Canadian Skyline Thread III

[zoomer]

Thanks for the Google Maps link harls.

Every city in Canada has a legacy of planning mistakes that we’re still trying to undo, but we keep piling on. Not to pick on this one too harshly as it’s not the worst by any means, but it should be possible to nearly always design buildings and neighbourhoods that don’t feel depressing. That’s not too much to ask.

[ciudad_del_norte]

Originally Posted by rousseau

When you zoom out you really see how American-looking the prairie cities are compared to the rest of Canada. The 49th parallel isn't an architectural barrier like the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence are.

What about it is particularily american looking? (Genuine question out of curiousity here...not trying to start a fight).

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte

What about it is particularily american looking? (Genuine question out of curiousity here...not trying to start a fight).

The acres and acres of long geometric blocks with the same (or mostly the same) housing stock, all having laneways.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ca...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

[MattBerryOfficial]

Originally Posted by rousseau

The acres and acres of long geometric blocks with the same (or mostly the same) housing stock, all having laneways.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ca...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

Then there is this in Ontario and New York State.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9231...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2383...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

Worlds apart.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by MattBerryOfficial

Then there is this in Ontario and New York State.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9231...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2383...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

Worlds apart.

Sarcasm noted, Mr. Matt Berry (if that really is your name!). Granted, to anyone outside of North America the differences aren't going to be all that noticeable. And there are obviously exceptions to my characterization. But in terms of your two links, the blocks in Buffalo are a lot longer than in Hamilton, and there is not the same degree of precise geometric consistency in the layout in Hamilton that you see in Buffalo (and in most American cities in general).

The focus shouldn't actually be on zooming out, I'll admit. It's really at street level where my thesis comes to bear, i.e. Buffalo and Detroit look very little like Hamilton and Toronto, whereas many neighbourhoods in Winnipeg and the other prairie cities look essentially interchangeable with any number of American cities, particularly in the Great Plains.

[MattBerryOfficial]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Sarcasm noted, Mr. Matt Berry (if that really is your name!). Granted, to anyone outside of North America the differences aren't going to be all that noticeable. And there are obviously exceptions to my characterization. But in terms of your two links, the blocks in Buffalo are a lot longer than in Hamilton, and there is not the same degree of precise geometric consistency in the layout in Hamilton that you see in Buffalo (and in most American cities in general).

The focus shouldn't actually be on zooming out, I'll admit. It's really at street level where my thesis comes to bear, i.e. Buffalo and Detroit look very little like Hamilton and Toronto, whereas many neighbourhoods in Winnipeg and the other prairie cities look essentially interchangeable with any number of American cities, particularly in the Great Plains.

Some street views randomly picked from the Buffalo & Hamilton areas I previously linked. They look pretty darn similar to me.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2373...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9189...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by MattBerryOfficial

Some street views randomly picked from the Buffalo & Hamilton areas I previously linked. They look pretty darn similar to me.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2373...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9189...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

We've done this before on SSP. There's little to no brick in Buffalo, whereas southern Ontario is full of brick. Also, in your links you see more consistency in housing type along the street in Buffalo due to the larger presence of contract housing in the 19th and early 20th centuries, reflecting the scale and intensity of the economic growth that Canada never saw. Go up and down the Buffalo street in your link and the houses basically all look alike, they're all two storey. Not the case in the Hamilton link, where you've got a mish-mash of sizes and designs.

Having said that, Hamilton's east end actually does have a sizeable amount of worker housing with streets full of the same design of house due to the early 20th century industrial boom, a unique phenomenon in southern Ontario.

A fun thread that covered this: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=214641

[MattBerryOfficial]

Originally Posted by rousseau

We've done this before on SSP. There's little to no brick in Buffalo, whereas southern Ontario is full of brick. Also, in your links you see more consistency in housing type along the street in Buffalo due to the larger presence of contract housing in the 19th and early 20th centuries, reflecting the scale and intensity of the economic growth that Canada never saw. Go up and down the Buffalo street in your link and the houses basically all look alike, they're all two storey. Not the case in the Hamilton link, where you've got a mish-mash of sizes and designs.

Having said that, Hamilton's east end actually does have a sizeable amount of worker housing with streets full of the same design of house due to the early 20th century industrial boom, a unique phenomenon in southern Ontario.

A fun thread that covered this: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=214641

I don't think the Great lakes are a barrier to US architecture as you are claiming. Sure there will be slight differences in materials, built for, the length of blocks, etc. But these slight differences exist everywhere in NA. Really the biggest contributor to what our cities look like is climate. Thats why BC cities are similar to the PNW, prairies like plains, Ontario like the midwest, Atlantic like northern New England. Quebec is largely unique but even it has pretty similar looking towns to areas of NY, NH, and Vermont. Then you have areas in the US nothing like Canada, and they are generally all in the sunbelt. Nothing in Canada like Miami, New Orleans, LA, or Phoenix. The reason for this should be obvious. To say that the plains states and provinces are uniquely similar just doesn't hold up.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by MattBerryOfficial

I don't think the Great lakes are a barrier to US architecture as you are claiming. Sure there will be slight differences in materials, built for, the length of blocks, etc. But these slight differences exist everywhere in NA. Really the biggest contributor to what our cities look like is climate.

Climate is a given. But southern Ontario is an outlier due to differences in historical development. We were placid British colonialists in the late 18th and early 19th centuries while the American midwest was booming and creating unprecedented concentrations of wealth, and this is reflected in major differences in architecture and building patterns.

Driving an hour from Buffalo to Hamilton is not at all the same as driving the other way to Rochester. On the other hand, if you fell asleep on the drive from Winnipeg to Fargo North Dakota you could be forgiven for not noticing that you'd entered a new country.

This is more a debate over the degree to which the differences are noticeable to people, and I admit that being a native of this place makes me more attuned to the contrast, to the point of bias. I do have to remind myself that a European or Asian spending time in Buffalo and Hamilton might very well consider them more alike than not. At first glance, at least.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by zoomer

Thanks for the Google Maps link harls.

Every city in Canada has a legacy of planning mistakes that we’re still trying to undo, but we keep piling on. Not to pick on this one too harshly as it’s not the worst by any means, but it should be possible to nearly always design buildings and neighbourhoods that don’t feel depressing. That’s not too much to ask.

I had friends who lived in one of those buildings back in the 2000s. I once got all drunk on OE at their place, lost one of my shoes (in the apartment), and decided to go to a bar across the street (in the mall parking lot) anyway. This was during a Winnipeg winter. I learned something valuable about homelessness that day: OE hits different.

Anyway the apartments were big a cheap. Perfect for students or people on their first jobs. The surroundings are depressing looking, but you actually have pretty good amenities at the mall, the highway-looking stroad out front has a speed limit of 50 km/h, and bus service to downtown and the U of M is pretty good. It's even walkable to some of Winnipeg's best neighbourhoods. And the SFH neighbourhood behind isn't as single-use as it looks. There's a pretty good legion back there with snooker tables.

I'm not saying it's awesome or anything. But you could do worse. Some suburban areas are just impossible to unfuck--tangles of stroads and cul-de-sacs that'll never gel urban no matter how many far-flung transit stops and TODs we build. This area though? It'll never be great but throw up some five and ones on the mall parking lot and loosen the zoning a bit, I bet it would be more than OK.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

It is. Tabletop schmable-top

I'm also really happy with how the new buildings have worked in Montreal's skyline. I think I was worried they'd create an effect like the ugly buildings east of Le 1250 René-Lévesque. But they've actually drawn the skyline westward in an undulating shape that pleases my eye. It helps that the buildings seem to look good individually.

[WhipperSnapper]

You pretty much have a desirable Toronto streetcar suburb adding some mixed commercial/ live work in low rises/towns on the three left to right boulevards to the tree lined grid. This could be accomplished still today although probably in larger assemblages with the aforementioned 5 over 1s. More people living there but, blander.

[J.OT13]

From Harley613. LeBreton Flats, with Hull across the River, and Downtown Ottawa to the right.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by rousseau

When you zoom out you really see how American-looking the prairie cities are compared to the rest of Canada. The 49th parallel isn't an architectural barrier like the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence are.

Indeed, although the 'urban prairie' that dominates areas of many large American cities is notably absent of the 49th parallel, along with those areas of Canada (hard to believe, but something like 70% of the Canadian population resides below the 49th parallel*)

Urban Prairie:






https://www.google.com/maps/place/De...oASAFQAw%3D%3D


*

https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/ca...-map-surprise/

[Mr Tall Forehead]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Sarcasm noted, Mr. Matt Berry (if that really is your name!). Granted, to anyone outside of North America the differences aren't going to be all that noticeable. And there are obviously exceptions to my characterization. But in terms of your two links, the blocks in Buffalo are a lot longer than in Hamilton, and there is not the same degree of precise geometric consistency in the layout in Hamilton that you see in Buffalo (and in most American cities in general).

The focus shouldn't actually be on zooming out, I'll admit. It's really at street level where my thesis comes to bear, i.e. Buffalo and Detroit look very little like Hamilton and Toronto, whereas many neighbourhoods in Winnipeg and the other prairie cities look essentially interchangeable with any number of American cities, particularly in the Great Plains.

The long straight blocks in older parts of Winnipeg are the result of the original river lot (seigneurial) survey system that parceled off land in the Red River valley, not early developers returning from an ox cart trip to Chicago or Kansas City and trying to replicate it here.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/manitobamaps/3765028579/

Farmers owned parcels 300 or so feet wide and two miles deep extending out from the river so the predominant development pattern was stick a road down the middle and flank lots on either sides. No real need for curves or bends because there were no geographic features or elevation to work around.

Many parts of older Winnipeg do have shorter blocks with more cross streets.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.88000...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.93430...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

But when the area in the original view first started developing (North River Heights) it was the city's high end homes were being built (and still are). The minimal cross streets was likely a selling feature as it meant that only residents of your fancy pants block have reason to drive on your street. Through traffic is an issue now, but it wasn't then because there was nothing at the end of the residential streets but bald-ass prairie.

[LFC]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Kelowna moving on up.

It really has exploded with towers over the past 5 years giving itself a decent little skyline. For only having a population of 132,000 it is really doing its best to try and make a name for itself.

The two new towers to the rear middle right, Water st by the Park, are really adding to the skyline with 28 and 42 stories (the 42 story Eli tower will be the tallest tower between Calgary and the Lower Mainland) going vertical quickly. And even the South Pandosy (Sopa) area in the background is creating a nice low rise skyline to the area down Lakeshore dr.


https://robmosesphotography.com/2024...ng-in-kelowna/

[J.OT13]

Kelowna looking amazing. Punches well above its weight.

[MolsonExport]

Second that! Beautiful shot.

[J.OT13]

Rideau Street, Sandy Hill, uOttawa and Centretown across the Canal.


https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...885873139.html

[MolsonExport]

^that shot reminds me greatly of the so-called Concordia Ghetto (aka, Shaughnessy Village) area of downtown Montreal

old shot of Concordia Ghetto: