Cycling in Canada

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

you have a lot of confidence Ford will lose 2026. Polling right now is certainly not indicating that at all.

Remember what the swing voter demographic is in this province - it's certainly not cyclists in downtown ridings. It's people in Brampton who drive to work.

This policy is immensely stupid and is absolutely overreach - but it works for the swing ridings Ford needs to form government, just like his brother's rhetoric worked in 2010. Ford doesn't need Toronto Centre to hold onto power.

By 2026 Ford will have led 8 years of majority government, and we'll have a 1-year old Conservative majority at the federal level (and we all know of Ontario's track record at electing the opposite parties provincially & federally). Unless the Liberals/NDP are still in complete disarray, it's theirs to lose.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes the University Ave lanes are beatiful and aren't a big issue. Bloor going from two lanes to one each way is a substantial change. I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise. If that is worth it depends on your perspective. Certainly those outside the core rarely if ever bike and most of them use Bloor by car for example at least intermittantly. Getting Bloor to be more pedestrian oriented and Main Street ish is certainly another benefit of bike lanes though it's not perfect getting the cars a litle further away and slower helps a bit but a lot of Bloor is really suburbanish.

Anyone actually familiar with the street (before & after) could argue otherwise. As Niwell noted, it didn't really have 2 lanes of free-flowing traffic in either direction - it was a typical inner-city Toronto commercial street with 1 lane of street parking in either direction, and 1 lane of traffic with no dedicated turn lanes.

The addition of bike lanes reconfigured the street such that it has 1 lane of vehicular traffic & 1 bike lane in either direction, plus dedicated left/right turn lanes at major intersections, and street parking on alternating sides. The only real loss has come from street parking capacity, which was basically halved.

Case in point - before, with street parking on either side:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RK1DkrCwj1wMMejZ8

And after, with a left turn lane and bike lanes replacing street parking lanes:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/VLF6bY889mrbU7R26

The vehicular capacity is unchanged. As someone who actually used to regular drive on Bloor St. both before-and-after the reconfiguration, there wasn't really any noticeable impact on travel times. If anything, it became somewhat easier to drive on, as the introduction of turn lanes meant you didn't have to weave around left turners, and the dedicated cycling lanes meant you weren't also vying for space with cyclists (as even before the bike lanes it has always been a busy cycling route).

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Interestingly, I don't see many complaints about provincial government overreach in forcing municipalities to make zoning changes on the forum...

Because that isn't happening. The fed government is offering municipalities extra funds for housing if they agree to make those changes. It isn't forcing them to make the changes.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

The vehicular capacity is unchanged. As someone who actually used to regular drive on Bloor St. both before-and-after the reconfiguration, there wasn't really any noticeable impact on travel times. If anything, it became somewhat easier to drive on, as the introduction of turn lanes meant you didn't have to weave around left turners, and the dedicated cycling lanes meant you weren't also vying for space with cyclists (as even before the bike lanes it has always been a busy cycling route).

This is my experience driving on Bloor too. It's actually a relief not having to worry about cyclists contending with you for the narrow space between travelling and parked traffic. Why isn't this part of the conversation?

[Innsertnamehere]

Bloor through the Annex is basically the same as it was before, I agree, but it's hardly true for all stretches. Bloor through the Annex is about the same as that stretch was already very slow before the lanes.

From my experience basically every other part of Bloor operates noticeably slower than before the lanes, including through central Toronto (yonge-bloor is brutal now compared to before), on the Danforth, and in the west end. It's a lie to say they have had no impcact.

Converting a 4-lane road with street parking to a 2-lane plus turn lane road can actually not impact traffic much, correct. But not all of bloor is like that. The parts that were operating more like actual 4-lane roads with existing turn lanes and often seperated curbside parking or no curbside parking (i.e. regularly have 4 actual lanes of throughput) operate substantially slower.

Bloor West Village for example had 4 lanes, turn lanes, and separated curbside parking leaving 4 lanes operational throughout the day, as well as substantially higher vehicle volumes than closer to downtown. Cutting it to 2 lanes has had a big impact on traffic through the area as the city effectively halved the capacity, compared to through the Annex where capacity only changed marginally if at all compared to the previous configuration.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Because that isn't happening. The fed government is offering municipalities extra funds for housing if they agree to make those changes. It isn't forcing them to make the changes.

In BC it is absolutely happening thanks to the BC NDP.

[whatnext]

I don't think the aspect of the ON changes were mentioned:

...The province’s proposed new law will force cities to ask for permission to remove a lane of traffic in order to add a bike lane. It will also mean municipalities have to provide data to justify lanes installed in the past five years....

https://globalnews.ca/news/10841527/toro...specific%20bike%20lanes%20from%20Toronto.

[MolsonExport]

Make Oaftario Great Again, Douggie!

I'll just bet you a shiny new dime that Douggie hasn't been on a bike since he was campaigning for Mayor of Toronto way back when.


But he sure is great driving his giant Lincoln Navigator or Cadillac Escalade. You gotta drive something that weighs 7 times your body weight, no matter how heavy you might already be! Environment be damned.

[Build.It]

Dougie actually being a conservative for once. Would be nice if he'd start being a conservative when it comes to housing as well.

Regarding the bike lanes - there are any number of parallel roads that the cities can install these lanes on. If they weren't so adament about removing car lanes from main thoroughfares, and were more responsible about where they place these lanes, then Ford wouldn't be forced to step in like this.

FYI - people who drive typically come in from further away and have higher paying jobs. If you make it difficult for them to get downtown, those employers are eventually going to be forced to move to the suburbs.

It's only a small minority of people who want us to be like Europe. The vast majority of people just want to get to where we're going and don't want to be a sweaty mess when we get there. Cars aren't a bad thing.

[MolsonExport]

99% of the pavement in Toronto is reserved for cars already.

More, More, More!!!



More cars! More lanes! More highways!

[Build.It]

He's not saying no more bike lanes. He's saying that too many of our municipal governments have shown they can't make these decisions responsibly, so they need to get approval from the provincial government if they want to remove a car lane. That's it.

I don't think you're going to be seeing much sympathy from the vast majority of Ontarians on this one. Sorry pal.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Build.It

Dougie actually being a conservative for once. Would be nice if he'd start being a conservative when it comes to housing as well.

Regarding the bike lanes - there are any number of parallel roads that the cities can install these lanes on. If they weren't so adament about removing car lanes from main thoroughfares, and were more responsible about where they place these lanes, then Ford wouldn't be forced to step in like this.

FYI - people who drive typically come in from further away and have higher paying jobs. If you make it difficult for them to get downtown, those employers are eventually going to be forced to move to the suburbs.

It's only a small minority of people who want us to be like Europe. The vast majority of people just want to get to where we're going and don't want to be a sweaty mess when we get there. Cars aren't a bad thing.

We need to live more like people in Europe if we stand any hope of rectifying global warming.

Look at the friggen 401. A gazillion lanes AND IT IS STILL CONGESTED ALL THE TIME.

Induced demand is the problem, not the solution. No matter how much money we waste expanding our wastelines, err, highways.

I am not convinced that the "vast majority" of people are in agreement with you.

[Build.It]

We'll see who's right next election.

Let me know if you find a way to magically shrink our urban areas before then. Until then we can't force people to use European methods of transportation. We're better off figuring out how to make low density forms of transportation more sustainable.

Gotta work with what you've got.

EVTOLs are probably going to make a lot of these conversations redundant anyways. As soon as drivers realize they can travel by air for the same price (or less), it'll free up a lot of space on the ground for recreational activities/other uses. You can already buy a somewhat usable EVTOL for just $150K - it's a massive emerging technology that hasn't gone mainstream yet, but almost certainly will as it keeps getting better and more affordable.

Until then though I'm gonna keep driving my Explorer/whatever SUV I replace it with. But you will never convince me to ride a damn bicycle to the office. This isn't the 19th century.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Build.It

EVTOLs are probably going to make a lot of these conversations redundant anyways. As soon as drivers realize they can travel by air for the same price (or less), it'll free up a lot of space on the ground for recreational activities/other uses. You can already buy a somewhat usable EVTOL for just $150K - it's a massive emerging technology that hasn't gone mainstream yet, but almost certainly will as it keeps getting better and more affordable.

Until then though I'm gonna keep driving my Explorer/whatever SUV I replace it with. But you will never convince me to ride a damn bicycle to the office. This isn't the 19th century.

EVTOLs, Hyperloop, Cold fusion, ....

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Build.It

Dougie actually being a conservative for once. Would be nice if he'd start being a conservative when it comes to housing as well.

Regarding the bike lanes - there are any number of parallel roads that the cities can install these lanes on. If they weren't so adament about removing car lanes from main thoroughfares, and were more responsible about where they place these lanes, then Ford wouldn't be forced to step in like this.

FYI - people who drive typically come in from further away and have higher paying jobs. If you make it difficult for them to get downtown, those employers are eventually going to be forced to move to the suburbs.

It's only a small minority of people who want us to be like Europe. The vast majority of people just want to get to where we're going and don't want to be a sweaty mess when we get there. Cars aren't a bad thing.

Actually side streets tend to be a very poor place for bike lanes. Cyclists tend to cover greater distances than pedestrians so bike lanes need to be designed as longer through routes for them to work properly. But in many cities side streets don't line up very well with each other and you have stop signs whenever you intersect with another street (while main thoroughfares either have the right of way or favourable light cycles). In other words, side street are for local traffic such as residents of the street, not for longer distance trips which they simply don't work well for. But in places where side streets are a good option, lanes either already exist or are being planned.

Plus the vast majority of destinations are on major streets so the places people actually want to go aren't accessible from the side streets. That means most cyclists still have to use the main streets as part of their trip. Plus, side streets are usually not cleared as well or as quickly in the winter.

The Oh the Urbanity! channel did a good job explaining why side streets are often not a good option.

• Video Link

The ironic thing is that many side streets already have calm enough traffic that bikes lanes aren't even needed on them. The reason that bike lanes are built on major streets in the first place is because that's where cyclists need protection since sticking to side streets is difficult or impossible on many trips. So you'd be spending money to move something that was designed specifically for the place where it was located to put it somewhere it isn't needed, doubling your cost and defeating the main purpose. Doesn't sound very conservative to me. Unless conservative has just become a synonym for stupid like in the US.

[Nouvellecosse]

Oh nice! There's now a second, also excellent explainer on the same topic just released today.

• Video Link

[theman23]

One weird thing that's come out of this has been the complete disregard for food delivery cyclists. No one uses the lanes - except the one group of people who rely on the lanes for their livelihood?

[niwell]

Toronto is particularly bad for side streets as a cycling solution as our street grid is generally discontinuous and not designed for through traffic of any kind. Cycling routes have already been implemented in places it does make sense (Shaw st, for instance) but generally main roads are more efficient and where you'll find most cyclists, bike lanes or no. I'd challenge anyone to find a side street alternative across the city paralleling Bloor (or Yonge for that matter).

If you don't want to bike to work fine, but I have no idea why you wouldn't support people getting out of their cars to free up road space for you. The increase in year round cycling is obvious on streets like Bloor where bike volume is significant in most stretches East of Etobicoke and surpasses cars in some central sections. I'll keep cycling regardless as it's by far the fastest and most convenient way for me to get to work, and unless you're grossly out of shape tends to be no more sweaty than walking on a hot day.

Everybody's different of course but my conservative voting in-laws in Ontario seem to get this just fine and think this is a massive overstep by Ford. Even if they don't care about bike lanes they prefer to allow their local elected representatives to make decisions for their respective areas instead of another layer of bureaucracy (we all know Real Conservatives LOVE more bureaucracy of course). As evidenced by the fact that the top candidates in the last Toronto election were pro-cycling, while those who were adamantly opposed performed quite poorly.

Commute share in Toronto to downtown by car is already a minority, with GO transit being preferable for those in the far suburbs. Of all the people I know who work in the core across multiple industries I can't think of any who drive on a regular basis.

And EVTOLs - lol I needed a good laugh today. I'm sure our Very Smart Business Guys know better from tech bros who are totally not grifters.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by theman23

One weird thing that's come out of this has been the complete disregard for food delivery cyclists. No one uses the lanes - except the one group of people who rely on the lanes for their livelihood?

People want their treats but tend not to care how it actually gets to them.

[theman23]

I've seen numerous talking heads on TV use the same line as the letter in that youtube video posted above:
"I never see any cyclists on this bike lane. What I do see are a lot of bike couriers/delivery cyclists/etc."
There's a degree of classism to it, as if these drivers are beneath us and not worthy of our consideration or that bike lanes could only be justified if they were used by normies like us.

Not really sure what Ford is thinking here. No one in his base lives along Yonge/Bloor/University. His voters take the GO train and he should be asking why it's taking so long for electrification and all day 20 minute service, not ripping up bike lanes that are probably going back within 5 years of him leaving office.

[Nouvellecosse]

Well... I hate to say it, but the majority of food delivery cyclists are immigrants. And for some people, immigrants just aren't important. It's the same with the housing shortage. For some people, if they're asked to adapt to any type of change, if they perceive it as being for the safety, dignity, and well being of immigrants their natural response is to just get rid of immigration.

I'm not saying it's a conscious bias for a lot of them, but it's there nonetheless.