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  #521  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2024, 6:27 PM
Lakeofthewood Lakeofthewood is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Sutcliffe has been a disaster. The only "efficiencies" he found was in public transit, cutting funding to events (like the Tulip festival, wasn't this guy supposed to be the tourism mayor?) and the secure bike parking budget.

Taxes should absolutely go up with inflation. I remember Sutcliffe almost calling McKenney a radical because they wanted to raise taxes by a whole 3%.
Even though we're in boring, beige, Ottawa, I still can't believe we elected a person with NO HISTORY IN POLITICS. What did anyone think would happen? This isn't a high school popularity contest, the choice by people directly impacts the quality of life we have in our nation's capital.
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  #522  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2024, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood View Post
Even though we're in boring, beige, Ottawa, I still can't believe we elected a person with NO HISTORY IN POLITICS. What did anyone think would happen? This isn't a high school popularity contest, the choice by people directly impacts the quality of life we have in our nation's capital.
And this isn't the first time. We elected Larry "Zero means Zero, actually it means 4.9% two years in a row because this is not sustainable" O'Brien.
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  #523  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2024, 9:02 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Actually, I give O'Brien full credit for recognizing the truth once he was in, and pivoting. Adding the 'Infrastructure Surtax' was absolutely necessary. But it is also what Watson killed him with. O'Brien should have been better able to describe what the situation was, and how Watson's 2.5% plan was a mistake. (But it is hard to argue against someone who doesn't worry about telling the whole truth regarding what they are planning/doing.)
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  #524  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2024, 8:41 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
A total shutdown of transit in fact didn't even shut down the city and we aren't talking about that. Of course transit usage increases with service increaes the converse is true with transit fares but it is largely inelastic.
You must have forgotten that strike. There were massive mitigation efforts and the Christmas holidays in the middle, which sort of saved the city. I remember getting my brother to drop me off and get home (he was a student at the time). It took him 1.5 hrs to do the 7 km and back. There were lots of carpooling groups. People who could shift their hours did. People who lived in the downtown core walked. People who could work from home did. And disabled people were simply homebound. Sure the city didn't shut down. But none of that was sustainable in any fashion for a long period of time. And that was at a time when the city was a lot smaller and happened when tens of thousands of workers could take extended holiday breaks.

It it were to happen today we'd basically revert to Covid WFH mode everywhere, the very thing everybody is claiming they want reversed. And we'd probably still end up with hours of traffic.
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  #525  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2024, 8:43 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Not really, you still have to maintain and plough the entire road network. At best you would save the marginal cost of extra lanes on arterial roads and maybe a minimal amount of wear and tear on roads (although trucks, buses and weather account for most wear and tear on roads).
Road networks are designed for peak traffic. If we designed a road network around just commercial demand and minimal single occupancy commuting, it would probably have a third to half of the lane km we do now.
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  #526  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2024, 10:18 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
You must have forgotten that strike. There were massive mitigation efforts and the Christmas holidays in the middle, which sort of saved the city. I remember getting my brother to drop me off and get home (he was a student at the time). It took him 1.5 hrs to do the 7 km and back. There were lots of carpooling groups. People who could shift their hours did. People who lived in the downtown core walked. People who could work from home did. And disabled people were simply homebound. Sure the city didn't shut down. But none of that was sustainable in any fashion for a long period of time. And that was at a time when the city was a lot smaller and happened when tens of thousands of workers could take extended holiday breaks.

It it were to happen today we'd basically revert to Covid WFH mode everywhere, the very thing everybody is claiming they want reversed. And we'd probably still end up with hours of traffic.
No for sure it wasn't business as usual but it was a full shut down of transit.
My memory was there was very little fine work from home that happened. Certainly less than the current arrangements in most offices.

Fully admit we need transit I'm just saying the idea 10 minute train service is going to cause everyone to drive and create total gridlock is dubious. Anyway the cuts are mostly (all?) not peak service.
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  #527  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2024, 9:36 PM
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Ottawa prepares for tax hike and major rise in transit levy, fares
Mayor Mark Sutcliffe still hopes higher governments will come through with transit funds

Elyse Skura · CBC News
Posted: Sep 11, 2024 5:27 PM EDT | Last Updated: 7 minutes ago


Staff in charge of drafting the City of Ottawa's next budget have given councillors only loose directions for filling a major transit shortfall — with a worst case scenario bringing the equivalent of a 9.9 per cent tax hike.

Mayor Mark Sutcliffe delivered the news in a press conference Wednesday morning in an address that draws heavily on talking points from his ongoing "Fairness for Ottawa" campaign.

Sutcliffe has been making the case since early August that Ottawa is being shortchanged by the Federal government.

He's argued that the Government of Canada is not providing enough money in payments made in lieu of taxes on federal properties and — together with the province — providing less support for Ottawa's ailing transit system than for other cities.

"I remain optimistic that we will get the help we need," he said. "But if we don't, we'll have no choice but to look at increasing the transit levy, increasing fares, and reducing service."

If the federal government pays up and Ontario follows suit, Sutcliffe is confident that council can keep a tax increase to 2.9 per cent. If not, be prepared to pay much more.

Members of the finance and corporate services committee will consider the budget deliberations at their Monday meeting, which include a number of eye-popping options, including a 37 per cent increase in the transit levy and a 75 per cent hike in fares.

If councillors were to address transit's full $120-million shortfall with a transit levy, city manager Wendy Stephanson confirmed taxpayers would see the equivalent of a 9.9 per cent increase — similar to Toronto's substantial tax hike last year.

But Sutcliffe said he doesn't believe councillors will choose to pull just one "lever" in their efforts to balance the budget. He said staff simply want everyone to understand the full scope of potential outcomes.

"It's not fair at all. None of this is fair to our residents," Sutcliffe said of potential transit cuts. "It's incredibly unfair to our residents that they're paying more than their fair share because other levels of government have not contributed to Ottawa in the same way that they have to other cities, so we don't want to do that."

Transit commissioner and River ward Coun. Riley Brockington called the numbers "quite shocking" and a reflection of the "very serious fiscal challenges" Ottawa is facing.

"It does not mean this is what the tax increase or or any rate increases," he told CBC. "It's simply the direction. And I absolutely will guarantee there will be some modifications."

Capital ward Coun. Shawn Menard, another transit commissioner, balked at the transit options, but said residents need to understand that the context of ongoing federal negotiations.

"I don't think that's what we would actually do. So it's not being the most transparent in that way. It's a bit more of a maybe scare tactic," he said. "This is not a plan. This is a worst case scenario on five different areas."

Menard said councillors should instead be reflecting on how to improve service to ensure that ridership rebounds.

Regardless of how councillors opt to make up the shortfall, Brockington said it's important to remain realistic.

"This is going to be challenging. Let's not sugarcoat this."

Many around City Hall remain optimistic that the federal government provide funding at the 11th hour, with Sutcliffe saying he's been in talks with Liberal MP Jenna Sudds as recently as Wednesday morning.

"If we do not get funding from the federal, provincial government, we're gonna have to look at the the range of the other choices that we have to compensate for that," transit commission chair and Stittsville ward Coun. Glen Gower told CBC.

"But we've got 100 days, 100 days approximately between now and when we have to approve a budget for 2025."

Coun. David Brown, who represents the rural Rideau-Jock ward and stood listening as Mayor Sutcliffe laid out the situation, said it's important to look at all the options before deciding how much taxes will increase.

"I don't have a crystal ball," he told CBC. "Lower is certainly better. Mortgages are going up, families are struggling, Food is expensive, gasoline is expensive. We need to make sure that we keep Ottawa affordable."

Brown also echoed a call from the mayor for anyone who's concerned to support the city's campaign for federal funding.

"If you want to make sure that your programs and services are protected, reach out to your MP. Reach out to your MPP. Make your voice heard," he said. "Get Ottawa's fair share."

The draft budget will be tabled on Nov. 13.

With files from Kate Porter

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ot...jor-rise-in-transit-levy-fares-1.7320134
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  #528  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2024, 2:19 PM
Lakeofthewood Lakeofthewood is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Ottawa prepares for tax hike and major rise in transit levy, fares
Mayor Mark Sutcliffe still hopes higher governments will come through with transit funds

Elyse Skura · CBC News
Posted: Sep 11, 2024 5:27 PM EDT | Last Updated: 7 minutes ago


Members of the finance and corporate services committee will consider the budget deliberations at their Monday meeting, which include a number of eye-popping options, including a 37 per cent increase in the transit levy and a 75 per cent hike in fares.

With files from Kate Porter

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ot...jor-rise-in-transit-levy-fares-1.7320134
Pack it up, we're done here. RIP OC Transpo, 1948 - 2024. Died to keep our property taxes artificially low.
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  #529  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2024, 2:25 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
[B]Ottawa prepares for tax hike and major rise in transit levy, fares
Mayor Mark Sutcliffe still hopes higher governments will come through with transit funds

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ot...jor-rise-in-transit-levy-fares-1.7320134
This is clearly trial baloon posturing but it would still be nice to see more details fleshed out. I think it's obvious the 75% fare hike is not across the board. Something like increasing the senior monthly pass from $50 to $85 with an exemption maybe for lower earners. The idea the $3.85 us going above $6 is ridiculous as it's not even clear that increases revenues as fare evasion and the end of many rides would eat up a lot of the revenue increase. Free rides for kids is kind of similar. Nobody is paying $18 to ride with their two kids wheras now they might be doing so for $3.85 so that's actually a loss of revenue.
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  #530  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2024, 2:36 PM
DTcrawler DTcrawler is offline
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2.9%, that alone should be enough for the province and feds to tell this guy to kick rocks.
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  #531  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2024, 4:51 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood View Post
Pack it up, we're done here. RIP OC Transpo, 1948 - 2024. Died to keep our property taxes artificially low.
F*** it. I want him to do this. Just to watch the epic reaction when the city is insanely gridlocked and half of commuters reach work in permanently pissed off road rage. And then to see the epic reversal that follows.
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  #532  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2024, 5:30 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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That's a bit clickbaity.
It says there are 3 ways to fix it:
- 75% increase in fares
- 37% increase in levy
- 120M from upper levels of government

In the end if will end up with something like 50M from Feds, 25M from Ontario, 10% increase in fares and 5% increase in levy.
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  #533  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2024, 7:18 PM
DarthVader_1961 DarthVader_1961 is online now
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Originally Posted by zzptichka View Post
That's a bit clickbaity.
It says there are 3 ways to fix it:
- 75% increase in fares
- 37% increase in levy
- 120M from upper levels of government

In the end if will end up with something like 50M from Feds, 25M from Ontario, 10% increase in fares and 5% increase in levy.
Curious to see if feds/province attach strings to any money they give.
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  #534  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2024, 7:44 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961 View Post
Curious to see if feds/province attach strings to any money they give.
Ironically I could see Ford bailing Sutcliffe out more than the Feds. While there are more votes in Toronto his inclination should be to support the tax cut mayor over Chow. Watching the whole system collapse whey he limits tax increases to 3% doesn't exactly sell fiscal restraint and would seem to set up a more liberal mayor in the next election. Though maybe Ford prefers that to play off of.

The feds could settle the property tax thing and not see too much whinging from other municipalities so I guess that is possible but doesn't seem like a huge windfall is imminent unless this is all a ruse.
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  #535  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2024, 8:15 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is online now
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
The feds could settle the property tax thing and not see too much whinging from other municipalities so I guess that is possible but doesn't seem like a huge windfall is imminent unless this is all a ruse.
Is there "property tax thing" to be settled by the feds?

No.
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  #536  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2024, 10:20 PM
DarthVader_1961 DarthVader_1961 is online now
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Is there "property tax thing" to be settled by the feds?

No.
I think he refers to cash in lieu of taxes if I am recalling correctly
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  #537  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2024, 11:12 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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There is also transit cut option. We have already heard that it will be a multi-prong solution and I expect another round of transit cuts will be part of it.
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  #538  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2024, 2:21 AM
dougvdh dougvdh is offline
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Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961 View Post
I think he refers to cash in lieu of taxes if I am recalling correctly
Which are going to continue to decrease as the Feds continue to sell off land and surplus buildings. Think about Rockcliffe Airbase, Booth / CanMet, Confederation Heights, parts of Tunneys, some 22 buildings. Of course, over time these will become City taxable lands, but there's good reason PILTs aren't going up and it isn't because the Feds are short-changing the City.
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  #539  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2024, 1:40 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by dougvdh View Post
Which are going to continue to decrease as the Feds continue to sell off land and surplus buildings. Think about Rockcliffe Airbase, Booth / CanMet, Confederation Heights, parts of Tunneys, some 22 buildings. Of course, over time these will become City taxable lands, but there's good reason PILTs aren't going up and it isn't because the Feds are short-changing the City.
And eventually when the post-Covid politics ends and sanity returns, somebody is going to understand that making FPS hiring national allows for better talent and no footprint growth at all.
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  #540  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2024, 1:59 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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And eventually when the post-Covid politics ends and sanity returns, somebody is going to understand that making FPS hiring national allows for better talent and no footprint growth at all.
Yes it would also finally fulfill a Con dream to spread out PS employment across the country.

I think the Cons will cut very deep and afte a few years as they need to regrow to do what they want the new jobs will be fully remote. There is blissful ignorance to this in Ottawa.
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