Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by lio45

I’m sure you’ll get it if you think about it for a few seconds…

Quebec is large enough on that map to have been purple rather than red.

(On the other hand, no subnational jurisdictions exist on it, so it’s defensible as is. Actually if you zoom on Flanders and the German part of Switzerland, it’s coherent with all of Canada being red.)

To be coherent, wouldn't Switzerland be left off? German speakers = 63%; French = 23%.

French Guiana isn't shaded. That's the first mistake that jumped out at me.

[lio45]

The coherent standard is “if only one of the five colors would apply, then the whole country is that color (instead of being blank), but if more than one of the five would apply, then the whole country is of the main color (instead of being divided)”. It’s why the Russian satellite countries are all the full Russian color, too, even in cases where most people speak something else: exact same situation as Switzerland. These ex-USSR local languages, and German, are at the same “not among the five” level, on this map.

French Guiana would be an actual mistake. Canada and Switzerland aren’t (arguably).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by harls

According to the language in this thread, seems to be right.

Tu préfères qu'on cause qu'en français ? Enfin toi je sais que ça ne te gênerait pas outre mesure, mais les autres...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The View of Anglophones by NB:

What's wrong with New Brunswick?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

To be coherent, wouldn't Switzerland be left off? German speakers = 63%; French = 23%.

French Guiana isn't shaded. That's the first mistake that jumped out at me.

That's the two I pointed out to them: Québec and French Guiana. They also forgot New Caledonia. Of course French Guiana and New Caledonia you could say that's because the author has a limited knowledge of geography and these are not super large or well known places, bu Québec, seriously?? Not to be surprised though, this is a typical view that I see often among non-Francophones: Canada is an Anglophone country, period. At most they think French is a curiosity in Québec a bit like in New Orleans, but few really realize how non-Anglophone Québec is.

[lio45]

Sure, but then if Quebec is purple then the eastern 2/3rds+ of Switzerland and northern 1/2 of Belgium should be white, and some of the Arab and Russian countries should likely be divided too.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Tu préfères qu'on cause qu'en français ? Enfin toi je sais que ça ne te gênerait pas outre mesure, mais les autres...

Les autres non plus!

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lio45

Sure, but then if Quebec is purple then the eastern 2/3rds+ of Switzerland and northern 1/2 of Belgium should be white, and some of the Arab and Russian countries should likely be divided too.

Well Russian isn't even an official language in most of those places and is not spoken by many under 30 in most of them. Meanwhile French is an official language in Canada and even in Red Deer it's present on every shelf and lots of signs. All of Canada should be in two colors.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lio45

The coherent standard is “if only one of the five colors would apply, then the whole country is that color (instead of being blank), but if more than one of the five would apply, then the whole country is of the main color (instead of being divided)”. It’s why the Russian satellite countries are all the full Russian color, too, even in cases where most people speak something else: exact same situation as Switzerland. These ex-USSR local languages, and German, are at the same “not among the five” level, on this map.

French Guiana would be an actual mistake. Canada and Switzerland aren’t (arguably).

The ex-Soviet states are aggressively trying to get away from Russian where they can. To the point that this is causing tension with Russia. But the shit disturber would have us believe (with some unsourced Twitter trash that it attributes to Anglophones) that Russian is some legit preference of theirs. Oh, and in the same breath it waxes poetically about how post colonial India is desperate to ditch English.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

Les autres non plus!

Même le New-Brunswickois grincheux ?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Well Russian isn't even an official language in most of those places and is not spoken by many under 30 in most of them.

Yeah, the Baltics colored as "Russian-speaking" was preposterous. Russian is only really used in Russia, Eastern Ukraine, Belarus, and northern Kazakhstan.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Oh, and in the same breath it waxes poetically about how post colonial India is desperate to ditch English.

The 2024 Indian elections were mostly conducted in Hindi, not English. I know you don't like it, but that's a fact.

Even Rahul Gandhi and his Italian mother are speaking Hindi now. Imagine that in the 1960s when Nehru was busy mimicking the British upper class English accent and demeanor!

• Video Link

In the space of 60 years, India has changed as much as Québec between 1920 and 1980 in terms of English dominance.

[kwoldtimer]

Mostly in Hindi in Hindi-speaking areas, I presume. Sonia Gandhi has spoken publicly in Hindi for decades. Nehru spoke Hindi and was PM when Hindi was made the (an?) official language.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The 2024 Indian elections were mostly conducted in Hindi, not English.

There's a big difference between "elections were mostly conducted in Hindi" and Indians are looking to ditch English, as you have asserted in the past. I know you don't like it, but that's a fact.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Yeah, the Baltics colored as "Russian-speaking" was preposterous.

And yet you posted this nonsense. Because that's what shit disturbing trolls do.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Yeah, the Baltics colored as "Russian-speaking" was preposterous. Russian is only really used in Russia, Eastern Ukraine, Belarus, and northern Kazakhstan.

I mean it's used a lot more in southern Kazakhstan or the Baltics than French is in Toronto but yes the map is garbage.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by lio45

Les autres non plus!

En effet. Il est probable que 99,9% des anglophones consultant ce forum ne lisent pas ce fil.

[lio45]

That map isn’t too bad as a rough indication of where you could likely get by with the mentioned language as a lingua franca, vs where you couldn’t. “Zone of influence”, basically.

In other words, for any color, if you’re an unilingual speaker of that language, you can at the very least, likely manage to travel or even live or do menial work everywhere within the zone of that color.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

There's a big difference between "elections were mostly conducted in Hindi" and Indians are looking to ditch English, as you have asserted in the past. I know you don't like it, but that's a fact.

You just don't understand the logic of this, which is not surprising as this lies at the heart of this entire thread, the cultural difference between Québec and ROC. The fact that English is evicted from its #1 position in the public sphere in Québec between 1920 and 1980, and in India between the 1960s and today, and replaced by French in Québec and Hindi in India as the dominant language in the public sphere, does not mean that people in Québec or India do not learn English as a foreign language at school and use it in the business world for international communication anymore. You seem to have a hard time distinguishing both. A country can be perfectly fine using English for international communication AND ditching it as the dominant domestic language.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Mostly in Hindi in Hindi-speaking areas, I presume. Sonia Gandhi has spoken publicly in Hindi for decades. Nehru spoke Hindi and was PM when Hindi was made the (an?) official language.

Hindi-speaking areas contain roughly half the population of India, and Hindi is used as a lingua franca in roughly 2/3 or India (northern and central India). And what's interesting is it has progressed as a lingua franca recently even in southern India where it was never used before. Many politicians from southern India now routinely speak publicly in Hindi (to a national audience, not a local one), which would have been unthinkable only 30 years ago. Hindi is also a lingua franca in Bangalore in southern India.

As for Nehru, of course he spoke Hindi (or probably "Hindustani" as he called it then), but his preferred language for important public speeches was English.

See his speech on Independence Day in 1947:

• Video Link

Or just after the assassination of Gandhi:

• Video Link

This would be unthinkable today. I cannot imagine today the prime minister of India after a traumatic event like the assassination of Gandhi making his speech in English to the nation. It would of course be Hindi.