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  #1061  
Old Posted May 6, 2024, 10:46 PM
DTcrawler DTcrawler is offline
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Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
I also want more commercial, they seemed to think the Welldington development wouldn't really have commercial. I don't see a reason why not. They'll be empty and quiet until the remaining site is built up, but in future will provide active use at grade.
This has been a brewing worry of mine as this project unfolds. The key to making this a vibrant district is ground level commercial/retail space. The arena alone won't make the area lively - fans and concertgoers need bars and restaurants to frequent pre and post event. I thought that was the entire point of moving to a central location - to give people options in the immediate vicinity.

But by the looks of it, the NCC seems poised to make this yet another sleepy (but dense) neighbourhood. At the very least if the Sens get more land I have no doubt they'll take care of some of that themselves.
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  #1062  
Old Posted May 6, 2024, 11:55 PM
LRTeverywhere LRTeverywhere is offline
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This has been a brewing worry of mine as this project unfolds. The key to making this a vibrant district is ground level commercial/retail space. The arena alone won't make the area lively - fans and concertgoers need bars and restaurants to frequent pre and post event. I thought that was the entire point of moving to a central location - to give people options in the immediate vicinity.

But by the looks of it, the NCC seems poised to make this yet another sleepy (but dense) neighbourhood. At the very least if the Sens get more land I have no doubt they'll take care of some of that themselves.
There are plans for lots of retail but facing more so towards the aquaduct and Albert / arena districts. I believe their logic for not permitting it on Wellington is its supposed to be more so a ceromonial street with all the meuseums and monuments. That can certainingly be debated.
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  #1063  
Old Posted May 7, 2024, 3:28 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is online now
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There are plans for lots of retail but facing more so towards the aquaduct and Albert / arena districts. I believe their logic for not permitting it on Wellington is its supposed to be more so a ceromonial street with all the meuseums and monuments. That can certainingly be debated.
Yes, it's supposed to be a boring, sterile, wind-swept, inhumane "ceremonial street". It's awful thinking.
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  #1064  
Old Posted May 11, 2024, 4:56 PM
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I'd also prefer having a couple restaurants and a dépaneur at the Flats District. The entire area from the Flats District to the Chaudière Bridge will remain dead because of Bluesfest Park, the Museum and the Monuments Graveyard, so Zibi and LeBreton won't be tied together quite as well as we'd hoped.
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  #1065  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 1:11 PM
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Yes, it's supposed to be a boring, sterile, wind-swept, inhumane "ceremonial street". It's awful thinking.
I don't think its wrong thinking for this particular block of Wellington, from Chaudiere to Bayview. Its certainly the beginning of the parkway, which should be a controlled access boulevard for most of its length, as it is now.

Neighbourhood entry should be from the war museum intersection, and maybe one more intersection off of Booth? (not sure about Booth, and I'm also not sure about the War museum access, I think it was a wrong design to have that intersection on Wellington, but I digress.). But certainly once you're in the new Lebreton Condos, there's nothing stopping you from developing a nice area of shops and cafes at grade, rather than condo entrance lobbies and parking garage doors. Turning these buildings away from Wellington is the proper move, I think, with a green strip between the buildings and wellington. Certainly some patios, or even townhouse back yards built into the tower (like at Lansdowne) might be able to pop up there, but its a traffic sewer by design.
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  #1066  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
Neighbourhood entry should be from the war museum intersection, and maybe one more intersection off of Booth? (not sure about Booth, and I'm also not sure about the War museum access, I think it was a wrong design to have that intersection on Wellington, but I digress.). But certainly once you're in the new Lebreton Condos, there's nothing stopping you from developing a nice area of shops and cafes at grade, rather than condo entrance lobbies and parking garage doors. Turning these buildings away from Wellington is the proper move, I think, with a green strip between the buildings and wellington. Certainly some patios, or even townhouse back yards built into the tower (like at Lansdowne) might be able to pop up there, but its a traffic sewer by design.
But why should Wellington be a traffic sewer by design? I thought that we were moving away from a parkway and towards an urban boulevard. What better way to tie Lebreton into the War Museum park and Zibi than with commercial facing Wellington? Lots of room for bike lanes and patios facing the festival site.
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  #1067  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 3:07 PM
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But why should Wellington be a traffic sewer by design? I thought that we were moving away from a parkway and towards an urban boulevard. What better way to tie Lebreton into the War Museum park and Zibi than with commercial facing Wellington? Lots of room for bike lanes and patios facing the festival site.
Sure, that's right I think. However its a controlled access boulevard, right, so there shouldn't be any extra driveways or entry points from the neighbourhood to Wellington.

Imagine a patio facing bluesfest, that would be great, actually.
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  #1068  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
Sure, that's right I think. However its a controlled access boulevard, right, so there shouldn't be any extra driveways or entry points from the neighbourhood to Wellington.

Imagine a patio facing bluesfest, that would be great, actually.
For sure, we shouldn't have any driveways/parking garage entrances facing Wellington, but retail/restaurants shouldn't be an issue.
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  #1069  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 4:45 PM
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Sure, that's right I think. However its a controlled access boulevard, right, so there shouldn't be any extra driveways or entry points from the neighbourhood to Wellington.

Imagine a patio facing bluesfest, that would be great, actually.
Yeah, I could see a great opportunity for restaurants there, to capitalize on Bluesfest and link in to the cycling network.

The plan is a little high level, but there looks to be 3 streets running off Wellington, and potentially a crossing of Wellington at the far west end of the boulevard. There is also a reference to parking being located at the edge of the district to discourage cars driving to the interior of the site. Not sure if that means Wellington specifically.

You don't want Wellington to be a barrier, so it makes sense to create a streetscape that slows traffic to urban speeds through there. It's already a bit of a freeway going up the hill to downtown, which isn't ideal in that location.
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  #1070  
Old Posted May 24, 2024, 2:30 PM
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Student concepts for the Parks District.

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  #1071  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2024, 11:59 PM
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Senators president Cyril Leeder 'optimistic' club will make LeBreton Flats deal with NCC

Bruce Garrioch, Ottawa Citizen
Published Jun 13, 2024 • Last updated 4 hours ago • 4 minute read


The clock is ticking on a downtown arena at LeBreton Flats.

Speaking at the Ottawa Senators first annual spring summit with more than 1,500 season-ticket holders Wednesday night, club president Cyril Leeder told the crowd at the Canadian Tire Centre that the clock is now ticking to get a deal in place with the National Capital Commission.

Senators owner Michael Andlauer and his partners have been given an extension on a memorandum of understanding (MOU) until Sept. 20 by NCC chief executive officer Tobi Nussbaum to get a lease agreement in place.

Andlauer is bullish on being downtown because he’d also like to be closer to Gatineau. Leeder told the fans Wednesday night the Senators will play a Black-and-White intra-squad game in Gatineau during training camp.

“It’s a complicated and very complex project that’s going to take some time,” Leeder said. “I’d say not to expect a weekly or even monthly update because it’s going to be a bit of lumpy process.

“We do have an MOU with the NCC on a small parcel of land at LeBreton Flats. Sept. 20 is an important date because that’s the date when we need to get a certificate of agreement with the NCC or that deal expires. We’re working diligently and hard and trying to do everything we can to try to to get to that agreement.

“Again, I can’t tell you when we’ll be moving downtown, I can just tell you that we’re working very hard.”

Speaking to Postmedia afterwards, Leeder noted he’s “optimistic” that the organization will put pen to paper with the NCC.

“We’ve got the MOU and we’re working hard to make that happen. We’ve got until September to get a definitive agreement so we’ve got to get that done soon if we’re going to move that forward,” Leeder said.

“Yes, I’m an optimistic person, I’m not going to get into the details of the discussions, but I’m feeling there’s a willingness to make an agreement there. We’re trying.”

Can the deadline be extended?

“It could, but you need two sides to do that,” Leeder said. “But we’ve all agreed we’re going to try to get this done before September and we’re focused on that (timeline).”

Ottawa mayor Mark Sutcliffe publicly has offered up alternatives, which include 13.5 acres at Bayview Yards. Plus, city staff also have suggested that there may be sites available downtown where federal government buildings currently sit.

Leeder noted the club won’t move anytime in the next two or three years, which is why the Senators are making investments in the current building.

The organization has upgraded the lighting, is replacing the elevators in the off-season and upgrading the hockey facilities. The players will arrive back to a new “state-of-the-art” gym and the coaches will have new offices.

“The downtown arena, that’s going to take some time, that’s not going to happen overnight,” Leeder said. “There’s a group that would like us to be down in two or three years dropping the puck, it won’t happen that fast. This is a big project and we’re working hard at it.

“I can tell you I’ve spent a lot of my own personal time working on the arena. Erin Crowe, our CEO and CFO, heads up the project from our end. Myself and Chris Phillips are working closely with her to help move this thing along.”

While representatives of the two sides continue bi-weekly meetings to try to get a lease agreement in place, league sources told Postmedia in April there are issues to be settled in this negotiation, not the least of which is the size of the parcel of land.

The club also has concerns about parking around the arena because it’s difficult to rely on Ottawa’s troubled Light Rail Transit system for fans to get in and out of the arena. The Senators want people to be able to arrive and leave the rink in a timely fashion.

The NCC has set aside a seven-acre piece of land on Albert Street between Preston Street and City Centre, just west of Ottawa’s new central library, which is now under construction. The Senators won preferred bidder status to build a new rink in June 2022.

Nussbaum has noted publicly there is flexibility for more space and there has been some talk amongst developers in town that could as much as five or six more acres, which would allow the club to build an arena district.

He also noted after a meeting with the NCC’s board of directors in April that there is a Plan B in place if the Senators don’t make a deal at LeBreton.

“There’s no question that there will be a point at which we will either have a lease or not. I can’t say with 100% certainty when that is. Is it in September? I certainly hope so,” Nussbaum said. “There’s no ultimatum at this stage, just both sides working in good faith to get this done by the September deadline.”

There may not be an ultimatum, but it sure feels like we’re at the point where the Senators either make a deal with the NCC or the door on building a rink at LeBreton Flats will be closed completely.

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https://ottawacitizen.com/ottawa-senators/leeder-optimistic-club-will-make-lebreton-flats-deal
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  #1072  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2024, 6:07 PM
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The title says "optimistic", but the content does not. After all this time, I'm surprised the NCC hasn't made their final offer in terms of sizing up the parcel of land. I'd love to know what was offered. Can't imagine the Sens expect to get everything that remains. I think everything between Albert and Line 1/3 would be reasonable.
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  #1073  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2024, 7:28 PM
DTcrawler DTcrawler is offline
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Reading the article optimistically (and with a grain of salt considering who it's authored by) I'll say we're just in the midst of a firm but fair negotiation by two parties, neither of whom want to leave too much on the table. The NCC is a steward of public lands and public funds, and the Sens are a money-making entity who also want to maximize fan-experience. The biggest positive is that neither side has yet accused the other of acting in bad faith or stymying dialogue in any way. I'd say the only "distraction" has been Sutcliffe with his antics but even then you could argue he's just doing his due diligence as a representative of the City (not the NCC nor the Sens).

In a perfect world, my wish list would be for:

- the NCC to offer up more land and give the Sens the green light to build limited on-site parking (for STHs, players, staff, media, VIPs, etc) and any other ventures they see fit to be profitable (hotel, bars, etc.)

- the Sens ask for little to no public money (or negotiate a financing model to make it appear that way) to minimize public backlash and maximize goodwill towards the overall project.

- the City takes a collaborative stance with both parties and helps develop a comprehensive transportation strategy to ensure no stone is left unturned as far as making sure the new arena's location is a success from a logistical perspective. This involves making sure everyone from the city's traffic dept, OC Transpo, and OPS are aligned strategy-wise.
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  #1074  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2024, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DTcrawler View Post
Reading the article optimistically (and with a grain of salt considering who it's authored by) I'll say we're just in the midst of a firm but fair negotiation by two parties, neither of whom want to leave too much on the table. The NCC is a steward of public lands and public funds, and the Sens are a money-making entity who also want to maximize fan-experience. The biggest positive is that neither side has yet accused the other of acting in bad faith or stymying dialogue in any way. I'd say the only "distraction" has been Sutcliffe with his antics but even then you could argue he's just doing his due diligence as a representative of the City (not the NCC nor the Sens).

In a perfect world, my wish list would be for:

- the NCC to offer up more land and give the Sens the green light to build limited on-site parking (for STHs, players, staff, media, VIPs, etc) and any other ventures they see fit to be profitable (hotel, bars, etc.)

- the Sens ask for little to no public money (or negotiate a financing model to make it appear that way) to minimize public backlash and maximize goodwill towards the overall project.

- the City takes a collaborative stance with both parties and helps develop a comprehensive transportation strategy to ensure no stone is left unturned as far as making sure the new arena's location is a success from a logistical perspective. This involves making sure everyone from the city's traffic dept, OC Transpo, and OPS are aligned strategy-wise.
Seems fair. As I mentioned, giving them the land between Albert and Line 1/3 might be the best case scenario. They could easily build a one or two level parking garage underneath. If Lansdowne has 1k spots under 400k square feet, one level, Sens could fit roughly 3k spots on two levels in the proposed area. They could add a level or two if they want spots for the hotel, residential and office components. Maybe the City moves the Laurier Avenue garage (BMO) to Bayview, adding a few hundred spots.

In terms of public funding, I'd be ok with loans or loan guarantees. Add s ticket surcharge to pay back the City over time, maybe give them 10% of the naming rights. Make it easy on them to rezone. Maybe partner with the Sens for a tower and new community rink/Sensplex on the Tom Brown site.
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  #1075  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2024, 8:03 PM
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Would be nice to include a clause that if the team moves (or construction does not start in 5 years they lose it).
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  #1076  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2024, 7:19 PM
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Calgary Flames' new rink design has been revealed.

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https://skyrisecities.com/forum/threads/ottawa-lebreton-arena-populous.37258/
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  #1077  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2024, 9:57 PM
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Rink looks pretty cool. I think we have a very good opportunity here to build a best-in-class entertainment facility at the junction of two LRT lines, in a very walkable location for many and close to the CBD complete with all its services/attractions/parking....let's see how Ottawa can screw this up.
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  #1078  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2024, 10:47 PM
DTcrawler DTcrawler is offline
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Rink looks pretty cool. I think we have a very good opportunity here to build a best-in-class entertainment facility at the junction of two LRT lines, in a very walkable location for many and close to the CBD complete with all its services/attractions/parking....let's see how Ottawa can screw this up.
I sure hope we get positive news come Fall. But it's important to remember these deals are never straightforward, in Ottawa nor elsewhere.

Calgary's deal was certainly no walk in the park. They've been trying to get a new arena since 2009 and had to start from scratch in 2021 after the penultimate plan fell through weeks before construction was supposed to begin. They also got a sweetheart deal as the Flames are only paying $356M of the $1.2B total project cost. The rest will be paid by the city and the AB government with the city owning the facility.

We'd be hard pressed to get a similar deal, Calgary is a very business-friendly city in a pro-enterprise province. Meanwhile we have the political tension around Lansdowne 2.0 to contend with, the NCC's status as a federal entity, and the fact that our Premier couldn't care less about anything outside of the GTA (unlike AB's Premier Danielle Smith who is a raging Flames fan).
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  #1079  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2024, 1:36 PM
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The Sens should not get a deal as lucrative as the Flames, or even the Oilers. It's important to remember that the Sens own 70 acres of land in Kanata that can be utilized to fund the arena project.

I sure hope the City, and maybe even the Feds (through the NCC) and Province (though I doubt it) make some sort of contribution, but it shouldn't be anywhere near what the Flames got.
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  #1080  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2024, 4:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DTcrawler View Post
I sure hope we get positive news come Fall. But it's important to remember these deals are never straightforward, in Ottawa nor elsewhere.

Calgary's deal was certainly no walk in the park. They've been trying to get a new arena since 2009 and had to start from scratch in 2021 after the penultimate plan fell through weeks before construction was supposed to begin. They also got a sweetheart deal as the Flames are only paying $356M of the $1.2B total project cost. The rest will be paid by the city and the AB government with the city owning the facility.
All true, and I don't think that there is a scenario where the City owns the rink here, so that complicates things for us.

Excellent use of "penultimate" by the way.
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