Winnipeg | CentrePort Canada

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

As per FactaNV

I had no idea this thread existed lol

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The rail park in CentrePort is under active construction near Roser Rd and CCW.

Is there any actual rail built in the CentrePort rail park, by the Focus Equities people? It seems these customers (Fastfraste, 4 tracks, Highway Motor) in the rail park don't have rail access and are setting up rail adjacent basically. Just like they are adjacent to the airport. I don't know if I've ever seen an actual plan about what the common use facility is supposed to be.

Patterson has undergone a rail expansion project in the last couple years, north of the CPKC main track. Maybe that's the rail track that was being built.

[Biff]

Plan

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Biff

Plan

Man oh man I hope they can find some heavy industry to move into here with the railhead. I'm talking a factory that can provide good value-added jobs. We're desperately in need of more jobs like that to provide opportunity for people to join the middle class. Making 65k a year with a high school education could help solve a lot of problems in Winnipeg's inner city. Maybe the feds can take a break spending 10 garillion bucks bringing ev factories to S Ontario and spread the wealth a little. Just a smidge haha.

[bomberjet]

Thanks for sharing that Biff. Is the larger document available? I dont think I've seen that specific render.

I've seen some of the plans in terms of the green rail routes. We've done work on proposed tenants in this area. But the actual yard part. What is it, just tracks? Or is there a cross dock or what's the plan for that?

In terms of tenants, we already know the Lithium/EV slowdown has put plans on hold elsewhere. Same here at CentrePort.

[bomberjet]

Overall I'm struggling a bit with the tenants in a rail served industrial park. Freight companies really aren't the best suited for that (rail served land) and they'll pay a premium for it.

It's industry that produces goods, like FactNV mentioned, that need rail access. Maybe the site for Highway Motor doesn't actually touch the rail corridor. But ya still early days for CentrePort. At least there's traction.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Thanks for sharing that Biff. Is the larger document available? I dont think I've seen that specific render.

I've seen some of the plans in terms of the green rail routes. We've done work on proposed tenants in this area. But the actual yard part. What is it, just tracks? Or is there a cross dock or what's the plan for that?

In terms of tenants, we already know the Lithium/EV slowdown has put plans on hold elsewhere. Same here at CentrePort.

I believe there is plans for a crossdock which makes sense for the customs clearance zones.

[bon_vivant]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Maybe the feds can take a break spending 10 garillion bucks bringing ev factories to S Ontario and spread the wealth a little. Just a smidge haha.

Federal government: "New jobs for Canadians!" Translation: New jobs for Ontarians. It doesn't matter which party is in charge, it's the same old story.

[bodaggin]

The problem for Centerport from a transloading/intermodal perspective is our RailCo's —. CN especially.

Winnipeg to Vancouver CN: 8 Days!!
Winnipeg to Vancouver CP: 3 Days

I can get that journey done by a team truck in just over 24hr. So CN isn't even a contender. CP is bordering competitive, but at 3 days, they're still in that toss-up zone of whether I choose truck or intermodal. Depending on cost, my distance to terminal, and total trip distance. People are lazy. They make the easy call. They pick the method that can go from wherever, to wherever, fast. That's a truck.

For intermodal to out-compete trucking, these RailCo's need drastically slash shipping times, otherwise that transfer yard will sit empty.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

The problem for Centerport from a transloading/intermodal perspective is our RailCo's —. CN especially.

Winnipeg to Vancouver CN: 8 Days!!
Winnipeg to Vancouver CP: 3 Days

I can get that journey done by a team truck in just over 24hr. So CN isn't even a contender. CP is bordering competitive, but at 3 days, they're still in that toss-up zone of whether I choose truck or intermodal. Depending on cost, my distance to terminal, and total trip distance. People are lazy. They make the easy call. They pick the method that can go from wherever, to wherever, fast. That's a truck.

For intermodal to out-compete trucking, these RailCo's need drastically slash shipping times, otherwise that transfer yard will sit empty.

I think you have looked at the wrong table for CN. Their web site page I just looked at says its a 4 day trip from Winnipeg to Vancouver. But on the reverse trip for some reason its an 8 day trip from Vancouver to Winnipeg.

CN is still 1 day slower than CPKC from Winnipeg to Vancouver.

[bomberjet]

Freight by rail is far more cost efficient than trucking.

Also on CN website is 3.3 days for intermodal service from Winnipeg to Vancouver.

Winnipeg to Prince Rupert should be shorter than that on the CN network as it's based on the Winnipeg-Edmonton main track corridor.

[harls]

Isn't 1 train = 300 trucks?

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by cllew

I think you have looked at the wrong table for CN. Their web site page I just looked at says its a 4 day trip from Winnipeg to Vancouver. But on the reverse trip for some reason its an 8 day trip from Vancouver to Winnipeg.

CN is still 1 day slower than CPKC from Winnipeg to Vancouver.

Ya you're right. It's 4 days Winnipeg to Vancouver (export), but 8 days Vancouver to Winnipeg (import). Same data buried 2 different locations on the site as attachments. I'm guessing you're looking at this one.

[bomberjet]

CN Transit times available here.
https://www.cn.ca/en/customer-centre/prices-tariffs-transit-times/

Intermodal ramp to ramp times. this is where i got the 3.3 hour number.
https://www.cn.ca/-/media/files/customer...sit-times/north-america-ramp-to-ramp.pdf

The 8 day import time likely starts at arrival in port, not travel time.

In my searching, CPKC times were less easy to find. Edit: It's here https://www.cpkcr.com/en/customer-resources/shipping-guides-resources?target=intermodalschedule

CN also ships bulk freight through Prince Rupert in addition to Vancouver. I think they only ship containers through Vancouver. CPKC does not use Prince Rupert on their network. Generally, CPKC is Vancouver, CN is Prince Rupert as their networks are closer and more direct to those locations respectively.

[bomberjet]

This link is a map of the rail network in Canada, and visually you can see what I described below, CPKC in the south through Calgary, CN in the north through Edmonton.

https://rac.jmaponline.net/canadianrailatlas/

[cllew]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

CN Transit times available here.
https://www.cn.ca/en/customer-centre/prices-tariffs-transit-times/

Intermodal ramp to ramp times. this is where i got the 3.3 hour number.
https://www.cn.ca/-/media/files/customer...sit-times/north-america-ramp-to-ramp.pdf

The 8 day import time likely starts at arrival in port, not travel time.

In my searching, CPKC times were less easy to find.

CN also ships bulk freight through Prince Rupert instead of Vancouver. I think they only ship containers through Vancouver.

I read it as ramp to ramp which I thought was from when put on a rail car at the origin and taken off at the destination, but I could be wrong. Is the container in the railway's control on the dock side stacks or do they take possession of it when it gets delivered to their loading area?

I always let UPS / Purolator / Amazon logistics worry about how to get things here to me in Winnipeg

As for finding shipping times I think if you were a registered customer you would have access to each of the railways internet portals that give exact times as it would factor in any track slow orders or rerouting due to derailments or track work.

[bomberjet]

Ya I don't know, its complex haha I also notice the vancouver to winnipeg intermodal only departs twice per week. Where as the other way it doesnt specify.

It might be a bit convoluted as it's 1.8 days to edmonton. Then from there they could reassemble trains and then head off to Winnipeg. So maybe wouldn't take 8 days.

But I think overall back to bodaggins original point, CPKC is quicker than CN to Vancouver. And they tout this in their marketing strategies.

[bodaggin]

Yes. Keep in mind those are ramp-to-ramp times. They don't include the transfer and last mile times of a daycab (if you're not on a rail-spur). This drives up total time even more. So the core rail line needs to be chooching like a well oiled machine for intermodal win over truck business.

Rail isn't much cheaper than truck in practice either.

It should be. But isn't really.

CN Intermodal from Edmonton to Vancouver is $1500. For a 1,100km trip. Or $1.36/km. Again, add local truck delivery on top of this. While FTL trucking rates aren't much more than $1.60 to $2 per km. And a truck has infinite locations, no transfers, and fast service. It's hard to beat a truck. That's why so many are on the road.

My point from all of this is the RailCo's need to get their act together, improve delivery times, and slash costs. Then intermodal wins (as it should).

[bodaggin]

I mean we talk about high speed rail in this country. Yet neither CP or CN even has a coast-to-coast dual trackway. For 2-way rail traffic without switching. It's still single track in many locations. For LOW SPEED rail.

And it's not a money issue. These companies are flush with cash.

CN did $5.6B net on $17B topline last year. Over 30% margins. Instead of paying down debt, investing in their network, or radically improving service; they dumped the proceeds into dividends and massive stock buybacks. Even their workers don't feel they're paid enough.

RailCo mismanagement is next level.

[cllew]

I recall reading somewhere on some of the rail forums that Hunter Harrison when he ran both national railways pulled out dual tracks in some areas to save maintenance costs as rail traffic dropped.

A few years later traffic increased and neither CN or CP could handle it in single track territory he created.