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish (regardless of religion).

Yet they cannot even accept to share a country (and were often at each other's throats).

A lot of Protestants in Northern Ireland are actually descendants of Scots who crossed across the water centuries ago. They don't like it when that is brought up and of course consider themselves as Irish as any Catholic. Even if they still venerate the King (Queen).

[kool maudit]

People are basically infinitely divisible given the right conditions.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Actually their languages are closer in some respects than French and English. Words in both languages have the same origin (especially since the guy who revived Hebrew around 1900 coined lots of neologisms based on Arabic roots, which he found more authentic than simply importing European words).

Even their alphabets. Someone created an Arab-Hebrew hybrid language that is mutually intelligible for everyone. Like the lower half of the letter is Arab and the top half is Hebrew or something of the sort.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

People are basically infinitely divisible given the right conditions.

It’s a gift and a curse…

[lio45]

Originally Posted by AverageMonctonEnjoyr

Sounds like one of Aznavour’s songs…

( I forgot the name but it’s about a son who lives with his mom and a cat in a small apartment, probably my least favorite song of his )

New Brisavoine's recent post about how grey Northern winters are made me think of him actually. I'm sure I don't need to explain which song

There's nowhere here that doesn't get at least some sun from time to time, regardless of the time of year, so that's quite foreign to us here.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

People are basically infinitely divisible given the right conditions.

Exactly. And it also doesn't take that much to start to have them massacring each other, after they've been divided.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Why did they do that?

There were lots of French-English tensions at the time, with Québécois agitating more and more, and francophones outside Quebec asking for institutional reparation - which in a lot of cases meant restoring French education which hadn't been offered in 75-100 years, or had never really been offered to francophones in some provinces.

Among a lot of anglophones in the ROC there was considerable opposition to francophones being educated in their language, as it was seen as separating people (and of course this evoked Quebec separatism which was on the rise at the time). BTW there were quite a few francophones who were also opposed to the French schools and instead advocated for bilingual schools where anglophones and francophones would learn together. These schools did exist in some places but basically most teaching was in English (with some token French classes) and of course all other school activity was in English.

Ironically of course I was in a Franco-Ontarian school and Franco-Ontarians were basically all opposed to Quebec separation.

But we still got hated on anyway.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

People are basically infinitely divisible given the right conditions.

Yup. A Franco-Norwegian friend of mine who lived in Stockholm told me how Swedish people made fun of his Swedish accent.

(PS: For those who don't understand this comment: the official language of Norway is basically the same as Swedish, but they have an accent, a "country, bumpkin" accent according to the Swedes)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

New Brisavoine's recent post about how grey Northern winters are made me think of him actually. I'm sure I don't need to explain which song

There's nowhere here that doesn't get at least some sun from time to time, regardless of the time of year, so that's quite foreign to us here.

Moi qui n'ai connu toute ma vie que le ciel du nord
J'aimerais débarbouiller ce gris, en virant de bord
Emmenez-moi au bout de la terre
Emmenez-moi au pays des merveilles
Il me semble que la misère
Serait moins pénible au soleil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OrKMaeQUx0

It also features prominently in the fantastic Québécois movie C.R.A.Z.Y. with the late great Michel Côté.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKF3Cgc34AY

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

As we say in French: "voir la paille dans l’œil du voisin et ne pas voir la poutre dans le sien".

Tu cites les Évangiles maintenant, Bris ? C'est nouveau.
Qu'est-ce qui t'arrive ? Merde, une femme t'a blessé ?
Ou tu as vu trop de gens fouiller dans les poubelles pour trouver à bouffer en plein Paris et ça t'écœure... C'est bien possible.
Je croyais qu'on était que des crétins de bondieusards.

Certes, en tant que juriste, tu t'exprimes, mais dans la foi chrétienne, l'éloquence ne suffit pas.
C'est un certain regard sur le monde et une interprétation subtile de l'existence.
Un genre de philosophie qui t'imprègne, oserais-je dire.

C'est toujours mieux que l'horoscope ou le marxisme quand tu cherches la solution. Lol.
Je regrette que beaucoup dans notre pays ne l'aient pas encore compris.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

T
Ironically of course I was in a Franco-Ontarian school and Franco-Ontarians were basically all opposed to Quebec separation.

But we still got hated on anyway.

You really think you got "hated on"?

I suppose that I could say the same, even though I was in French Immersion throughout elementary and high school, being an Anglo I "still got hated on anyway."

I suspect that the truth is that while some people may have hated Anglos/Francos just because they (the haters, that is) are fucking assholes (haters gonna hate), most people have no problem, or are indifferent, or maybe (perhaps a significantly greater proportion than the 'haters') are supportive.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

You really think you got "hated on"?

I suppose that I could say the same, even though I was in French Immersion throughout elementary and high school, being an Anglo I "still got hated on anyway."

I suspect that the truth is that while some people may have hated Anglos/Francos just because they (the haters, that is) are fucking assholes (haters gonna hate), most people have no problem, or are indifferent, or maybe (perhaps a significantly greater proportion than the 'haters') are supportive.

I've never denied that anglos in Quebec got hated on.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Tu cites les Évangiles maintenant, Bris ? C'est nouveau.
Qu'est-ce qui t'arrive ? Merde, une femme t'a blessé ?
Ou tu as vu trop de gens fouiller dans les poubelles pour trouver à bouffer en plein Paris et ça t'écœure... C'est bien possible.
Je croyais qu'on était que des crétins de bondieusards.

Certes, en tant que juriste, tu t'exprimes, mais dans la foi chrétienne, l'éloquence ne suffit pas.
C'est un certain regard sur le monde et une interprétation subtile de l'existence.
Un genre de philosophie qui t'imprègne, oserais-je dire.

C'est toujours mieux que l'horoscope ou le marxisme quand tu cherches la solution. Lol.
Je regrette que beaucoup dans notre pays ne l'aient pas encore compris.

Il est grand le mystère de la foi...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

New Brisavoine's recent post about how grey Northern winters are made me think of him actually. I'm sure I don't need to explain which song

There's nowhere here that doesn't get at least some sun from time to time, regardless of the time of year, so that's quite foreign to us here.

Yesterday was FINALLY sunny (after a tunnel of several days of constant grayness), and then today, thought important enough to be newsworthy in Le Figaro:

Météo du mercredi 6 novembre : beaucoup de grisailles dans toute la moitié nord

Une épaisse grisaille brumeuse est attendue sur la moitié nord et du soleil printanier est à prévoir au sud de la France.

https://www.lefigaro.fr/meteo/meteo-du-6...illes-dans-toute-la-moitie-nord-20241105

Fucking weather forecast had said we would have 3 days of sunshine with temperature around 16 degrees, and now suddenly it's been changed to all gray and no more than 12 degrees.

Meanwhile, 20 degrees and sunshine in Toulouse today. I was thinking earlier today, why didn't our kings establish they capital in southern France?!!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Yesterday was FINALLY sunny (after a tunnel of several days of constant grayness), and then today, thought important enough to be newsworthy in Le Figaro:




Fucking weather forecast had said we would have 3 days of sunshine with temperature around 16 degrees, and now suddenly it's been changed too all gray and no more than 12 degrees.

Meanwhile, 20 degrees and sunshine in Toulouse today. I was thinking earlier today, why didn't our kings establish they capital in southern France?!!

Pretty sure I've posted this before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_H4aB5vtmE

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Yup. A Franco-Norwegian friend of mine who lived in Stockholm told me how Swedish people made fun of his Swedish accent.

(PS: For those who don't understand this comment: the official language of Norway is basically the same as Swedish, but they have an accent, a "country, bumpkin" accent according to the Swedes)

I have never heard it disparaged. Most people say that it has a "sing-songy" quality, but not bumpkin-ish.

I'm sure this is out there but in my experience, the hard-edged rivalry is with the Danes.

(Sadly, now that the Norwegians have their oil and the Danes their Ozempic... Sweden is the sick man of Scandinavia)