Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by s211

If you want more fun, watch skytrain turnstiles. The number of young couples that go 2-for-1 .... it's depressing to see so many couples that mutually think theft is acceptable.

I've seen that many times with older couples.

My favourite one (from many years before the faregates) was seeing a couple being ticketed on the platform - while standing next to the huge widescreen tv they'd just bought. Uhm how can you afford to buy that and not bus fare?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I've seen that many times with older couples.

My favourite one (from many years before the faregates) was seeing a couple being ticketed on the platform - while standing next to the huge widescreen tv they'd just bought. Uhm how can you afford to buy that and not bus fare?

I took the Skytrain just the other day and a family of 4 adults (looked like husband + wife + mom + dad) all tapped out behind me on one card. It's pretty shameless and if it can be stamped out economically I have no problems with that.

[madog222]

The federal government announced Wednesday that the Lower Mainland’s transit provider is set to receive more than $825 million in funding .

…

In a statement to CityNews, TransLink says the money does not help solve its “funding gap” and was already forecast under a different name.

“The CCBF agreement, formerly known as the federal Gas Tax Fund, expired in March 2024, and this is a renewal of that agreement,” said Tina Lovgreen, TransLink’s senior manager of media relations.

TransLink says while this capital funding is important to help with things like replacing buses, it’s still projecting a shortage of over $600 million in operating funding annually starting at the end of 2025.

From Charlie Carey and Charles Brockman, CityNews https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/07/03/translink-canada-government-825-million-funding/

[Vantage]

Originally Posted by s211

If you want more fun, watch skytrain turnstiles. The number of young couples that go 2-for-1 .... it's depressing to see so many couples that mutually think theft is acceptable.

I once called out young couple who followed me through the gate at Coquitlam Central, "Can't you pay the fare like the rest of us?" They replied that their cards (both of them) weren't working. Sure...

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Vantage

I once called out young couple who followed me through the gate at Coquitlam Central, "Can't you pay the fare like the rest of us?" They replied that their cards (both of them) weren't working. Sure...

That's why they have a machine outside the gates for the cards

[cganuelas1995]

Yesterday I tried getting off a bus, I was sat at the front so I went to get off the front doors, and two guys standing in the bottleneck between the front door and the rest of the bus wouldn't move when I said "excuse me", one guy just stared at me.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Yesterday I tried getting off a bus, I was sat at the front so I went to get off the front doors, and two guys standing in the bottleneck between the front door and the rest of the bus wouldn't move when I said "excuse me", one guy just stared at me.

The rest of the bus was probably mostly empty as well? The peeps that board and immediately go stand in the rear door area blocking people from an easy exit really bug me.. Especially when the bus has lots of seats available.

Ron.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Yesterday, around 1pm. I sat with a clear view of the rear door.

Macdonald - 7 boarded, 2 tapped.
Yew - 5 boarded, 2 tapped.
Granville - 8 boarded, 3 tapped.

Funny the number of people that 'pretend' to tap.

It's actually much worse than I thought.

Ron.

Was on the 323 a few weeks ago. It was ridiculous seeing people barge into the rear door or get on without paying and then proceed to tail others through the faregate at Surrey Central. A lot appeared to be students (South Asian) which caught me completely offguard. I thought colleges/universities had Upasses?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Was on the 323 a few weeks ago. It was ridiculous seeing people barge into the rear door or get on without paying and then proceed to tail others through the faregate at Surrey Central. A lot appeared to be students (South Asian) which caught me completely offguard. I thought colleges/universities had Upasses?

To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a (wrong but understandable) culture among UPass holders that there's "no point tapping." After all, you truly already have paid, you have to put some extra effort into doing something, and you slow the process down ever so slightly.

I don't condone it, but I also don't think Translink or schools have really done the legwork to ensure that students tap in to busses with UPasses.

Fare evasion enforcement might just have to be like speed traps. Every so often once you think the problem is bad enough you bring out the enforcement and scare a few people into compliance.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Was on the 323 a few weeks ago. It was ridiculous seeing people barge into the rear door or get on without paying and then proceed to tail others through the faregate at Surrey Central. A lot appeared to be students (South Asian) which caught me completely offguard. I thought colleges/universities had Upasses?

The major colleges (SFU, Kwantlen, etc.) have U-Pass. The private colleges and 'Universities' that bring in overseas students for courses aren't part of the program.

[CanSpice]

Luckily TransLink said that alongside those $90-million in cost cutting measures, they'll also be increasing fare evasion enforcement across the system.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Luckily TransLink said that alongside those $90-million in cost cutting measures, they'll also be increasing fare evasion enforcement across the system.

I was always under the impression that fare evasion enforcement was generally revenue negative. I wonder if Translink believes it's gotten to the point where enforcement will be revenue positive?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I was always under the impression that fare evasion enforcement was generally revenue negative. I wonder if Translink believes it's gotten to the point where enforcement will be revenue positive?

Hiring additional staff to check fares might not pay for itself, but if they're using the Transit Police as the resource, it shouldn't have a negative impact unless they get tied up in paperwork.

Daily Hive reported in 2020 that TransLink data showed the number of fare evasion tickets issued to youth steadily decreased annually from 1,828 (7% of all tickets) in 2013 to 482 (3% of all tickets) in 2019. There were between 23,000 and 32,000 tickets issued every year from 2013 to 2019, with around 7,000 of those for misusing fare gates in 2018 and 2019 (which is a Provincial Violation).

On some routes the non-payment must be higher than on others - apparently, Transit Police officers carry Compass tickets and have the discretion to distribute them to individuals during their shift, usually for someone who is found fare evading and cannot afford the fare. They'd need a lot more tickets on the buses that run through the DTES if they want to keep that option in place, and attempt to check everyone's cards or tickets. And there wouldn't be much point in referring their non-payment of the $173 fine to ICBC either.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Changing City

apparently, Transit Police officers carry Compass tickets and have the discretion to distribute them to individuals during their shift, usually for someone who is found fare evading and cannot afford the fare. They'd need a lot more tickets on the buses that run through the DTES if they want to keep that option in place, and attempt to check everyone's cards or tickets. And there wouldn't be much point in referring their non-payment of the $173 fine to ICBC either.

What exactly is the rational for this? Since when was Translink a charity?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by chowhou

What exactly is the rational for this? Since when was Translink a charity?

It's to show a little compassion to people in a tough situation. Imagine a pregnant woman in labour or a person needing immediate medical attention.

It's only a problem if they get used excessively. I have no way of knowing if that might be the case, and as with all things one person's "excessive" will be another person's "perfectly reasonable". If you're angering people at both ends of the spectrum equally then you've probably got the balance about right.

[jollyburger]

It's not as cost negative when you get security guards handing out the tickets vs Transit Police. $36-38 an hour.

https://transitpolice.ca/careers/cso/

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

The rest of the bus was probably mostly empty as well? The peeps that board and immediately go stand in the rear door area blocking people from an easy exit really bug me.. Especially when the bus has lots of seats available.

Ron.

The bus was somewhat full but not packed. Both guys had enough room to move but were unresponsive, expect for the guy who stared at me

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I was always under the impression that fare evasion enforcement was generally revenue negative. I wonder if Translink believes it's gotten to the point where enforcement will be revenue positive?

I'm guessing that the actual act of fare enforcement is revenue negative in that the total amount of fines won't be enough to pay for the police's time, but the knock-on effect of "oh hey maybe I should actually pay my fare because there's more enforcement" will cause revenues to rise enough to offset enforcement costs?

[seamusmcduff]

Fare evasion is really only an issue on rapid bases like the 99 isn't it? Since you can get on at the back. On regular busses you have to tap on in front of the driver. On the skytrain there is some piggybacking, but it's less common than on rapid busses because of the gates, and transit cops are far more common.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I'm guessing that the actual act of fare enforcement is revenue negative in that the total amount of fines won't be enough to pay for the police's time, but the knock-on effect of "oh hey maybe I should actually pay my fare because there's more enforcement" will cause revenues to rise enough to offset enforcement costs?

They were doing more fare enforcement earlier on when that was the Transit Police's focus but I think they are dealing with more safety issues these days.

"In the first inception of transit police, we did a lot more fare checking than we do now," she says, adding that now they conduct fewer checks and issue fewer tickets than people would expect.

Indeed, the number of FIN's issued for failure to present proof of payment within a fare paid zone in 2016 was 23,443 compared to 3,955 in 2022.

"We also issue provincial violation tickets for pushing through the fare gates, following someone through, or jumping over/under," Steed says, of which there were 4,562 issued in 2022 compared to 13,990 in 2017, a year after the SkyTrain fare gates became operational.

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local...rain-vancouver-translink-transit-6429151