Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

It would be interesting to look at any examples in the world where previously affluent SFH zones became overcrowded and much less desirable over time.

I think many cases of nice areas that went to crap come to mind for all of us, but SFHs? Not too many.

One I can think of is Brush Park in downtown Detroit which had lots of mansions inhabited by the city's élite. Though I am not sure it even ever became a poor crowded ghetto before it was abandoned and mostly destroyed. It's also a lot smaller than the huge sea of 2000+ SF SFHs in Brampton.

[kwoldtimer]

Seems odd to me to think that South Asian-origin owners of SFHs might be less inclined to maintain their properties than other Canadians. It's not the case in South Asia.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It would be interesting to look at any examples in the world where previously affluent SFH zones became overcrowded and much less desirable over time.

I think many cases of nice areas that went to crap come to mind for all of us, but SFHs? Not too many.

One I can think of is Brush Park in downtown Detroit which had lots of mansions inhabited by the city's élite. Though I am not sure it even ever became a poor crowded ghetto before it was abandoned and mostly destroyed. It's also a lot smaller than the huge sea of 2000+ SF SFHs in Brampton.

Bunker Hill in Los Angeles in the 1950s is the example you’re looking for. Central neighborhood of large Victorian SFHs that then became cheap SROs as they aged as housing stock while simultaneously the rich generally left the city with the invention of the automobile.

[niwell]

Parkdale in Toronto was full of mansions at the turn of the 20th century. Gradually most of them became converted to rooming houses starting in the 50s after the Gardiner was built and streets like Jameson were torn down wholesale for midrise apartment buildings, culminating with the release of long term mental illness patients in the 1970s. It's semi-gentrified but still has some hard edges to it.

Still important to note that most of these were legal rooming houses so even though people shared bathroom/kitchen space rooms were private and separated. The old mansions also lent themselves better to being split up due to smaller rooms etc and many would have already had dormer suites. The situation in Brampton where regular suburban SFHs are being filled with students is a whole different story.

IIRC new SROs/rooming houses are effectively banned in Brampton so these are already largely illegal. Allowing new SROs with proper standards would be preferable, IMO. Of course it's much easier to just cram multiple people into a bedroom.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Seems odd to me to think that South Asian-origin owners of SFHs might be less inclined to maintain their properties than other Canadians. It's not the case in South Asia.

People maintain the homes they live in. They care a lot less about the homes they are investing in. At that point, profit maximization is the goal. That's why they are packing in a dozen students into a house. The Brampton dream is to be a Brampton slumlord who lives in Oakville.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

People maintain the homes they live in. They care a lot less about the homes they are investing in. At that point, profit maximization is the goal. That's why they are packing in a dozen students into a house. The Brampton dream is to be a Brampton slumlord who lives in Oakville.

It's also not a given that property owners in Brampton are or will always be predominantly South Asian anyway.

Equally surprising to me is the idea that South Asia is this haven of hundreds of millions of well-maintained residential properties - either owner-occupied or rented out.

But who am I to know? I have never been there.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's also not a given that property owners in Brampton are or will always be predominantly South Asian anyway.

Equally surprising to me is the idea that South Asia is this haven of hundreds of millions of well-maintained residential properties - either owner-occupied or rented out.

But who am I to know? I have never been there.

100%.

One thing that often strikes me whenever I visit family in India is the difference between private and public realm. The outside often looks far worse than the inside. And concern for the public realm is close to zero. There's even a meme about the foreign uncle who comes back and says, "America is such a great country. They wouldn't let me litter over there like I do here."

You will see the same mindset here. Immigrant buyers will spend six figures on interior upgrades for a new home. But they won't spend $100/mo on getting their lawn take care off. And if they are renting it out, they won't spend a dime inside either.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

100%.

One thing that often strikes me whenever I visit family in India is the difference between private and public realm. The outside often looks far worse than the inside. And concern for the public realm is close to zero. There's even a meme about the foreign uncle who comes back and says, "America is such a great country. They wouldn't let me litter over there like I do here."

You will see the same mindset here. Immigrant buyers will spend six figures on interior upgrades for a new home. But they won't spend $100/mo on getting their lawn take care off. And if they are renting it out, they won't spend a dime inside either.

Non-immigrant owners are no different. One of my best friends is a mini-Lio here in Gatineau. While he maintains his buildings it's just the minimum (to protect his investment) and he doesn't spend any more than he needs to on the multiple rental properties he owns. He is as Québécois French Canadian as they come.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

100%.

One thing that often strikes me whenever I visit family in India is the difference between private and public realm. The outside often looks far worse than the inside. And concern for the public realm is close to zero. There's even a meme about the foreign uncle who comes back and says, "America is such a great country. They wouldn't let me litter over there like I do here."

You will see the same mindset here. Immigrant buyers will spend six figures on interior upgrades for a new home. But they won't spend $100/mo on getting their lawn take care off. And if they are renting it out, they won't spend a dime inside either.

Yes and we are really only about average in this realm depending on the part of the country. In Northern and Eastern Europe they are shocked when they visit North America how bad our public places look. Even where the lawns are well manicured the city patch of grass at the end of the street is usually horrible. Not to mention to state of our sidewalks and schools.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Non-immigrant owners are no different. One of my best friends is a mini-Lio here in Gatineau. While he maintains his buildings it's just the minimum (to protect his investment) and he doesn't spend any more than he needs to on the multiple rental properties he owns. He is as Québécois French Canadian as they come.

For the past year I’ve been spending like crazy to bring my FL portfolio to somewhat luxurious standards, I’m fine with spending when it makes sense. In other cases, it doesn’t. The idea is to always manage one’s portfolio in a “don’t invest in pearls for swine” way. Pretty sure it’s exactly what your friend does too

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

For the past year I’ve been spending like crazy to bring my FL portfolio to somewhat luxurious standards, I’m fine with spending when it makes sense. In other cases, it doesn’t. The idea is to always manage one’s portfolio in a “don’t invest in pearls for swine” way. Pretty sure it’s exactly what your friend does too

Exactly. His clientele at the moment is FNS's and working class blue collar Québécois. Nothing indicates that that is going to dry up or transition to something different anytime soon here.

[le calmar]

I just spent a good 15 minutes exploring the streets of Brampton and I was unable to find an area that looked like it was overcrowded. Just your regular 1 or 2 cars in the driveways and barely any cars parked on the streets. I probably wasn't looking in the right spots though.

[Zeej]

Uh oh.... a twist à la M. Night Shyamalan.

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2024/1...-pablo-rodriguez-brouillerait-les-cartes

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Zeej

Uh oh.... a twist à la M. Night Shyamalan.

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2024/1...-pablo-rodriguez-brouillerait-les-cartes

Yeah, that's a helluva plot twist!

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Brisavoine basically refers to the immigration deals that countries from the former French colonial empire have made with the French government.

It is easier for someone from Algeria or Senegal to get and renew a visa than it is for anybody from South Korea or Peru, for instance.
We're talking about people from non-EU countries here.

I find it unfair, breaking the rules of equality that the French are supposed to be faithful to, but they say it's fair compensation for old colonialism.
The problem is colonialism is getting really old these days... Most of us weren't born back then, so we can't really understand any longer.

Take the nationalist Algerian regime. They keep on saying that France is responsible for all their failures when they've been independent since 1962 or something.
People over here are starting to think they're getting screwed.
We have to welcome some population that has been forever told that France was a criminal nation that enslaved them all, so of course, those buying that kind of propaganda don't really like us.
It feels like we're being invaded by some hostile people to some extent.

Moreover, that kind of immigration puts wages in a number of sectors of the economy under pressure, like construction and hotels/restaurants.
It's a good deal for entrepreneurs involved in these kinds of businesses. Workforce is cheaper to them.
But then again, we find it unfair.

All over Europe, people are growing skeptical about unleashed deregulated immigration.

That is 100% true. I’ve spoken with an Algerian man who was born during the french days of Algeria. He says the youth in Algeria nowadays don’t work & blame all of their problems on France. Contrarily to Morocco, Algeria has strong isolationist and anti-european policies which haven’t been helping it recently.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by harls

I would imagine if you grew up in English Canada, you'd be able to tell the difference between a Canadian and American.. and I'm not talking about over the top southern twang.

It took a while for me to hear the differences in accents within Quebec, but now I can certainly tell the difference between someone from the Saguenay vs Montreal, for example.

One thing for sure.. do not call someone from New Zealand an 'aussie'.

I did grow up in English Canada

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Yeah, really, that's an understatement.

Right-wing music of that kind is crappy, cheesy and shameful in the French-speaking world.

Frankly, the leftists are much better at it and culture in general. That's at least one thing they're helpful to, in my opinion anyway.

What !?!?!?!?

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'm not wanting to bash on Seine-St-Denis at all. But our French friends can't deny that it's the most powerful symbol in France of the banlieues and what is wrong with them.

But yeah, Trappes is also one of the worst banlieue municipalities, and it is in the posh western side of the Paris suburbs in the Yvelines.

I once knew someone who lived there. The grands ensembles were in fact very shitty, with burned out cars in the parking lots of high-rise apartment buildings. But there were also very nice streets with well-kept houses.

Yes I would stay in Dugny in Paris. I remember how often i’d see burnt carcasses of cars. I simply couldn’t understand why. Do people go around setting cars ablaze for fun ?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by AverageMonctonEnjoyr

That is 100% true. I’ve spoken with an Algerian man who was born during the french days of Algeria. He says the youth in Algeria nowadays don’t work & blame all of their problems on France. Contrarily to Morocco, Algeria has strong isolationist and anti-european policies which haven’t been helping it recently.

That's why Québec's reliance on Maghreban immigration will come to haunt them in the future. If I were them I would put severe brakes on that immigration.

There are certain countries whose national it is best to keep at a wide distance at all costs (Somalia, Afghanistan, Maghreb in general, and a few more countries).

Here when I see the US Right complaining about Latino immigrants... Gosh they don't know how lucky they are to have Catholic Latino immigrants whose grandchildren will integrate in US society over time! Here we would gladly trade our unassimilable immigrants for all the Latino immigrants in the world!!

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

There are certain countries whose national it is best to keep at a wide distance at all costs (Somalia, Afghanistan, Maghreb in general, and a few more countries).

Denmark ranks its diasporas by average performance across a host of metrics now, culminating in net cost/benefit to the state. Sweden is launching a similar project. Somalia and Afghanistan do the worst.