OC Transpo

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

To be fair, many of those roads are only proposals and who knows when they will be built. Furthermore, those areas are also growth areas with increasing tax bases. Infrastructure does need to be built where population is growing fastest.

Funny, how that argument isn't allowed for any other mode of transport.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

Jesus, that’s enraging. What’s the time frame for that spending?

Edit: Didn’t see that 10 year time frame. Still.

Yep. That's why it's hard to buy their BS. They will rubber stamp just about any road expansion without any serious consideration of cost impact, alternatives, etc. They'll pay $400M to sports group to literally build less housing without even much of a debate. They vote down zoning changes that would bring in federal housing funds. On and on. But suddenly cry poor when it's transit.

Remember these choices next time you see a garbage can flowing in a park or you're waiting for a bus for 30 mins or you find your local library has cut hours. Just remember, this is what all the suburbanites voted for. This is what they want Ottawa to be like. Mostly because the core of the city and transit are nothing but means to a paycheck and a vibrant city means sweet FA.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yep. That's why it's hard to buy their BS. They will rubber stamp just about any road expansion without any serious consideration of cost impact, alternatives, etc. They'll pay $400M to sports group to literally build less housing without even much of a debate. They vote down zoning changes that would bring in federal housing funds. On and on. But suddenly cry poor when it's transit.

Remember these choices next time you see a garbage can flowing in a park or you're waiting for a bus for 30 mins or you find your local library has cut hours. Just remember, this is what all the suburbanites voted for. This is what they want Ottawa to be like. Mostly because the core of the city and transit are nothing but means to a paycheck and a vibrant city means sweet FA.

Believe me, I curse the mentality you’re describing daily. If you’re someone who dreams of walkability, urbanity, etc, there is zero future here.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

Believe me, I curse the mentality you’re describing daily. If you’re someone who dreams of walkability, urbanity, etc, there is zero future here.

Yep. It's going to get worse and worse. Ironically, you know what might change the current trajectory? A change of government dropping 20 000 federal layoffs in Ottawa should help cut growth for a decade and temporarily stop the enshittification.

If you value walkability and good urbanism, in the long run, probably best to plan an exit. I am. This city is hopeless.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yep. It's going to get worse and worse. Ironically, you know what might change the current trajectory? A change of government dropping 20 000 federal layoffs in Ottawa should help cut growth for a decade and temporarily stop the enshittification.

If you value walkability and good urbanism, in the long run, probably best to plan an exit. I am. This city is hopeless.

I’m not sure Ottawans are particularly unique in the Canadian context. Canadians are generally anti-city and all that entails (e.g walkability, density, etc). I spent the weekend in Oshawa. Came and went by train. Yikes.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

I’m not sure Ottawans are particularly unique in the Canadian context. Canadians are generally anti-city and all that entails (e.g walkability, density, etc). I spent the weekend in Oshawa. Came and went by train. Yikes.

The GTA, Montreal and Vancouver have pockets of good urbanism that one could reasonably craft a decent life in. There's a ton of people in those cities who get by without a car. That is evidence. Heck, even smaller cities like Halifax are better. The zones to do the same in Ottawa are small and don't look likely to grow much if the public spending priorities remain the same.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The GTA, Montreal and Vancouver have pockets of good urbanism that one could reasonably craft a decent life in. There's a ton of people in those cities who get by without a car. That is evidence. Heck, even smaller cities like Halifax are better. The zones to do the same in Ottawa are small and don't look likely to grow much if the public spending priorities remain the same.

I agree that there are pockets here and there. I mean, I live car free in Ottawa (not easily though). The cities you mention are definitely light years ahead of us (I’ve been to Halifax, might disagree on that one) but I feel like Canadians in general are fairly anti-city in the way we’re describing it.

Back to the topic at hand though, it’s incredibly depressing to see Sutcliffe’s “war on cars” campaign coming to fruition with the latest round of transit degradations. He’s an awful mayor in my opinion and is setting us back big time.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

Back to the topic at hand though, it’s incredibly depressing to see Sutcliffe’s “war on cars” campaign coming to fruition with the latest round of transit degradations. He’s an awful mayor in my opinion and is setting us back big time.

The sad part to me is how the numbnuts doesn't understand what this does to traffic in the city. These transit cuts will undo basically any gains for drivers from all those hundreds of millions in road widenings. As usual with this city, penny wise pound foolish.

They Downs-Thomson paradox is real. Travel times on driving and transit are always converging. If transit gets worse, more people will take up driving, until transit times look more attractive again. So all these cuts to transit virtually guarantee terrible traffic in the future.

[lrt's friend]

I have no sympathy when the political class is unable to sell an alternative. We continue to offer politicians that pretend that they can contain taxes without affecting services. This statement was made this week when we are proposing transit cuts. Why this isn't being contested amazes me. I guess the public and the press are idiots.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have no sympathy when the political class is unable to sell an alternative. We continue to offer politicians that pretend that they can contain taxes without affecting services. This statement was made this week when we are proposing transit cuts. Why this isn't being contested amazes me. I guess the public and the press are idiots.

Here's Catherine McKenney pointing out in a debate that Mark Sutcliffe had a hole in his budget.

https://x.com/ctvottawa/status/1580692938862256128?t=RmLYe4FXPnwppC1Tx42PmQ&s=19

We get the politicians ww deserve. And the people of this city very much deserve this incompetent leadership. They were warned. And they decided to pick up pennies in front of the fiscal steamroller anyway.

Who'd you vote for by the way? Trying to assuage your own guilt talking about the "political class"?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Not my work. Just posting the great work of others calling out this BS. Here's another summing all their spending on road expansions:



https://x.com/scorn_chip/status/1823439239284945203/photo/1

$800+M for 13 road expansions over a decade. Ask yourself, if that's value for money. Compared to every other priority. Especially given that they keep complaining how they are broke. Road expansions they can find money for. Transit they can't. That's a choice. Ottawa motorists deserve the traffic congestion that is coming.

I mean over a decade we are spending what $6 Billion+ on a train 3/4 of us won't use more than a few times a year? Busses also use roads. I imagine most of these roads are considered critical in whatever car obsessed suburb they are being built in.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I mean over a decade we are spending what $6 Billion+ on a train 3/4 of us won't use more than a few times a year? Busses also use roads. I imagine most of these roads are considered critical in whatever car obsessed suburb they are being built in.

You're demonstrating the same ignorance as Sutcliffe. Every transit rider is one less car in front of you in traffic. You should be damn grateful to every one of those riders.

I think some of you need a rerun of the 2009 transit strike so that you really begin to understand how many people are taken off the road by transit.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Here's Catherine McKenney pointing out in a debate that Mark Sutcliffe had a hole in his budget.

https://x.com/ctvottawa/status/1580692938862256128?t=RmLYe4FXPnwppC1Tx42PmQ&s=19

We get the politicians ww deserve. And the people of this city very much deserve this incompetent leadership. They were warned. And they decided to pick up pennies in front of the fiscal steamroller anyway.

Who'd you vote for by the way? Trying to assuage your own guilt talking about the "political class"?

I have nothing to be ashamed about in my voting choices. You like to make assumptions.

[stolenottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Not my work. Just posting the great work of others calling out this BS. Here's another summing all their spending on road expansions:



https://x.com/scorn_chip/status/1823439239284945203/photo/1

$800+M for 13 road expansions over a decade. Ask yourself, if that's value for money. Compared to every other priority. Especially given that they keep complaining how they are broke. Road expansions they can find money for. Transit they can't. That's a choice. Ottawa motorists deserve the traffic congestion that is coming.

Nvm, that's the airport pkwy expansion

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You're demonstrating the same ignorance as Sutcliffe. Every transit rider is one less car in front of you in traffic. You should be damn grateful to every one of those riders.

I think some of you need a rerun of the 2009 transit strike so that you really begin to understand how many people are taken off the road by transit.

And who was behind the 2009 transit disruption? Many voters welcomed the politicians who were behind it, and we saw that the rationale was foolish to say the least. It has been all downhill ever since then. Also, remember Larry O'Brien's stupid tax promises. It really started then.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yep. It's going to get worse and worse. Ironically, you know what might change the current trajectory? A change of government dropping 20 000 federal layoffs in Ottawa should help cut growth for a decade and temporarily stop the enshittification.

If you value walkability and good urbanism, in the long run, probably best to plan an exit. I am. This city is hopeless.

What's your baseline of comparison, though? Because the Ottawa I arrived in was a lot less walkable and urban than the current version.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

What's your baseline of comparison, though? Because the Ottawa I arrived in was a lot less walkable and urban than the current version.

Where do you see progress ? Certainly the market is more dense but those new residents seem to be counteracted by less tourists and suburbanites. Landsdowne has made the Glebe a larger destination and Westboro to Hintonburg has filled in a tiny bit but progress is really slow.

LRT phase 2 will help a lot but still leaves out a lot.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

What's your baseline of comparison, though? Because the Ottawa I arrived in was a lot less walkable and urban than the current version.

I compare to today. And to other cities in Canada. They ain't standing still.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I compare to today. And to other cities in Canada. They ain't standing still.

Despite all of our flaws, in my eyes Ottawa remains the 4th best city in Canada from an urbanism perspective behind VAN, MTL, TOR in that order.

Having lived in Toronto, I'll say they're only up there because their sheer population has forced them to adopt urbanist principles. But from a culture perspective, they're much like Ottawa. Middle to upper-middle class folks living downtown TO still idolize car ownership, bemoan cycling infrastructure, and consider the TTC a "last resort" transit option in favour of uber/lyft. I guess it's a slight step up from Ottawa where people would rather stay home altogether than use OC Transpo. And I'm not even sure half the population here knows how to ride a bike or has the fitness level to do so. But again, considering the population difference you'd expect a lot more from Toronto. The difference is that our problems here in Ottawa haven't become pronounced enough to realize the consequences of our decisions over the long term.

You mentioned Halifax earlier - couldn't be further from the truth. Using their transit system for a week will have you begging for OC Transpo. Calgary and Edmonton, culturally, will always be dominated by cars. Go visit their downtowns and it looks more like the southwestern US with all the parking garages and surface lots.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Despite all of our flaws, in my eyes Ottawa remains the 4th best city in Canada from an urbanism perspective behind VAN, MTL, TOR in that order.

Having lived in Toronto, I'll say they're only up there because their sheer population has forced them to adopt urbanist principles. But from a culture perspective, they're much like Ottawa. Middle to upper-middle class folks living downtown TO still idolize car ownership, bemoan cycling infrastructure, and consider the TTC a "last resort" transit option in favour of uber/lyft. I guess it's a slight step up from Ottawa where people would rather stay home altogether than use OC Transpo. And I'm not even sure half the population here knows how to ride a bike or has the fitness level to do so. But again, considering the population difference you'd expect a lot more from Toronto. The difference is that our problems here in Ottawa haven't become pronounced enough to realize the consequences of our decisions over the long term.

You mentioned Halifax earlier - couldn't be further from the truth. Using their transit system for a week will have you begging for OC Transpo. Calgary and Edmonton, culturally, will always be dominated by cars. Go visit their downtowns and it looks more like the southwestern US with all the parking garages and surface lots.

I agree with all of this. Ottawa compares itself too much to Toronto and Montreal. Montreal shows policy matters a lot as most of the Island has walkable areas which fade pretty quickly in Toronto. But for our size we are doing ok mostly thanks to Govt not providing parking but nevertheless we do have better transit use compared to Calgary and Edmonton our only real peers size wise.

There is no political appetite for a full European transformation despite some of the views here.