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  #921  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 1:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Feathered Friend View Post
Cold hard numbers, you mean like how the single family home next door to the west is now worth $5,074,000 according to BC Assessment? or how the adjacent one to the east is valued at $5,061,000? Not that it's worth engaging on Twitter, but I expect more nuance on SSP.
What does that prove, other than the fact upzoning turns family homes into ‘“development opportunities” rather than homes? Thereby pushing them even further out of reach for families.
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  #922  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 2:00 AM
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What does that prove, other than the fact upzoning turns family homes into ‘“development opportunities” rather than homes? Thereby pushing them even further out of reach for families.
You proved that new homes are more expensive in general. FF proved that too, plus how new multi-unit homes are cheaper than new detached homes. Is your solution to just keep the old detached homes until they fall apart?
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  #923  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 2:04 AM
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It's pretty reductionist to attribute the entire home value change to speculation when property values are known to be influenced by countless factors, and correlation doesn't equal causation.

Vancouver has a fixed land area where the population continues to grow, homes aren't being built as fast as people are moving here, the City is one of the most desirable places in the country, but it's upzoning that's the issue and nothing else.
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  #924  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 3:27 AM
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Fun fact, each side of the duplex is almost as large as the house that was there before, so who can really complain about a cheaper, newer, higher quality, equally sized home?
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  #925  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 4:24 AM
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Fun fact, each side of the duplex is almost as large as the house that was there before, so who can really complain about a cheaper, newer, higher quality, equally sized home?
But as a house owner you know, it’s owning the land that counts.
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  #926  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 5:03 AM
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But as a house owner you know, it’s owning the land that counts.
Absolutely not. Land is absolutely secondary to having an actual structure to live in. No one needs to own land, everyone needs to live in a structure. The less land needed per unit of housing, the better.
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  #927  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 4:03 PM
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But as a house owner you know, it’s owning the land that counts.
Land value tax would fix that. But then your SFH would cost a lot more to keep.
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  #928  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 4:34 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Hard to argue with cold hard numbers:

Mortimer
@mortimer_1

27m
The missing middle affordability math...

You could have bought the entire original house for $2,680,000 in 2019

Now you can buy the new half duplex for $3,498,000 (and have the fun dealing with your co-neighbour)

2455/2453 W 10TH AVE, Vancouver


https://x.com/mortimer_1/status/1852142397167489025
That's a well-sized duplex with 5 bedrooms! 2,327sf for $3.5m in Kits.

My trusty inflation calculator (understand it's not 100% reliable and leaves out our local post-COVID house price inflation) tells me this 2019 price would be ~$3.2m today. So yes, you could pay the same amount for a detached, but you'd have an old house. For an "extra" $200k someone already tore down the old home, designed the new one, got permits and paid all the fees and you end up with a mint house.

Not to mention that in maybe 20 years someone will buy this house off you for double and build apartments, as this is currently inside the TOA allowing up to 8-storeys, and will be inside the expanded Broadway Plan extension.

To be honest I have no idea who could afford either the detached or the duplex lol
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  #929  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 4:43 PM
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A row of homes to the east at Balsam and 10th are the same vintage as the original home we're discussing, and it would be great to see some assemblies in Kits for new mid-rises.
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  #930  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 4:52 PM
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That strip of shops between Vine and Yew look like a goldmine now too for 12-storeys
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  #931  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 4:54 PM
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Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
That's a well-sized duplex with 5 bedrooms! 2,327sf for $3.5m in Kits.

My trusty inflation calculator (understand it's not 100% reliable and leaves out our local post-COVID house price inflation) tells me this 2019 price would be ~$3.2m today. So yes, you could pay the same amount for a detached, but you'd have an old house. For an "extra" $200k someone already tore down the old home, designed the new one, got permits and paid all the fees and you end up with a mint house.

Not to mention that in maybe 20 years someone will buy this house off you for double and build apartments, as this is currently inside the TOA allowing up to 8-storeys, and will be inside the expanded Broadway Plan extension.

To be honest I have no idea who could afford either the detached or the duplex lol
Nothing says we're winning the affordability wars like a $3.5 million duplex.
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  #932  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 4:57 PM
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Nothing says we're winning the affordability wars like a $3.5 million duplex.
Agreed. At the heart of it not much has changed - rules or prices or availability
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  #933  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2024, 4:58 PM
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Nothing says we're winning the affordability wars like a $3.5 million duplex.
In the context of $5M+ SFHs, it's a step in the right direction.
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  #934  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2026, 6:10 PM
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Didn't want to think of a better place to put this, but wow hard to believe this could possibly have worked.

Auckland guide to housing affordability and soft urban renewal:
Step one: Amalgamate the disjointed municipalities with different plans into one city
Step two: Rezone 75% of all land for townhouses
Step three: That's it, there is no step three. Maybe go fuck yourself Patrick Condon can be step three.

Quote:
How New Zealand’s biggest city solved its housing crisis

Rezoning has changed the face of Auckland though critics warn lessons hard to replicate

A decade ago, New Zealand’s biggest city was in the grip of a housing crisis. Immigration had jumped on the back of a buoyant economy and New Zealanders returning from Sydney and London were joined by Chinese and Indian migrants looking for work and a place to live.
For planners in Auckland, situated on a narrow strip of land pinched between two harbours, the answer was to look up.
The city, whose population has risen from 1.3mn in 2010 to 1.8mn in 2025, has in the past decade rezoned 75 per cent of its residential land, allowing single-storey family homes with lawns and garages to be replaced by taller, narrower, terraced town houses.
In many parts of the world, including big European and American cities, young people are struggling to get on the property ladder and working families complain of unaffordability. Some are asking whether Auckland offers a model that can be replicated in other cities.
“Urban economists [around the world] have analysed the outcomes and found it successful in increasing the number of homes,” said Nicole Bennetts, head of policy at the Planning Institute of Australia.
The rezoning has changed the face of Auckland, an attractive city with bustling harbours and regular ferries to islands with some of New Zealand’s finest beaches and vineyards, making it denser and — in the words of some — feel more of a city.
“There’s now 14 town houses where there was one big house,” said Graham Wall, an estate agent in the city. “People are pretty good with that and the cafés are full.”
Most importantly, “you don’t hear the word shortage any more”, said Kelvin Davidson, chief economist at Cotality, a property data company.
A potential 1.2mn new dwellings were envisaged under the so-called Auckland Unitary Plan.
“The directive was to grow more compactly and the only way to go was up,” said Ryan Greenaway-McGrevy, associate professor of economics at the University of Auckland.
The massive development was only made possible by the merger of eight local governing bodies in 2010, said Gary Blick, chief economist of Auckland Council, allowing greater unity of thought and direction.
The real lesson for other cities from Auckland was how a “patchwork quilt of plans” could be consolidated into a long-term vision, said Bennetts at the Planning Institute of Australia.
The plan, which concentrated development within a 14km radius of the city centre, chimed with Auckland’s changing demographics. Older people wanted to downsize without leaving the city, Blick said, while younger people, who had often lived overseas and were familiar with a greater variety of accommodation, wanted smaller and cheaper housing.
“People were willing to forgo a bit of land to live somewhere desirable. Demand has been proven,” he said of the rise of town houses or terraced housing.
After an intense building flurry, Auckland’s housing stock is now 618,849 units, which is 101,000 more than a decade ago, equating to a 19.5 per cent rise, according to a 2025 policy paper by Greenaway-McGrevy, James Allan Jones and Chris Crow.
Meanwhile Auckland house prices, with a median value of just over NZ$1mn (US$587,000), have lost a quarter of their value in that timeframe. That is slightly more than the nationwide drop. Lower prices can help people enter the property market, though some caution that in Auckland dozens of identical properties remain unsold.
Rental prices in other cities on the North Island rose as much as 23 per cent more than Auckland between 2016 and 2024, according to calculations from Greenaway-McGrevy, writing this year with Yun So.
There is much about the Auckland experience that is hard to replicate, analysts say, not least because of its lack of historical development, which meant it was a blank template compared with already densely developed cities such as Sydney.
The post-2016 building boom might just have been authorities being forced to catch up with demand, said independent economist Tim Helm, referring to what he called the “myth” of the Auckland Unitary Plan.
“It is far from clear that the post-2016 building boom was caused by the policy itself. It may instead reflect a stretched housing market catching up with rapid population growth,” Helm said.
The rapid transformation of some suburbs has not come without pain. Residents complain about congestion and the prospect of 11-metre-high houses being built right up to their fence line.
Some residents in West Auckland complain that relentless construction noise and disruption have made some suburbs almost unlivable. Developers have offered premium rates to buy out blocks in order to demolish houses to build dozens of new buildings.
Many, in the city’s leafier suburbs, remain concerned about greater height and density as the plan is expanded. “All my neighbours are terrified,” said Wall.
More development, including high-rise blocks around transport corridors, is now planned — expanding the number of potential new dwellings from 1.2mn to between 1.4mn and 1.6mn.
Still, the pace of transformation is remarkable.
People who visited Auckland a decade ago would take a taxi from the airport into the city that would wind through the back streets of unremarkable suburbs dotted with single story standalone houses that dated to another era.
“It would be the first thing a tourist would see,” said Davidson. “It didn’t feel like a great advertisement for our country.”
He added: “Now those roads are full of shiny new town houses which in my view look better. It’s subjective but housing stock needs to be rejuvenated and redesigned. It all makes good sense.”
https://www.ft.com/content/ec25a937-3dbd-417c-82a1-db223b62cca6?syn-25a6b1a6=1
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  #935  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2026, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by chowhou View Post
Didn't want to think of a better place to put this, but wow hard to believe this could possibly have worked.

Auckland guide to housing affordability and soft urban renewal:
Step one: Amalgamate the disjointed municipalities with different plans into one city
Step two: Rezone 75% of all land for townhouses
Step three: That's it, there is no step three. Maybe go fuck yourself Patrick Condon can be step three.
"....There is much about the Auckland experience that is hard to replicate, analysts say, not least because of its lack of historical development, which meant it was a blank template compared with already densely developed cities such as Sydney...."

Not exactly the case with Vancouver with its many highrise neighbourhoods.

But good to know it wasn't just Canada who thought it was a good idea to screw over young people looking to buy a home by flooding the country with mass immigration.
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  #936  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2026, 8:41 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
"....There is much about the Auckland experience that is hard to replicate, analysts say, not least because of its lack of historical development, which meant it was a blank template compared with already densely developed cities such as Sydney...."

Not exactly the case with Vancouver with its many highrise neighbourhoods.

But good to know it wasn't just Canada who thought it was a good idea to screw over young people looking to buy a home by flooding the country with mass immigration.
Ah yes, our "many highrise neighbourhoods".







You can try harder whatnext, the lies never work.



Meanwhile Auckland:



All upzoned properties in the Auckland Metro Area:



And before anyone tries to say "Oh but Vancouver has multiplexes now", Auckland now has zero FSR limits or setback requirements, only a shadowing angle setback.

Not to mention that Auckland is just, if not more, geography constrained as us, they have to contend with indigenous land rights handling, and, as whatnext so eloquently said, get plenty of foreign immigration and capital flowing into their city.

Last edited by chowhou; Aug 24, 2026 at 8:58 PM.
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  #937  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2026, 9:23 PM
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I think you know how disingenuous those photos are. Sure Vancouver has a lot of SFH neighbourhoods but it also has many highrise residential neighbourhoods that Auckland doesn’t (and aren’t in your pics). The highrise area you pictured shows their CBD.

Also note that article briefly refers to many unsold units. Perhaps like here, those shiny new townhouses are still unaffordable.
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  #938  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2026, 9:45 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
I think you know how disingenuous those photos are. Sure Vancouver has a lot of SFH neighbourhoods but it also has many highrise residential neighbourhoods that Auckland doesn’t (and aren’t in your pics). The highrise area you pictured shows their CBD.

Also note that article briefly refers to many unsold units. Perhaps like here, those shiny new townhouses are still unaffordable.
Take the L man, why do you keep spewing the same BS?

Unsold units = lower prices. I don't get why you can't understand that.
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  #939  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2026, 9:56 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
I think you know how disingenuous those photos are. Sure Vancouver has a lot of SFH neighbourhoods but it also has many highrise residential neighbourhoods that Auckland doesn’t (and aren’t in your pics). The highrise area you pictured shows their CBD.
What do you mean? I intentionally posted pictures of our extremely built out high rise neighbourhoods, not SFH neighbourhoods. The first picture was a picture of Downtown and Lower Lonsdale, the second was a picture of Lynn Valley Centre, and the third was a picture of Metrotown, Lougheed Town Centre, and Surrey Centre.

As you say, there's basically nowhere to build in Vancouver that isn't "densely developed".



When they say that Sydney is densely developed, they mean this style of development. The entirety of inner Sydney is basically minimum 2.0 FSR.



Heaven forbid a house touch another in Vancouver!

8 minutes from Waterfront.

15 minutes from Waterfront.

8 minutes from Circular Quay.

15 minutes from Circular Quay.
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  #940  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2026, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Take the L man, why do you keep spewing the same BS?

Unsold units = lower prices. I don't get why you can't understand that.
I thought unsold units = developer bailouts, at least according to Eby.

With that promise, there's no incentive for them to lower prices to a point where those units actually sell. I've been driving by the same townhouse development on Oak that has been blaring that's its the "Final Release" of units for well over a year. Is there a place for more townhouses in Vancouver? Absolutely, just not at the prices they're currently trying to get,
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