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  #601  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2024, 6:58 PM
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People like to talk about the menace of e-bike or e-scooter delivery folks because "they don't care" and zip around. Imagine those same people delivering in big hunk of cars who also drive like "they don't care". That will definitely will solve traffic and address people's safety. I'd much rather people being human while walking and cycling than driving a SUV.
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  #602  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2024, 7:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Build.It View Post
Dougie actually being a conservative for once. Would be nice if he'd start being a conservative when it comes to housing as well.

Regarding the bike lanes - there are any number of parallel roads that the cities can install these lanes on. If they weren't so adament about removing car lanes from main thoroughfares, and were more responsible about where they place these lanes, then Ford wouldn't be forced to step in like this.

FYI - people who drive typically come in from further away and have higher paying jobs. If you make it difficult for them to get downtown, those employers are eventually going to be forced to move to the suburbs.

It's only a small minority of people who want us to be like Europe. The vast majority of people just want to get to where we're going and don't want to be a sweaty mess when we get there. Cars aren't a bad thing.
What are the parallel route for the Yonge and Bloor street bike lanes that Ford will remove?
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  #603  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2024, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Build.It View Post
Dougie actually being a conservative for once. Would be nice if he'd start being a conservative when it comes to housing as well.

Regarding the bike lanes - there are any number of parallel roads that the cities can install these lanes on. If they weren't so adament about removing car lanes from main thoroughfares, and were more responsible about where they place these lanes, then Ford wouldn't be forced to step in like this.

FYI - people who drive typically come in from further away and have higher paying jobs. If you make it difficult for them to get downtown, those employers are eventually going to be forced to move to the suburbs.

It's only a small minority of people who want us to be like Europe. The vast majority of people just want to get to where we're going and don't want to be a sweaty mess when we get there. Cars aren't a bad thing.
There are a lot of parallel roads for Bloor and Yonge... etc for cars too. Let's remove them. They don't need it.
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  #604  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2024, 7:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Build.It View Post
The vast majority of people just want to get to where we're going and don't want to be a sweaty mess when we get there. Cars aren't a bad thing.
With the ever increasing popularity of e-bikes (and e-scooters), many don't have to be a sweaty mess when they get to where they need to be. And no one said that cars are a bad thing. It's just good to have other options available to people.

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But you will never convince me to ride a damn bicycle to the office. This isn't the 19th century.
No one's trying to convince you to ride a bike to the office. Just accept that others will want/need to. And bikes aren't a 19th century thing. Millions and millions of people around the world still use their bikes (or walk) to commute. There'd be even more if more countries/cities set up proper infrastructure for it.
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  #605  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2024, 7:47 PM
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When the bike lanes are removed, will bikes still be able to ride on those roads?
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  #606  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2024, 9:07 PM
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lol 19th century. Cars were invented in the 19th century too, but when something was invented or how long it's been popular has nothing to do with its current pros and cons. The technology can change, the needs of the population can change, different contexts exist. Just such silly talking point.
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  #607  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2024, 9:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Build.It View Post
Dougie actually being a conservative for once. Would be nice if he'd start being a conservative when it comes to housing as well.

Regarding the bike lanes - there are any number of parallel roads that the cities can install these lanes on. If they weren't so adament about removing car lanes from main thoroughfares, and were more responsible about where they place these lanes, then Ford wouldn't be forced to step in like this.

FYI - people who drive typically come in from further away and have higher paying jobs. If you make it difficult for them to get downtown, those employers are eventually going to be forced to move to the suburbs.

It's only a small minority of people who want us to be like Europe. The vast majority of people just want to get to where we're going and don't want to be a sweaty mess when we get there. Cars aren't a bad thing.

What's conservative about this? Would conservatives not prefer smaller, more decentralized government? A centralized, provincial bureaucracy stepping in to change the design of a city's street (while spending the taxpayer's dollars doing it) is the exact opposite of that. Remember, when it came to legalizing 4-unit apartments across the province, Ford is the same guy that said municipalities should decide what is good for their own communities.

A few points in regards to the bike lanes:
  • Streets like Bloor and Yonge are not and have never been high-speed, high-capacity vehicular thoroughfares. They function primarily as local neighbourhood commercial strips, with the vast majority of traffic being in the subways below; while most street-level traffic are pedestrians. These aren't highways used to whisk suburbanites rapidly into the core.

  • As I noted in my previous post, due to the configuration of most sections of these streets, they didn't even lose traffic lanes with the introduction of bike lanes. It was a parking lane that has now been replaced with 2 additional (bike) traffic lanes. These streets are now able to move more people. And per the City's own studies, car travel times haven't increased as a result.

  • Bloor St. in particular is a very well-used bike route. At Bloor & Spadina for example, depending on the season & time of day, bikes comprise between 16% (in winter) to 43% of all vehicles on the road. Thousands of cyclists use these routes - with or without separated lanes.

  • Cycling volumes have increased on all of these routes after the bike lanes were installed. Remember - every one of those people on a bike, or walking on the sidewalk, or taking transit is someone who isn't driving. Giving people more options for getting around means less cars on the street. As a motorist, it makes my life easier when there are fewer other people driving. When everyone else is driving, I'm more likely to be sitting in traffic.

  • If you're at all familiar with Toronto's street grid, you'd know that there aren't any continuous side streets that parallel the length of Bloor or Yonge that could provide a realistic alternate bike route.

  • These bike lanes are widely supported by local residents and businesses, including the Bloor Annex BIA. The opposition largely comes from non-resident, non-taxpaying suburbanites - should their occasional convenience outweigh the needs & desires of the actual communities that are affected?
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  #608  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2024, 10:09 PM
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Brilliant post MonkeyRonin, you 100% nailed it.
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  #609  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2024, 4:47 PM
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Spot on. The idea of spending millions to rip out heavily used and successful bike paths is absurd. It's not conservatism, it's culture war extremism.
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  #610  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2024, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
What's conservative about this? Would conservatives not prefer smaller, more decentralized government? A centralized, provincial bureaucracy stepping in to change the design of a city's street (while spending the taxpayer's dollars doing it) is the exact opposite of that. Remember, when it came to legalizing 4-unit apartments across the province, Ford is the same guy that said municipalities should decide what is good for their own communities.

A few points in regards to the bike lanes:
  • Streets like Bloor and Yonge are not and have never been high-speed, high-capacity vehicular thoroughfares. They function primarily as local neighbourhood commercial strips, with the vast majority of traffic being in the subways below; while most street-level traffic are pedestrians. These aren't highways used to whisk suburbanites rapidly into the core.

  • As I noted in my previous post, due to the configuration of most sections of these streets, they didn't even lose traffic lanes with the introduction of bike lanes. It was a parking lane that has now been replaced with 2 additional (bike) traffic lanes. These streets are now able to move more people. And per the City's own studies, car travel times haven't increased as a result.

  • Bloor St. in particular is a very well-used bike route. At Bloor & Spadina for example, depending on the season & time of day, bikes comprise between 16% (in winter) to 43% of all vehicles on the road. Thousands of cyclists use these routes - with or without separated lanes.

  • Cycling volumes have increased on all of these routes after the bike lanes were installed. Remember - every one of those people on a bike, or walking on the sidewalk, or taking transit is someone who isn't driving. Giving people more options for getting around means less cars on the street. As a motorist, it makes my life easier when there are fewer other people driving. When everyone else is driving, I'm more likely to be sitting in traffic.

  • If you're at all familiar with Toronto's street grid, you'd know that there aren't any continuous side streets that parallel the length of Bloor or Yonge that could provide a realistic alternate bike route.

  • These bike lanes are widely supported by local residents and businesses, including the Bloor Annex BIA. The opposition largely comes from non-resident, non-taxpaying suburbanites - should their occasional convenience outweigh the needs & desires of the actual communities that are affected?
Bloor is certainly a major route into the city from the west end. If you are proposing we re-start building highways then sure that is probably a better approach.

There was no parking during Rush hour and some sections like in the West End from Parkdale under through the underpasses under Go used to be a high capacity 4 lane road (some sections had 2 lanes plus a turning lane) and now has been reduced to a crawl at all hours of the day. Most of the time it is faster to go south to the Gardiner back up the DVP and reverse. Now for the anti car folks this is a success as cars should only go on highways except they don't want to build anymore and most want to not replace the Gardiner.

That said it's kind of insane to rip up such a huge infrastructure spend. Better to build some new road capacity somewhere else if Ford wants to restore balance.
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  #611  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2024, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetMapel View Post
People like to talk about the menace of e-bike or e-scooter delivery folks because "they don't care" and zip around. Imagine those same people delivering in big hunk of cars who also drive like "they don't care". That will definitely will solve traffic and address people's safety. I'd much rather people being human while walking and cycling than driving a SUV.
Pretty sure the Doordouche wouldn't take his beat up 15 year old Civic on the sidewalk. The escooter, not so much.
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  #612  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2024, 6:53 PM
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post

That said it's kind of insane to rip up such a huge infrastructure spend. Better to build some new road capacity somewhere else if Ford wants to restore balance.
That's the thing this whole saga has made clear. For all the conservative talk of fiscal responsibility, they ultimately don't care about cost as long as it's stuff they want. They just use the idea as a pleasant sounding excuse for not spending on things that other people want. Ford literally just proposed - with a straight face - to build an expressway tunnel across the metro area under the 401 which would cost dozens or even hundreds of billions of $$. And now they're wasting money on this.They are not fiscally prudent or responsible. They're just immature and selfish.
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  #613  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2024, 7:07 PM
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EVTOLs, Hyperloop, Cold fusion, ....
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Originally Posted by niwell View Post
And EVTOLs - lol I needed a good laugh today. I'm sure our Very Smart Business Guys know better from tech bros who are totally not grifters.
The Jetson ONE has a flight time of 20 min, (electronically limited) top speed of 102 km/h, max flying height of 450m, max passenger weight of 250lbs. You can buy this now for $180K. These things (eVTOLs, not the Jetson One necessarily) are going to transform how people live as the technology matures. The reason this possible all of a sudden is because of the massive improvement in battery technology.

https://jetson.com/jetson-one

Here is a video of it being flown:
https://youtu.be/n3YndnV6yN8?si=bxKDhh9zdRsI8fXy

Last edited by Build.It; Nov 3, 2024 at 7:29 PM.
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  #614  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2024, 7:33 PM
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  #615  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2024, 7:58 PM
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Just like smartphones, electric cars, the internet and online shopping were stupid ideas.

The reality is that a $50K eVTOL that can fly 500km and is easier to operate than a car is going to be incredibly compelling for a lot of people. At the rate this technology is advancing, we might actually reach that price/distance ratio in 15 years.

You'll be able to live wherever you want and won't be limited to where paved roads exist anymore.
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  #616  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2024, 8:18 PM
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They can never be used within or over a city of any significance, so what we’re talking about is a use for remote transportation. So maybe a few thousand people will have them, but it seems like a niche use and it does nothing to address city commuting which is still best served by various public transit options.
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  #617  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2024, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Build.It View Post
JThe reality is that a $50K eVTOL that can fly 500km and is easier to operate than a car is going to be incredibly compelling for a lot of people. At the rate this technology is advancing, we might actually reach that price/distance ratio in 15 years.

You'll be able to live wherever you want and won't be limited to where paved roads exist anymore.
So I guess we should just leave the bike lanes on Bloor then?
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  #618  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2024, 8:52 PM
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Just like smartphones, electric cars, the internet and online shopping were stupid ideas.
Nobody thought these were stupid ideas. Big Diff.
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  #619  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2024, 8:54 PM
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I’ll take the words of my friends who are aerospace engineers (my undergrad, though I went a different path for my Master’s) that EVTOLs will never be a viable transportation option outside of very niche uses. Too many issues ranging from those rooted in physics to the logistics of operation in any urban area.
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  #620  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2024, 9:12 PM
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We heavily regulate the use of tiny unmanned drones in most of the world now, why would we ever see planes deregulated to the point where there as easy to get in and get out of as cars? There would be disastrous safety consequences if we did.

VTOL is just a form of take off and landing, and its hardly idiot proof. Once you're in the air you're still operating a aircraft and you can't just have any idiot that doesn't understand the basic principles of aerodynamics hop in and go off on their own. We've also had light sports planes for a while now and absolutely none of them have even come close to the $50k price point (heck we probably will never even get a $50k electric car in this country).
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