Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Actually I've found the song she was singing. It's this one. Here in Europe we really dislike Country music, but some Country songs can be really good (once in a long while).

• Video Link

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Actually I've found the song she was singing. It's this one. Here in Europe we really dislike Country music, but some Country songs can be really good (once in a long while).

• Video Link

Never heard this song before.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I've noticed that. Like I've said, I think it's people with empty lives. No more God, no more political parties, unions, utopia. All that is left is emptiness and consumer goods. So they need to invent something that they can worship. It's silly really.

That said, in the documentary yesterday (of which I watched only a few minutes, about her childhood, I stopped when she became famous), I must say she sang some good songs when she was like 12-14 (one of her songs was actually great, although it was not hers, it's apparently a famous country song, but I couldn't note the name). I was like "uh, why doesn't she sing things like that anymore? that was actually rather good". Also, I think she looked much better when she was a teenager, she looked more natural, and very pretty, whereas now I find her fake in her look, not very attractive, too "polished" and sleek, and I don't like her haircut (her haircut when she was 15 was nice).

The past 100 songs that she ‘wrote’ ( if it wasn’t ChatGPT ) can be summed up to ‘I hate men’ or ‘I always fall for a bad guy’. I know girls who seriously adore her like a god or a cult leader. This annoys me. I wish people had a religion or culture to be attached to instead of a billionaire who flies around in private jets.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Correct. It would have to be something like an reverse version of Croatia (look at it on a map),
from the Madawaska in the NW across the top including Restigouche then to the coast with the Péninsule then down to the southeast towards Shediac and Cap-Pelé. Dieppe would be included but not the city of Moncton.

Unlikely for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that this area would be very predominantly francophone but there are still anglo communities here and there that would be caught in the middle.

These guys wanted to do it 40-50 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_acadien

I just read about parti Acadien lol. They never stood a chance.
Yeah Acadia would basically be all of Nouvelle-France so New Brunswick, northern Maine, Nova Scotia and maybe even Prince Edward Island. Basically all of Atlantic Canada. If the english had never ethnically cleansed all of Acadia it would have been plausible though.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by AverageMonctonEnjoyr

I just read about parti Acadien lol. They never stood a chance.
Yeah Acadia would basically be all of Nouvelle-France so New Brunswick, northern Maine, Nova Scotia and maybe even Prince Edward Island. Basically all of Atlantic Canada. If the english had never ethnically cleansed all of Acadia it would have been plausible though.

It was never confirmed but there were tons of rumours that it was secretly associated with the Parti Québécois.

Which of course was the kiss of death in hyper-Liberal and federalist Acadian parts of New Brunswick.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It is not familiar to me but it's possible it was shown in Quebec. I can't find any references to it however.

Fun fact: Japanese mangas actually became popular in Quebec before they became known in the rest of North America. Because Quebec speaks French and we got the mangas from contacts with France.

When I was a kid for a time I lived in a medium-sized Anglo-Canadian city and went to English school. Comics and animation were all DC Comics and Marvel comics from the US. Then I went to visit my very francophone cousins in northern New Brunwick and Québec (in small villages) and they were all in love with Japanese mangas. None of my anglophone classmates in the city had every heard of them at that point.

Another fun fact is that for some reason British progressive rock music gained its first foothold in North America in Quebec. I don't have an explanation for that one, so it's a mystery to me.

It seems francophones all over the world have a crazy obsession on anime and Manga. From french people to québécois and francophone Africans we all adore japanese media. If you look at the history of distribution of anime in the western world, it all starts from france. Dragon ball for example, was dubbed in french, and then all the other languages based their dubs on the french dub instead of the original japanese dub because of how devoted the french were to anime. French people don’t bathe or shower as they are too busy reading manga and watching anime.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It was never confirmed but there were tons of rumours that it was secretly associated with the Parti Québécois.

Which of course was the kiss of death in hyper-Liberal and federalist Acadian parts of New Brunswick.

Pretty sure they ended up not even having enough candidates to run once

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by AverageMonctonEnjoyr

Would be impossible. We’re just spread out on too large of a territory.

I don't think there's any physical impossibility. It's more a lack of political will really (or just you guys being subconsciously convinced that it cannot ever happen).

This map shows majority French-speaking and majority English-speaking areas in the census. The green line could be the border of that new Province d'Acadie. Were it India, local politicians would have asked for that separate province long ago already. Even in Switzerland these things happen (the French-speaking canton of Jura separated from the German-speaking canton of Bern in 1978).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by AverageMonctonEnjoyr

It seems francophones all over the world have a crazy obsession on anime and Manga. From french people to québécois and francophone Africans we all adore japanese media. If you look at the history of distribution of anime in the western world, it all starts from france. Dragon ball for example, was dubbed in french, and then all the other languages based their dubs on the french dub instead of the original japanese dub because of how devoted the french were to anime. French people don’t bathe or shower as they are too busy reading manga and watching anime.

Not sure about the albums but many of the manga-based animated TV shows were never really shown in Anglo North America. I suppose there were English soundtracks made for the biggies like Albator (which even has an English name, Captain Harlock, that I've seen) or Goldorak, but I've never met an anglophone who knew them who didn't have some sort of connection to francophone Canada that they got it from.

Your average anglo has never heard of them.

Other more innocent programs like Le Petit Castor, Candy, Mini-Fée and Démétan, were also mangas. Though I didn't know it at the time.

They're also totally unknown to anglophones.

The one breakthrough series in Anglo North America in the 1980s was The Battle of the Planets (La Bataille des Planètes), also known as G-Force. This was not the original Japanese show with a translated, but was actually remade by the Americans.

The highlighted probably explains its success.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Unlikely for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that this area would be very predominantly francophone but there are still anglo communities here and there that would be caught in the middle.

So, very much like Québec?

Imagine the prime minister of Canada in the 19th century telling you guys: no, you cannot have your province of Québec (or Lower Canada), because there would be some Anglo communities here and there in it caught in the middle of you French Canadians...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I don't think there's any physical impossibility. It's more a lack of political will really (or just you guys being subconsciously convinced that it cannot ever happen).

This map shows majority French-speaking and majority English-speaking areas in the census. The green line could be the border of that new Province d'Acadie. Were it India, local politicians would have asked for that separate province long ago already. Even in Switzerland these things happen (the French-speaking canton of Jura separated from the German-speaking canton of Bern in 1978).

If they wanted to do it they'd have my support.

Interesting that it's never discussed, as francophone New Brunswickers really don't have a strong New Brunswick provincial identity. They are local to Acadia and Canada. When in Acadian regions you see Acadian flags and Canadian flags on homes, and almost never New Brunswick flags.

Note that in a decade or two (probably closer to one), it may no longer be demographically logical to include those areas in the southeast in a hypothetical Acadian province.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It was never confirmed but there were tons of rumours that it was secretly associated with the Parti Québécois.

Which of course was the kiss of death in hyper-Liberal and federalist Acadian parts of New Brunswick.

Actually the one thing I've never understood with the Anglophone federalists, is they have never realized that a Francophone province of Acadie would... make Québec seceding from Canada much harder. Also, Québec would overnight stop being THE voice of the Francophones in Canada.

These people are not cunning really. What feeds the Québécois sovereignist movement is the us vs them narrative. The best way to deflate that is to create another Francophone province. Then suddenly there are no "two solitudes" anymore, but 3 guys in the room, and I think it's harder for the PQ to justify seceding ALONE and leaving Acadie in Canada. For the same reason, it's hard for any single Francophone canton of Switzerland to secede alone from Switzerland (most Swiss people would think that would make no sense whatsoever for, say, Jura alone, or Geneva alone to secede), whereas if the Francophones only had one canton, perhaps there would be talks of secession (at least it wouldn't be inconceivable).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So, very much like Québec?

Imagine the prime minister of Canada in the 19th century telling you guys: no, you cannot have your province of Québec (or Lower Canada), because there would be some Anglo communities here and there in it caught in the middle of you French Canadians...

I am pretty sure that the people with the real power running Canada in the 19th century never envisioned that French Canadians in Québec, even if a large majority at the time, would ever become as uppity (revendicateurs) as they did starting in the 2nd half of the 20th century.

At best it was a temporary inconvenience and it was felt that with time the problem would disappear as Quebec would become gradually anglicized.

I'm sure if they were transported by time travel today they'd be shocked to see how francophone Quebec and even Montreal still are, and that there are still (for the moment) even francophone communities in the anglo majority provinces.

I always say we're a very unlikely accident of history.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure about the albums but many of the manga-based animated TV shows were never really shown in Anglo North America. I suppose there were English soundtracks made for the biggies like Albator (which even has an English name, Captain Harlock, that I've seen) or Goldorak, but I've never met an anglophone who knew them who didn't have some sort of connection to francophone Canada that they got it from.

Your average anglo has never heard of them.

Other more innocent programs like Le Petit Castor, Candy, Mini-Fée and Démétan, were also mangas. Though I didn't know it at the time.

They're also totally unknown to anglophones.

The one breakthrough series in Anglo North America in the 1980s was The Battle of the Planets (La Bataille des Planètes), also known as G-Force. This was not the original Japanese show with a translated, but was actually remade by the Americans.

The highlighted probably explains its success.

I have heard of some of these but they’re wayyyyyyy before my time

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Actually the one thing I've never understood with the Anglophone federalists, is they have never realized that a Francophone province of Acadie would... make Québec seceding from Canada much harder. Also, Québec would overnight stop being THE voice of the Francophones in Canada.

These people are not cunning really. What feeds the Québécois sovereignist movement is the us vs them narrative. The best way to deflate that is to create another Francophone province. Then suddenly there are no "two solitudes" anymore, but 3 guys in the room, and I think it's harder for the PQ to justify seceding ALONE and leaving Acadie in Canada. For the same reason, it's hard for any single Francophone canton of Switzerland to secede alone from Switzerland (most Swiss people would think that would make no sense whatsoever for, say, Jura alone, or Geneva alone to secede), whereas if the Francophones only had one canton, perhaps there would be talks of secession (at least it wouldn't be inconceivable).

Well, they could say their approach has worked so far, as Canada has survived two Quebec referendums. (If only barely the last time.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by AverageMonctonEnjoyr

I have heard of some of these but they’re wayyyyyyy before my time

Fulguro...poings!

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Well, they could say their approach has worked so far, as Canada has survived two Quebec referendums. (If only barely the last time.)

It may not work the 3rd time around, and then ils n'auront plus que leurs yeux pour pleurer, as we say, as independence is a one-way street.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It may not work the 3rd time around, and then ils n'auront plus que leurs yeux pour pleurer, as we say, as independence is a one-way street.

I happen to think the pro-Canada Non side was extremely lucky to win in 1995. Almost a fluke.

Quebec has a reasonably diverse population and of course everyone who is a Canadian citizen and a Quebec resident is a Quebecer with a legitimate right to vote.

But it's rarely mentioned that in 1995, over 60% of the people you could describe as "French Canadians" voted Oui.

If Quebec had been even just a bit more homogenously francophone French Canadian, the Oui would have won easily.

[New Brisavoine]

By the way AverageMonctonEnjoyr, what was the mood back in 1995 in Acadia? But maybe you were too young back then to remember.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

By the way AverageMonctonEnjoyr, what was the mood back in 1995 in Acadia? But maybe you were too young back then to remember.

I wasn’t born back then
I’m a teenager, I may be the youngest one here XD