General Infrastructure Discussion

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Then we'll need a much more efficient storage medium than lithium-ion. It's great for smartphones, less great for EVs, and terrible for large-scale grids.

I heard that water held at elevation is almost 100% power efficient...

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Again, Vancouver doesn't have much use for a backup electrical source anymore and battery mass storage doesn't fit that role anyway. Especially with renewable development in the interior, hydroelectric dams are looking more and more like our energy storage system by the year.

And if you're talking about Field, BC, that's more of a UPS than "battery storage". Field is connected to the grid by hundreds of kilometres of tree level low voltage power lines through the Rockies meaning one treefall takes out the entire town. Vancouver does not have that issue.

Field was 2013. BC Hydro have moved on, and are anticipating battery storage to be a much bigger part of the system, having said in 2021 that they were accelerating utility-scale battery projects.

Their 2023 call for clean electricity explicitly mentions new battery storage systems, and they already plan to add up to 50MW of additional utility-scale battery storage capacity to the grid as early as 2027 and up to 500MW of additional battery storage capacity by 2030. Although I don't think they've provided details regarding those storage upgrades, it suggests significant investment in the sector.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Then we'll need a much more efficient storage medium than lithium-ion. It's great for smartphones, less great for EVs, and terrible for large-scale grids.

Not so bad if you use old EV batteries (and supplying BC Hydro). And grid storage even using lithium-ion has been cost effective in some places. It's rapidly being replaced with cheaper or even more cost efficient technologies (like Iron flow).

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by madog222

^

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/0...nt-plant-cost/

One has to imagine the knives will be out for Dobrovolny (and Metro) now. Amazing there was so little discussion of the massive overrun on the sewage plant.

"Absolutely ridiculous": Metro Vancouver exec makes $700K a year and people are upset
Claire Fenton
Jun 17 2024, 2:29 pm

Pushback over a big paycheck for an executive at Metro Vancouver is getting a lot of attention and questions from taxpayers.

Jerry Dobrovo​​lny, Metro Vancouver’s chief administrative officer, earns a yearly salary of $451,949, according to a finance report set to go before the committee this week.

If you add $37,000 in expenses and $222,578 in taxable benefits, the total for 2023 comes to about $711,500. Those benefits include a one-time retroactive pay bump following a review, as well as health and pension benefits.

...Metro Vancouver’s spokesperson told Daily Hive that the salary is comparable to that of other organizations in terms of scope and experience.

“CAO compensation was determined by an independent assessment of the scope of CAO roles within local government, public sector, and crown corporations, across the region and across Canada. The assessment determined CAO compensation by averaging compensation of five organizations of similar scope and size to Metro Vancouver. These organizations are: BC Hydro, BC Ferries, TransLink, ICBC, and Toronto Transit Commission,” Amanda McCuaig, Metro Vancouver spokesperson, said in a statement Monday....

....Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, as a Member of Parliament and as the leader of the country, earns $400,000 in salary in 2024, not including expenses. Vancouver Mayor Ken Sim makes half of that, about $200,000 from 2023 numbers. However, Vancouver City Manager Paul Mochrie earned significantly more, with a salary of $365,000 last year....

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/metr...alary-pushback

[rickvug]

$451,949 is defensible, if slightly rich compared to $365,000 for the City of Vancouver CAO. Still less than what you could get in the private sector. The real political issue is that one time retroactive adjustment that shoots Dobrovo​​lny up around $700k. Not sure why the expenses should be counted at all if they are truly business related such as necessary travel.

[chowhou]

If Dobrovolny earned a salary of $451,949 but had $711,500 in taxable income, that means they should have paid $336,973 to the CRA in taxes meaning their after tax take home income was probably just $115k...

[chowhou]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/nort...pendent-review

Independent review to be conducted for beleaguered $3.9 billion North Shore sewage treatment plant

A day after BC Premier David Eby suggested an independent review should be carried out on the ballooning costs to complete the North Shore Wastewater Treatment Plant, the Metro Vancouver Regional District announced this afternoon that the analysis would be performed.

“I’ve expressed the provinces’ concern a few times now about resolving what drove the cost overruns at the North Shore Plant, and I think that the time has really come for Metro Vancouver to hire an auditor, independent of them, to dig into this and provide a report to everybody,” said Premier David Eby when asked during a press conference on Monday.

“But to ensure a full-scale review of that project, it’s high time for Metro Vancouver to bring an auditor to have a look at that… For Metro Vancouver, I think it would be very helpful for us to have an independent eye on what’s driven the cost overruns on that particular project to know what additional steps are required to ensure accountability of Metro Vancouver. If the officials at Metro Vancouver can’t ensure taxpayer accountability of the expenses incurred there, obviously the province will have to step in.”

[Jimbo604]

CBC news has a nice time line of the poo plant debacle, though it was published last week and doesn't have the very latest news for of the call from the province for an independent review (Jun 18th).

A timeline of Metro Vancouver's $3.86B wastewater treatment plant
New North Shore plant 4 years behind schedule with building costs well over original estimate
Chad Pawson · CBC News · Posted: Jun 15, 2024 5:00 AM PDT | Last Updated: June 15

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...lant-1.7235368

[Jimbo604]

Vancouve Sun has article:

Long waits for EV chargers may delay Vancouver's deadline for gas stations
Gas stations and parking lots in Vancouver face a $10,000 increase in business licence fees if they don't install EV charging.
Author of the article: Glenda Luymes Published Jun 21, 2024
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...elays-deadline

Reference City Council Report:
https://council.vancouver.ca/20240625/documents/r3.pdf

"In May 2022, Council approved changes to the Zoning and Development By-law and the Licence By-law to encourage the installation of EV chargers at gasoline stations and large commercial parking lots through business licence fees. As a result, a number of owners are proceeding to install publicly accessible EV chargers on their sites. However, several stakeholders in the process of installing EV charging have expressed concerns about challenges outside their control that are making it difficult to complete installations in time for 2025 licence renewals. In response to these concerns, this report recommends delaying enactment of the business licence changes from January 2025 to January 2026.

...Starting in January 2025, commercial parking lots (with at least 60 parking stalls) and gas stations that provide a specified amount of EV charging will continue to pay a relatively low annual business licence fee (currently about $340 for gas stations and $250 for auto parking lots). Gas stations and parking lots that do not install the specified amount of EV charging will be subject to a $10,000 annual business licence fee.

Business owners have encountered delays in completing the electrical work due to volume both with BC Hydro and City of Vancouver as well as supply chain issues for equipment procurement due to high demand for this equipment. In combination, these factors are resulting in wait times up to 18 months.

At present, there are 66 gas stations and 453 commercial parking lots (approximately 50% of which have at least 60 parking stalls) licensed to operate in Vancouver"

Summary:
- City trying to get EV chargers at all gas stations and parking lots of a certain size or larger
- Project likely delayed due to complexity involved with installing service [BC Hydro] and, with at least some irony, the city itself. We are familiar with project delays.
- A gas station closing is still a news story, and many freak out. However, there are still sixty-six operating gas stations in the City of Vancouver alone...

[MIPS]

Question:
How old is the buried water/sewer infrastructure around the East end of false creek? Running around 40 years now?

[madog222]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Question:
How old is the buried water/sewer infrastructure around the East end of false creek? Running around 40 years now?

They City's GIS map lists the install year for most segments of pipe, data is missing for some segments.

https://maps.vancouver.ca/vanmap-viewer/

The one in the area of the recent leak is from 1999.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by madog222

They City's GIS map lists the install year for most segments of pipe, data is missing for some segments.

https://maps.vancouver.ca/vanmap-viewer/

The one in the area of the recent leak is from 1999.

Not old by any stretch, but it's an area that has had lots of large scale construction, including deep parkades dug out, etc. I wonder if all of that nearby activity contributed to the failure. Not to mention various tie ins to the sewer line itself.

[officedweller]

BC Hydro to build $1 billion worth of Surrey substation upgrades for up to 158,000 new homes
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-h...ades-new-homes

[jollyburger]

Burst Vancouver sewage pipe still not repaired after 27 days

"Right now the time is being spent on the design of the bypass and the source of the parts.," LaClaire said.

But the bypass pipe will only be temporary. Once sewage has been diverted out of the broken pipe, LaClaire says the investigation into the failure can begin.

“It could be the pipe connection, it could be a manufacturing error from the company itself, it could be a combination of ground water, sediment and the dynamics of this area,” he said, adding that the tide impacts area sewage levels.

This leak happened just a few blocks away from one that happened in Olympic Village in May. Between six and eight inches of sewage spilled onto the streets and spewed into False Creek.

LaClaire says he’s not sure if the two are connecte7d.

"Everyone is kind of curious about that," he told CTV News.

"The fact that they happened within close proximity in location and time is also unusual."

Both of the pipes are only 25 years old, he says. The typical life span is 100 years.

Once the temporary bypass is installed next week, a lot of the equipment will be removed. But until the permanent pipe is installed, there will still be road closures along with the repair noise.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/burst-vancouve...days-1.6969658

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by officedweller

BC Hydro to build $1 billion worth of Surrey substation upgrades for up to 158,000 new homes
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-h...ades-new-homes

So it's all well and good for BC Hydro to put up $1 billion in capital costs to provide the infrastructure for new homes, but we still need CAC and DCC fees for new builds to support their infrastructure hmmm.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

So it's all well and good for BC Hydro to put up $1 billion in capital costs to provide the infrastructure for new homes, but we still need CAC and DCC fees for new builds to support their infrastructure hmmm.

In Surrey CACs (where density exceeds the zoning) help offset the impacts of growth and help fund new community facilities and services, such as:

Parks
Libraries
Cultural Facilities
Sports & Recreation Facilities
Fire & Police Facilities
Affordable Housing
Public Art
Undergrounding of Utilities

DCCs are used to meet growth-related infrastructure needs by funding:

Transportation: new roads and bridges, road widening, capacity improvements, signalization, and sidewalks and cycle tracks;

Water: new and upgraded water mains, new water pump stations and reservoirs;
Sewer: new trunk mains, new sanitary pump stations and sewer upgrades;

Drainage: stormwater ponds and pump stations, culvert upgrades and storm sewer upgrades; and,

Parks: acquiring parkland for parks and greenways and completing park improvements. This also includes acquiring green infrastructure network (GIN) lands

Developers also have had to pay for new or upgraded BC hydro connections that require system upgrades. "They must be completely paid for upfront by the customer that makes the request".

[Changing City]

...

[chowhou]

Hmm I think I must be misunderstanding you somewhere or missing something. Please inform me how this $1 billion to build new growth supporting infrastructure is being paid for by developers. Or is it from DCCs? I need help understanding.

Or, alternatively admit that CACs and DCCs are not needed and are just NIMBY policy to offload the cost of our society onto the young and newcomers. Come on, I know you can do it.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Hmm I think I must be misunderstanding you somewhere or missing something. Please inform me how this $1 billion to build new growth supporting infrastructure is being paid for by developers. Or is it from DCCs? I need help understanding.

Or, alternatively admit that CACs and DCCs are not needed and are just NIMBY policy to offload the cost of our society onto the young and newcomers. Come on, I know you can do it.

Surrey needs more facilities and infrastructure because they're adding more homes and people. If the population and housing didn't grow, they would only have to pay to upgrade the existing facilities as they needed to. Those costs could be covered by the Capital Plan, which is funded from property taxes.

Because they need extra facilities, they need more money. Have you seen Surrey's tax increases recently? In 2023 it was 12.5%, and this year it's another 7%.

When developers build condos for sale, they calculate how much they should buy a site for, based on the price per square foot they expect to sell for. That gives them an idea of how much revenue they can expect. Then they work out the costs of construction, soft costs like design, financing, legal costs etc. Then they include the costs of permits, DCCs, CACs and Hydro and sewer hookup fees. Then they add a profit margin - let's say 15%. Then they subtract the sum of all those total costs from the revenue. What's left is the residual land value - what they can afford to pay to buy the site.

Take out the DCCs and CACs, and the total cost to build goes down. So they can maybe pay more for the land, which means overall land values go up in that area (as assessed values are based on sales transactions), but they can also take a higher profit. In that case either Surrey's facilities become more overwhelmed, or the needed facilities are paid for by raising taxes even more. That means Surrey's residents are effectively subsidizing developers to make higher profits.

[chowhou]

You conveniently leave out the fact that as more developments become profitable it becomes viable to build developments that were at the cusp or below profitability increasing the supply of housing, but I know you don't believe in supply and demand so that's to be expected.

Let's see if you're at least consistent; Surely you must believe that BC Hydro is subsidizing developers to make higher profits by investing in infrastructure in Surrey not on the developer's dime, yes? Our BC Hydro rates could be lower if they weren't being used to subsidize greedy developers, right? C'mon, bite the bullet and say this is a bad thing for British Columbia!