Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II - Page 33

Changing City · #**641** Posted **Jul 5, 2024, 6:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamusmcduff

Fare evasion is really only an issue on rapid bases like the 99 isn't it? Since you can get on at the back. On regular busses you have to tap on in front of the driver. On the skytrain there is some piggybacking, but it's less common than on rapid busses because of the gates, and transit cops are far more common.

The switch to all door boarding, and a period with no fare collection during covid became a habit for some riders. And the routes that have articulated buses (which these days is a lot of routes) encourages rear door boarding. Those buses have card readers on the rear doors too. And anything through the DTES (14 and #16 especially, but also #4, #7, #19, #22) all have regularly freeriding passengers, often for a couple of stops. Many are quite polite, and ask the driver if it's OK to ride.

cganuelas1995 · #**642** Posted **Jul 5, 2024, 9:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Changing City

The switch to all door boarding, and a period with no fare collection during covid became a habit for some riders. And the routes that have articulated buses (which these days is a lot of routes) encourages rear door boarding. Those buses have card readers on the rear doors too. And anything through the DTES (14 and #16 especially, but also #4, #7, #19, #22) all have regularly freeriding passengers, often for a couple of stops. Many are quite polite, and ask the driver if it's OK to ride.

As someone who was formerly a broke teenager, I remember dropping what little change I had left on me into the farebox in Tsawwassen and telling the driver I was just going to Ladner

WarrenC12 · #**643** Posted **Jul 8, 2024, 4:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

I was once leaving Yaletown station through the gate and some girl tried pushing past me the opposite direction

I've had people push in behind me. Now I tap, wait a half second, then go through so it closes much closer behind me.

cganuelas1995 · #**644** Posted **Jul 8, 2024, 11:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I've had people push in behind me. Now I tap, wait a half second, then go through so it closes much closer behind me.

Should be turnstiles instead of motorized doors

cganuelas1995 · #**645** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 12:38 PM**

Would be nice if those faregates had an alarm whenever someone pushed through them

sweetnhappy · #**646** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 6:37 PM**

Would probably have a lot of false alarms. Might need some kind of CCTV with person/object recognition analytics – something akin to the toll plaza that existed for the Port Mann bridge but with speedier analysis and reporting.

chowhou · #**647** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 6:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetnhappy

Would probably have a lot of false alarms. Might need some kind of CCTV with person/object recognition analytics – something akin to the toll plaza that existed for the Port Mann bridge but with speedier analysis and reporting.

Now that I think about it, is there a particular reason why every fare gate in the system doesn't have a set of security cameras watching the gates? Sometimes that's all it takes...

Migrant_Coconut · #**648** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 7:47 PM**

Not a horrible idea, but I'm guessing it's a a lot harder to run a face through a database than a license plate... and then there's the legal issues over privacy.

jollyburger · #**649** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 8:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowhou

Now that I think about it, is there a particular reason why every fare gate in the system doesn't have a set of security cameras watching the gates? Sometimes that's all it takes...

Just increase the fine to $1000

cganuelas1995 · #**650** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 10:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetnhappy

Would probably have a lot of false alarms. Might need some kind of CCTV with person/object recognition analytics – something akin to the toll plaza that existed for the Port Mann bridge but with speedier analysis and reporting.

I think all you need is something that will detect force applied to the gate mechanism

CanSpice · #**651** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 10:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowhou

Now that I think about it, is there a particular reason why every fare gate in the system doesn't have a set of security cameras watching the gates? Sometimes that's all it takes...

What is a security camera supposed to do?

Migrant_Coconut · #**652** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 11:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanSpice

What is a security camera supposed to do?

Retroactively ID the perp, the same way you'd run a plate with a traffic cam... which, as mentioned, is ethically and legally dubious. This isn't the PRC.

sweetnhappy · #**653** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 11:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Not a horrible idea, but I'm guessing it's a a lot harder to run a face through a database than a license plate... and then there's the legal issues over privacy.

Wasn't implying any kind of facial recognition with my thought/idea. Just person/object detection so that it could count if the number of people going through the gates matches the number of taps. Top down cameras would likely suffice.

Migrant_Coconut · #**654** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 11:16 PM**

I mean, that's great for fare evasion statistics, but not so great for actual enforcement without some way to hard-lock the gates or penalize the suspect.

cganuelas1995 · #**655** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 11:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I mean, that's great for fare evasion statistics, but not so great for actual enforcement without some way to hard-lock the gates or penalize the suspect.

Full height fare gates comes to mind, can't go over, can't go under. Just gotta find a way to make it accessible to people in wheel chairs. The two people I've seen push through the gates were going through the wide ones

CanSpice · #**656** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 11:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Full height fare gates comes to mind, can't go over, can't go under. Just gotta find a way to make it accessible to people in wheel chairs. The two people I've seen push through the gates were going through the wide ones

People push through the standard fare gates just fine. Or they follow closely behind someone who's tapped through. And I'm willing to bet they can't make them lock because that would be a fire hazard. The gates probably have to be designed so that they can be pushed through relatively easily.

cganuelas1995 · #**657** Posted **Jul 10, 2024, 11:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanSpice

People push through the standard fare gates just fine. Or they follow closely behind someone who's tapped through. And I'm willing to bet they can't make them lock because that would be a fire hazard. The gates probably have to be designed so that they can be pushed through relatively easily.

Or interconnect them with the fire alarm system so that they open up when the alarm goes off, and maybe have the fire alarm go off when someone pushes through them.

Also, isn't there a one-way emergency exit gate along the glass partition?

chowhou · #**658** Posted **Jul 11, 2024, 12:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanSpice

What is a security camera supposed to do?

Sometimes just knowing you might be getting watched can help deter criminals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Also, isn't there a one-way emergency exit gate along the glass partition?

I was under the impression Skytrain stations also have fire exits.

Migrant_Coconut · #**659** Posted **Jul 11, 2024, 1:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowhou

Sometimes just knowing you might be getting watched can help deter criminals.

If that's the angle, maybe skip the cameras and just put up a cardboard cop sign that says "Stop! Fare Evasion Is A Crime!" Singapore loves those.

chowhou · #**660** Posted **Jul 11, 2024, 1:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

If that's the angle, maybe skip the cameras and just put up a cardboard cop sign that says "Stop! Fare Evasion Is A Crime!" Singapore loves those.

Maybe just signboards would be best. Cardboard cops are just as likely to be ignored as they are to be vandalized by the same people who fare evade. ACAB, remember.