OC Transpo

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The easternmost segment was shut down to hook up the systems on the eastern extension. NABD.

OK thanks for the info.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Definitely agree. Downtown Ottawa isn't self-sustaining enough nor it is enough of an unavoidable regional destination hub for it to be able to survive congestion charges unscathed.

Don't get me wrong, it's a decent enough downtown but good congestion charge cities have a much higher concentration of stuff like entertainment options like cinemas, theatres, large arenas, stadiums, shopping, hospitals, educational institutions.

In Ottawa a lot of this stuff is located either in inner non-downtown areas, or in the suburbs.

People say downtown Ottawa is congested and while this may be true traffic-wise, much of that is people simply passing through downtown. They aren't necessarily stopping to do stuff downtown. When I go to visit family in Orleans I pass through downtown Ottawa. But when I do that I am not patronizing downtown Ottawa in any way other than using road space.

You make some good points it is certainly not risk free but neither are our other choices except a 40% transit tax increase for people who think taxpayers can pay whatever you ask.

Getting pass through revenue is a feature not a bug. In Ottawa I would assume it would be a peak hour only charge. 7-10 and 3-6 ish. Say $5. Would push some to transit a lot of others to change the time of their trip and most importantly bring in a lot of revenue including from lots of non City of Ottawa taxpayers that use our roads. (like you )

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Definitely agree. Downtown Ottawa isn't self-sustaining enough nor it is enough of an unavoidable regional destination hub for it to be able to survive congestion charges unscathed.

Don't get me wrong, it's a decent enough downtown but good congestion charge cities have a much higher concentration of stuff like entertainment options like cinemas, theatres, large arenas, stadiums, shopping, hospitals, educational institutions.

In Ottawa a lot of this stuff is located either in inner non-downtown areas, or in the suburbs.

People say downtown Ottawa is congested and while this may be true traffic-wise, much of that is people simply passing through downtown. They aren't necessarily stopping to do stuff downtown. When I go to visit family in Orleans I pass through downtown Ottawa. But when I do that I am not patronizing downtown Ottawa in any way other than using road space.

Isn't that theoretically the exact case which would warrant a congestion charge? You want to dissuade people from contributing to congestion downtown, especially those who are not injecting $ into the local economy while they're at it.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Isn't that theoretically the exact case which would warrant a congestion charge? You want to dissuade people from contributing to congestion downtown, especially those who are not injecting $ into the local economy while they're at it.

Yes the fact that we have a lot of non-Ottawa taxpayers passing through would bring in a lot of revenue. Gatineau to Orleans would add revenue only but a lot of the Gatineau to Montreal traffic would be re reouted.

To avoid a suburban rebellion I would use half to reduce the transit tax and the other half to increase funding to transit.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Be careful what we hope for. It could make living in certain parts of more central Ottawa less attractive.

What do you mean?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes the fact that we have a lot of non-Ottawa taxpayers passing through would bring in a lot of revenue. Gatineau to Orleans would add revenue only but a lot of the Gatineau to Montreal traffic would be re reouted.

To avoid a suburban rebellion I would use half to reduce the transit tax and the other half to increase funding to transit.

I suppose you'd make money off us for those Gatineau-Orleans trips but OTOH we'd probably be less likely to frequent businesses in downtown Ottawa. We have an outdoor pizza oven and the best fresh pizza crusts in town are from La Bottega Nicastro in the market. We drive there from time to time in the summer. Not sure we'd do that if a 5-dollar congestion charge (or more) was slapped on us just to enter central Ottawa.

Same goes for shopping at the Rideau Centre, when you add parking to the mix already.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I suppose you'd make money off us for those Gatineau-Orleans trips but OTOH we'd probably be less likely to frequent businesses in downtown Ottawa. We have an outdoor pizza oven and the best fresh pizza crusts in town are from La Bottega Nicastro in the market. We drive there from time to time in the summer. Not sure we'd do that if a 5-dollar congestion charge (or more) was slapped on us just to enter central Ottawa.

Same goes for shopping at the Rideau Centre, when you add parking to the mix already.

My plan would be rush hour only. Week Day only. You might lose some after work meet ups but no plan has no collateral damage.

Everyone says the increased transit service will add riders so we should make up some of that. As office workers return to downtown more will stay if doing so doesn't double their commute time. Park and rides would also increase in appeal.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

My plan would be rush hour only. Week Day only. You might lose some after work meet ups but no plan has no collateral damage.

Everyone says the increased transit service will add riders so we should make up some of that. As office workers return to downtown more will stay if doing so doesn't double their commute time. Park and rides would also increase in appeal.

Oh, have to say I'm in favour of most anything that will get more downtown office workers out of their cars.

It's shocking how many more people are driving downtown now that they don't have to go in five days a week.

I am very interested in seeing how the feds upping their requirement to three days will change things starting next week.

A lot of people I know have been paying to 20+ bucks a day twice a week since we got out of the pandemic. Now it's going to be 60+ bucks a week plus gas. Unless they pay for monthly parking I guess but then we're getting back to the pre-pandemic economics of commuting by car vs commuting by transit.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Oh, have to say I'm in favour of most anything that will get more downtown office workers out of their cars.

It's shocking how many more people are driving downtown now that they don't have to go in five days a week.

I am very interested in seeing how the feds upping their requirement to three days will change things starting next week.

A lot of people I know have been paying to 20+ bucks a day twice a week since we got out of the pandemic. Now it's going to be 60+ bucks a week plus gas. Unless they pay for monthly parking I guess but then we're getting back to the pre-pandemic economics of commuting by car vs commuting by transit.

Yes interesting if 3 days will be the tipping point. The parking tax idea has some of the benefits of a congestion charge and is a lot easier to implement. Woud $30 a day dissuade people ?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes interesting if 3 days will be the tipping point. The parking tax idea has some of the benefits of a congestion charge and is a lot easier to implement. Woud $30 a day dissuade people ?

It's also going to be 4 days a week for federal government executives.

[lrt's friend]

There has been limited parking downtown. This and higher parking rates will eventually drive people back to transit, if we have not totally ruined commuter service, which the city has been intent on doing since 2019. We may be creating a unsustainable situation. Expensive limited parking and an inadequate transit alternative. This will increase pressures to move offices out of downtown, which will make Ottawa a more car dependent city in the longterm and our very expensive rail transit system less meeting the needs of Ottawans. Look at those planned bus cuts, designed to reduce 'capacity' to reach downtown.

[rocketphish]

Cutting OC Transpo train service now makes very little sense
It would be better to wait a few months and gauge the impact of public servants' return to office so we can get a better picture of the level of service needed.

Mohammed Adam
Published Aug 29, 2024 • Last updated 1 hour ago • 3 minute read

When Ottawa Council resumes sitting on Wednesday after the summer break, the session will be dominated by discussions of the 2025 budget. What council does with next year’s property taxes will be closely watched.

But given how important transit will be in those budget discussions, the first order of business must be a review of OC Transpo’s decision to cut non-peak train services, which has already gone into effect.

Normally, the trains run every five minutes between 6:30 and 9:30 a.m., and that service remains unchanged. But from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. weekdays, service frequency will go from every five minutes to 10 minutes on the Confederation Line, in order to save $1.6 million. Evening service will also be reduced. It is not a massive change, but it is surprising that OC Transpo is cutting service just when public servants are set to return to their offices three days a week, which would potentially boost ridership.

OC Transpo says the announcement earlier this month of the cuts will allow returning students and federal employees enough time to prepare. But why now, when OC Transpo is desperate for riders?

OC Transpo, which is expected to rack up a $49.8 million deficit this year, is certainly right to make every effort to save as much money as it can, given its precarious finances. Mayor Mark Sutcliffe has sounded the alarm about LRT cost overruns due to the pandemic, and the resulting loss in ridership as federal employees worked from home.

Sutcliffe says downtown ridership as a result fell by 36 per cent, costing OC Transpo $36 million in lost fare revenue. Cumulatively, OC Transpo is facing an annual operating shortfall of $140 million for the next three years.

Of course, OC Transpo is not alone in this predicament. Public transit agencies in cities such as Toronto, Halifax, Vancouver and Calgary, are all facing significant revenue shortfalls. Without help, Sutcliffe says, Ottawa’s transit levy could go up 37 per cent, a hike that would translate into a seven per cent property tax increase for residents. Under the circumstances, if trains are running empty in non-peak hours, it makes sense for OC Transpo to reduce services and save money.

The problem, however, is the timing of the decision, which council must scrutinize. September could well be a turning point for the struggling public transit agency, with students, many of whom use transit, returning to class for the fall semester. Even more important, federal public servants are set to return to their downtown offices in September, likely increasing ridership. So why is OC Transpo reducing service at this time?

“The idea that the city can cut service 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. while still hoping federal public service workers will take transit and improve ridership, sounds like a plan that’s destined to fail,” says Nathan Prier, president of the Canadian Association of Professional Employees, which represents more than 25,000 federal employees. “Decreasing frequency (of service) is not the way to get people back on the LRT.” He is right.

It seems to me that it would have made more sense to wait a few months and gauge the impact of the return to offices in order to get an accurate picture of the level of service required, before making service reductions. OC Transpo may have good reasons for deciding to make cuts at this time (a decision of city staff) but these haven’t been articulated publicly. Why the rush to make the cut now? What would be lost if the city waited a few months?

Council needs to ask questions to ensure staff have made the right decision. If not, the changes must be suspended until the end of fall to get a better picture of ridership numbers — then to properly plan for the future.

Mohammed Adam is an Ottawa journalist and commentator. Reach him at [email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/adam-cutting-oc-transpo-train-service-now-makes-very-little-sense

[Acajack]

Heard this on the news and found it interesting in the context of this thread.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/gatineau-promising-transit-improvements-under-080000906.html

There are a couple of reasons why they're able to do this:

- More money from Québec

- Fare increases

- A vehicle license surtax of 60 bucks for all vehicles in the STO service area

Even so, I'm a bit shocked that we aren't seeing cuts because STO buses are way emptier than ever, and never returned to anything even close to pre-pandemic ridership levels.

Maybe the return to the office for public servants next week will give it a boost?

[lrt's friend]

It is pretty obvious that Line 1 cuts became necessary when the bus cuts were delayed because of the delay in opening of Line 2. The changes in bus routes are dependent on Line 2 operating whether directly or indirectly.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It is pretty obvious that Line 1 cuts became necessary when the bus cuts were delayed because of the delay in opening of Line 2. The changes in bus routes are dependent on Line 2 operating whether directly or indirectly.

In case you were somehow not already aware, there operating deficit was already going to be tens of millions of dollars regardless of the launch of Line 2 and cuts to bus service.

The changes to Line 1 have little to nothing to do with Line 2.

[Richard Eade]

It looks like no-one else picked up on this CTV News article:
OC Transpo saving millions with delayed launch of Trillium Line

In the article, Josh Pringle talks of how the Transit Services Delivery and Rail Operations budget “posted a $13.9 million surplus in the January to June period.” And how that surplus is expected to climb to $18.4 million by the end of 2024.

We keep hearing about how the revenue was $25.1 million short for the first six months of 2024. But the next 6 months will only have a, estimated shortfall of $7.4 million – so maybe the following years won’t be as bad as the Mayor predicts. A $25.1 million deficit in only 6 months makes a great sound-byte for the Mayor, but he doesn’t go on to say that any revenue shortfall appears to be growing more slowly. Nor does he mention that a lot of the deficit is being offset by savings by OC Transpo elsewhere.

On the subject of lost revenue, the article states that $9.7 million of that is because of “customers using a discounted fare”. I find this a bit odd. Since fewer people are using a monthly pass for commuting to work, I expected them to be paying the full fare on individual trips. There are only a few discounted fare categories, and they are quite specific. How are so many workers accessing these discounts? Or is it that the only people left taking transit are the ones who belong to the special groups, and don’t have another choice? Anyone who would be paying full fare has opted for something else.

[ponyboycurtis]

Oc Transpo really has some ways of endearing its customers.

I'd like to share a story of coming home late on Wednesday night.

If I do not wish to walk from South Keys station, the busses that bring me home are the 90 and the 92. The 92 stops service somewhere around 11:30pm which is fine but earlier than I would like as it's much quicker and doesn't blast your kidneys with the half dozen speed bumps in the main post office parking lot(if you know, you know)

I've made a previous post that the stretch of Paul Anka in between Uplands and McCarthy during the day will have all 4 busses (Greenboro and Hurdman direction) all pass by within perhaps 5 minutes of each other. That seems horribly inefficient but besides the point.

I often walk to South Keys with good weather because Cahill is a lovely tree canopied street and Sawmill Creek always has lots of birds and waterfowl etc. It's a great walk assuming there isn't a multi year construction detour to pass through the station.

Sometimes when I am in a hurry though, I will catch whatever local suits me. I use the travel planner from OC Transpo website and generally speaking its quite accurate when I depart during the day. You can almost bet that any given bus at my corner will show up within 2-3 minutes of the posted time. Usually later rather than early which is a good thing.

Here is the flip side of the story and it is far from the first time.

Coming in from the west end I am having some great luck with my connections. There is something about Hurdman that is my kryptonite though. Coming back home in the late evening that place never fails to disappoint. I arrive at Hurdman at 12:08am. The GPS screen tells me 12 minutes which coincides nicely with the last bus sheduled to depart at 12:21

The GPS ticker went down to 9 minutes and stayed there. I am watching bus after bus roll in and out of the station and none of them are mine. I also see many 97s go by which I could easily take and walk from South Keys. But I persist. Surely they won't cancel the last run of a night? RIGHT? Surely.. with the run still posted on the screen it's going to show up right? RIGHT?

I suppose I foolishly waited nearly an hour and eventually flagged down a driver (I've done this before) and asked if he could be a champ and get on the radio to dispatch and tell me what the story is with the 90. He radios and says.. well the last bus left at 12:26. It did not. I've been here the whole time at the night stop. He just kind of shrugs. Fair enough. Dispatch doesn't even know where the bus is. Par for the course?

So at this point I just jump on the next 97(shoutout to 1am 97s btw. That thing got me to SK in like.. 10 minutes ) At this point I am more annoyed with myself that I didn't just jump on the last 3 or 4 97s that the little birdy on my shoulder was telling me to do.

It's all good. I got my Ipod.. tunes are bumping, 15 minute walk from SK to my place.

HERE IS THE KICKER!!!!

As I walk up to the entrance to my parking lot... guess what FING bus rolls by the exact stop I would use. At 1:45 am! Roughly speaking that is an hour after its sheduled time. This is the last bus of the night!! I had to laugh at the irony... while I also audibly cursed that passing bus to hell and back while the driver looked strangely at this man shaking his fist in the night.

I'm not sure how a single last bus of the night can be an hour late with dispatch also having no answer. If OC ever needs to wonder why people have become so disillusioned with their service, its crap like this that totally falls outside of .. I dunno.. expected delays or a reasonable understanding that not everything is perfect?

I'm somewhat young.. able bodied.. I really enjoy walking.. I have a bicycle.. I have money for Uber.. I have a DL.. I have a vehicle. Don't jerk me around OC. I am more than happy to chill on the bus after a night out with my Ipod, staying safe and legal and also saving money on an Uber.

That being said.. Guess what I took home with a friend from the Dominion Tavern last night. $19. door to door in 15 mins. Transit fare for two is $7.30? Your're on thin ice OC!

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

I'm somewhat young.. able bodied.. I really enjoy walking.. I have a bicycle.. I have money for Uber.. I have a DL.. I have a vehicle. Don't jerk me around OC. I am more than happy to chill on the bus after a night out with my Ipod, staying safe and legal and also saving money on an Uber.

That being said.. Guess what I took home with a friend from the Dominion Tavern last night. $19. door to door in 15 mins. Transit fare for two is $7.30? Your're on thin ice OC!

Boom. And this is what the powers that be at OC don't understand. No one in this situation (I'm in similar one) is going to take transit given how they run the system. It's not a viable alternative to make people switch away from WALKING or BIKING, let alone driving. And it never will be with how they run things. This is what happens when your entire system is built around serving commuters to downtown only, and you refuse to even attempt to change it.

[DarthVader_1961]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st...-for-return-of-public-servants-1.7314159

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

Boom. And this is what the powers that be at OC don't understand. No one in this situation (I'm in similar one) is going to take transit given how they run the system. It's not a viable alternative to make people switch away from WALKING or BIKING, let alone driving. And it never will be with how they run things. This is what happens when your entire system is built around serving commuters to downtown only, and you refuse to even attempt to change it.

OCTranspo loses money on almost every ride. Why should OCTranspo spend hundreds of millions of dollars to try to compete with Uber for the post-bar business?