North Shore Updates

[whatnext]

What if we spent $15 million to renovate something we'll demolish just a few years alter.

TransLink's newly renovated Lonsdale Quay bus exchange to be demolished for housing development
Kenneth Chan
Jun 17 2024

Almost exactly four years ago, TransLink’s Lonsdale Quay bus exchange reopened following a lengthy reconstruction to improve its passenger amenities and circulation flow, and the ability to handle more and longer buses.

The 18-month construction project entailed rebuilding the bus loop island, improving accessibility for wheelchairs and strollers, and installing new concrete pavers, ceiling panels, lighting, digital wayfinding, and public art. Improvements were also made for the pedestrian crossing from the bus loop island to the SeaBus ferry terminal and the rest of Lonsdale Quay.

However, the major renovation investment of $14.7 million will be short lived, following the provincial government’s announcement today that the site will be demolished for a new major mixed-use transit-oriented development, with hundreds of units of housing as the primary use.....

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/tran...-redevelopment

[mcj]

What if we could predict the future?

[officedweller]

I think TVisforme's proposal of a 2nd floor bus terminal is a good one.

Escalators and elevator from grade is nothing new to transit riders.

It could largely be at the elevation of The Esplanade and make bus routing more direct with a driveway entrance off The Esplanade, while freeing up the pedestrian realm below closer to the water.

For comparison, GO Transit recently opened a 2nd level bus terminal at CIBC Square in Toronto (so exhaust ventilation can be addressed), and that one is worse because it includes a steep ramp up from grade.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Keeping in mind, of course, that a second-level bus deck would be heavier than a second-level pedestrian/retail deck, or nothing at all (e.g. madog's pitch). Does the advantage of Esplanade over Carrie Cates outweigh the additional cost and maintenance? We'll see; much of the recent BC government/TransLink planning has opted for cheaper, more conventional layouts.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Keeping in mind, of course, that a second-level bus deck would be heavier than a second-level pedestrian/retail deck, or nothing at all (e.g. madog's pitch). Does the advantage of Esplanade over Carrie Cates outweigh the additional cost and maintenance? We'll see; much of the recent BC government/TransLink planning has opted for cheaper, more conventional layouts.

Production Way-University shows that they're not anemic to the idea in principle, and the recent UBC bus exchange rebuild shows they're still interested in non-conventional layouts if it can be justified.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by mcj

What if we could predict the future?

What if we could just go back and search SSP threads from Sept 4 2017?

Originally Posted by cornholio

Correct me if I am wrong but was the Surrey Central office tower not originally built for ICBC to consolidate their offices (including moving from North Vancouver to Surrey)?
Ultimately that did not happen but I am positive that was the original plan a decade plus ago.


https://www.kamloopscity.com/icbc-sells-central-city/


https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/rep...beandmail.com&

The last article even states ICBC leased 350,000 square feet in the tower but then backed out in 2002. So ICBC moving is nothing new. 15 plus years ago they were already planning to move and put in a lot of work towards making a move a reality.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...postcount=1535

[Migrant_Coconut]

Fortunately, $14.7 million is chump change on a provincial scale - barely enough for half a dozen 40' trolleys. It's not like TransLink splurged half a billion on this.

Originally Posted by chowhou

... the recent UBC bus exchange rebuild shows they're still interested in non-conventional layouts if it can be justified.

True, though putting the building on the buses is a lot easier than putting the buses on the building.

[chowhou]

One has to wonder if $14.7 million for 7-8 years of life (ICBC isn't planning on fully vacating until May 2027, and I highly doubt demolition will actually begin that month) is worth it for the millions of passenger trips yearly.

Originally Posted by whatnext

What if we could just go back and search SSP threads from Sept 4 2017?

You probably did not think about this, but the Lonsdale Quay Bus Exchange renovation began in January of 2019, a couple of months before COVID completely changed the office landscape. They could not have factored in at the time that in 4 years the ICBC building would have half of its daily workforce gone.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

Some lines could possibly be tweaked to terminate at other SkyTrain stations, but many of the routes bringing passengers to the Quay from Lynn Valley and other corners of North Vancouver do double duty to provide local service in the lower levels. The 228, for example, provides local service on East 3rd to replace the 239, which was cancelled when the limited-stop R2 launched. The 249 and 255 do the same thing along West 3rd. The other issue is that, unless the future SkyTrain station is at the Quay, it would change what is now a direct connection (such as the 236 from Grouse Mountain to Lonsdale Quay) to a multi-stop route (236 to Capilano Mall, SkyTrain to 3rd/Lonsdale, walk or bus to the Quay).

Yeah those routes would need to be covered by some other service. Maybe you move the bus exchange equal distance between the SeaBus and the new Skytrain station

I'm also assuming long term the roads leading into Lonsdale will become even worse. Not sure if they keep all the bus priority lanes with an elevated Skytrain guideway.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by whatnext

What if we could just go back and search SSP threads from Sept 4 2017....

Odd, that post doesn't seem to mention that the province is eagerly waiting for ICBC to move so that they can demolish the building.

Originally Posted by chowhou

One has to wonder if $14.7 million for 7-8 years of life (ICBC isn't planning on fully vacating until May 2027, and I highly doubt demolition will actually begin that month) is worth it for the millions of passenger trips yearly....

Yes, brighter, safer layout, better able to handle the transit routes serving the area - while it's not as long a lifetime as originally intended, it's still a significant improvement for drivers and passengers alike.

[BaddieB]

Originally Posted by madog222

It can't be elevated along Esplanade, the street is narrower than Broadway.

Then reduce car lanes. A skytrain would move far more people. Transit should take priority, and it probably wouldn't be politically unfeasible considering its in the urban City of North Vancouver. Unless we want to pay billions more tunnelling it for a few cars.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Even if Esplanade was a viable option (forget about the width, Skytrain guideway pillars are impossible when there's a rail tunnel underneath), that approach gets you from the Second Narrows to Lonsdale Quay. What's the plan for westward expansion?

Did that guy block me or something?

[jollyburger]

NDP wanted to move ICBC to Surrey and the Liberals quashed it. The Liberals wanted to sell the North Van HQ and the NDP quashed it. Of course for different reasons but still good for a laugh.

[BaddieB]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Did that guy block me or something?

The single track of rail doesnt span underneath the entire 30 meter width of Esplanade. lol

As for westward expansion, the route continues on Forbes to 3rd.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by BaddieB

The single track of rail doesnt span underneath the entire 30 meter width of Esplanade. lol

As for westward expansion, the route continues on Forbes to 3rd.

Excavating around an existing tunnel is also a nightmare scenario, and Forbes is like >5% grade my man. It's not a feasible route.

[Migrant_Coconut]

You could cut through Mission 1 if you offer the Squamish a station and ask really, really nicely. Not happening otherwise - the major transit corridor is East 3rd, not Low Level, and the viaduct would crowd Esplanade on both sides.

[Jimbo604]

Is this the transit fantasy thread?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

Is this the transit fantasy thread?

I think when the province makes a big play to purchase transit-oriented land in proximity to an area slated for significant transit expansion, it's fair to speculate a bit on their intentions.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I think when the province makes a big play to purchase transit-oriented land in proximity to an area slated for significant transit expansion, it's fair to speculate a bit on their intentions.

The TOD is based around the seabus terminal, there is no rail rapid transit required.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by madog222

The TOD is based around the seabus terminal, there is no rail rapid transit required.

I don't understand why you rephrased what I said.