Winnipeg | Downtown | The Forks Market | Railside at The Forks - Page 126

hello · #**2501** Posted **Oct 27, 2024, 6:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hecate

How is a lease being paid for by the people occupying a building and not the developer, the same as purchasing property and paying tax on it? Did government money install geothermal in other developments around winnipeg too? Don’t forget all the developers will be getting TIF,s on this too. It’s the epitome of corporate welfare.

I know the land cost for one site was $27.5/sfb. No tif either. Taken a long time too so I don't think the developers are getting a particularly good deal on the sites.

True North is the king of unreasonable subsidies and corporate welfare. I heard Mark Chipman is also the main backer of Long Boats development that is getting the HAF funds.

Biff · #**2502** Posted **Oct 27, 2024, 8:40 PM**

...as well I heard that Railside is not eligible for HAF funding either as HAF cannot be applied to leased land.

bomberjet · #**2503** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 2:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hello

I know the land cost for one site was $27.5/sfb. No tif either. Taken a long time too so I don't think the developers are getting a particularly good deal on the sites.

True North is the king of unreasonable subsidies and corporate welfare. I heard Mark Chipman is also the main backer of Long Boats development that is getting the HAF funds.

Doesn't Chipman own Longboat?

trueviking · #**2504** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 2:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff

...as well I heard that Railside is not eligible for HAF funding either as HAF cannot be applied to leased land.

I have heard they are hoping to change that with the feds in the second round.

cllew · #**2505** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 5:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Doesn't Chipman own Longboat?

Longboat has been the Chipman family's property development division for years.

The Chipman's sold off most of their Real Estate management divisions ( property management group Stevenson Management Services — commercial-real-estate brokerage — Cushman & Wakefield Winnipeg — real-estate appraisals, consulting and tax-appeals division — Stevenson Advisors) around 2015 to a local Winnipeg group.

cllew · #**2506** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 5:28 PM**

Getting back to the Forks, does the $10 million +/- cost to rehab the pedestrian bridge over the Assiniboine going to have any impact on development of Rail Side?

Biff · #**2507** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 5:36 PM**

I would think not.

I have troubles understanding how the bridge could require $10m to repair. It doesn't need to hold trains anymore...just people. Remove the counterweight (if it is a design aesthetic, make a faux one), weld in some re-enforcing steel where needed and hit it with some Rust-Oleum paint.

Yes I know I don't really know what is wrong with it and an over simplifying the repairs, but that price seems high. Either way, fix it or replace it.

bomberjet · #**2508** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 5:45 PM**

How much was the ped bridge between Downtown and Osborne, $40 million now?

$10 million aint bad haha Everything is expensive these days. $10 million would lead me to believe they're replacing girders.

Was there something in the news about the Forks bridge rehab? first I heard of it.

bomberjet · #**2509** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 6:43 PM**

I see the news articles. They (The Forks) didn't discuss what is required for repairs beyond the ongoing counterweight work. Which would seem to be a small portion of the cost if they're just touching up concrete or cleaning up some of the steel.

Mr Tall Forehead · #**2510** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 7:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

I have heard they are hoping to change that with the feds in the second round.

We had better hope the second round of HAF comes out quickly because today PP indicated he'd cancel the HAF and eliminate GST on new builds as an alternative.

Unfortunate because I really can't see the GST cut stimulating much/any development projects in downtown or inner city Winnipeg.

bomberjet · #**2511** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 7:44 PM**

Isn't PP's wife a property developer? Or just another glorified title?

Eliminating GST will have a blanket effect on all development. So they won't need to apply, just reap the savings.

trueviking · #**2512** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 8:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Tall Forehead

We had better hope the second round of HAF comes out quickly because today PP indicated he'd cancel the HAF and eliminate GST on new builds as an alternative.

Unfortunate because I really can't see the GST cut stimulating much/any development projects in downtown or inner city Winnipeg.

Yup...developers, most of whom are conservative, ironically, are crapping themselves....not just HAF, but all the CMHC programs that are driving housing construction right now are at big risk.

PP's announcement is for new build single family houses under a million. The government announced removing GST on rental apartments last year....PP has said he will add it back to all rentals that are not below market rent.

BAKGUY · #**2513** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 8:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

I have heard they are hoping to change that with the feds in the second round.

Pollievre said today he will absolutely axe The HAF for certain.

trueviking · #**2514** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 8:58 PM**

^ right, but hopefully the election doesn't happen at least until spring...the next round of HAF is in January....they won't take it back once it's awarded......my office has 5,000 residential units in development....probably 4x more than a normal year because everyone wants to get in the ground before PP shuts off the housing tap.

cllew · #**2515** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 9:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I see the news articles. They (The Forks) didn't discuss what is required for repairs beyond the ongoing counterweight work. Which would seem to be a small portion of the cost if they're just touching up concrete or cleaning up some of the steel.

Years ago CN removed the counterweight on their mainline crossing next to the baseball stadium. I wonder what their cost was to do it on an active rail line between trains?

bomberjet · #**2516** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 9:13 PM**

It would be interesting to see how they did it! Maybe cut it up into chunks and hoisted down.

hello · #**2517** Posted **Oct 28, 2024, 9:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

^ right, but hopefully the election doesn't happen at least until spring...the next round of HAF is in January....they won't take it back once it's awarded......my office has 5,000 residential units in development....probably 4x more than a normal year because everyone wants to get in the ground before PP shuts off the housing tap.

That's a lot. Surprised to hear that - is that mostly multifamily?. Seems like a lot of the active apartment developers in the last 5 years have grinded their starts to a halt and focusing elsewhere (Ironclad, Broadstreet, Alston, P3 etc)

BAKGUY · #**2518** Posted **Oct 29, 2024, 7:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

^ right, but hopefully the election doesn't happen at least until spring...the next round of HAF is in January....they won't take it back once it's awarded......my office has 5,000 residential units in development....probably 4x more than a normal year because everyone wants to get in the ground before PP shuts off the housing tap.

Wow.
That is a ton and good news for us.
I sure hope you and others get it.
We really need it.
Anything really incredible , specific development in particular to share?

FactaNV · #**2519** Posted **Oct 29, 2024, 10:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hello

That's a lot. Surprised to hear that - is that mostly multifamily?. Seems like a lot of the active apartment developers in the last 5 years have grinded their starts to a halt and focusing elsewhere (Ironclad, Broadstreet, Alston, P3 etc)

Maybe the lowering interest rates are changing business cases.

Winnipeg Grump · #**2520** Posted **Oct 29, 2024, 1:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

Yup...developers, most of whom are conservative, ironically, are crapping themselves....not just HAF, but all the CMHC programs that are driving housing construction right now are at big risk.

PP's announcement is for new build single family houses under a million. The government announced removing GST on rental apartments last year....PP has said he will add it back to all rentals that are not below market rent.

Yeah, not sure what their plan is going to do relative to the policies the fed's have already put in place. We're already starting to see results from the policy shifts that they've made and they'd get even better results if you didn't have Ford, Smith, Moe and other conservative premiere's stone-walling them. At the end of the day there are only so many levers on this file that the Fed's have available to them - a lot rides on the sub-national levels of government.

As someone pointed out, unless you're going to limit this to first-time buyers and mandate primary-residence status for the applicant, what's to stop a bunch of investors using numbered companies from using the taxpayer to subsidize their asset purchases?