O-Train Line 2/4 [Stage 2 | Greenboro to Limebank/Airport] | In Service

[zzptichka]

Are they still building a MUP from South Keys to the Airport?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

News update on OCTranspo.com

https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/articl...-train-south-extension-testing-training/

Thanks! Weird they didn't make it available from YouTube.

[OTSkyline]

Cool videos. My thoughts;

Shocking amount of single track, north of South Keys
Shocking amount of double track, south of South Keys
Dow's Lake looks very small for the potential ridership given the density in the area
Bowesville seems very large for the potential ridership given the density in the area

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Nice to see OC Transpo putting out something to hype-up the future train lines.

However, the Line 2 video did raise a question for me: Why did the south-bound train have a red signal, leaving Leitrim, until the north-bound train had arrived?

As far as I could see, there are two separate tracks all the way to Bowesville – not even a crossover until just before Limebank. I could understand the north-bound train getting a red signal, if it took a while to register that the south-bound train was clear of the single track north of Leitrim (and it should not take that long to register), but the entire line south of Leitrim is double-tracked. The lanes don’t interfere with each other.

So, is this a signal error? Or are they using the signals to time the trains? Other ideas?

That could be for any number of reasons. Centrally-controlled rail signals are restrictive by default, and maybe a route hadn't been entered yet? Perhaps the block ahead was occupied by another train? Maybe it is timing related?

I think it's more than likely that the signal changing as the Northbound train entered the station is just a coincidence. (After all, the signal at Bowseville was clear even though the next Northbound train hadn't approached yet). Plus it's clear that the operations seen in the video do not actually reflect what would happen in regular service.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Cool videos. My thoughts;

Shocking amount of single track, north of South Keys
Shocking amount of double track, south of South Keys
Dow's Lake looks very small for the potential ridership given the density in the area
Bowesville seems very large for the potential ridership given the density in the area

Agreed on all counts. That's another place they could have re-allocated funds; remove some of the double tracking in the south in favour of Walkley.

Dow's Lake is also grossly underbuilt. We knew about the TOD, existing and proposed, in the immediate area. We knew the new Civic Hospital would be built across the street. We'll either maintain this dangerously small station when the Civic opens or have to spend exponentially more money and cause further disruption (another multi year shut down?), to upgrade it.

The entire Stage 2 South was poorly planned. Priorities were not well established. We’ll pay for this over the next 30 years.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Won't suprise me if it's not ready for yet another start of a school year. Heck, wouldn't suprise me if we get anotehr full school year with no service.

August/September is still in play, but a lot has to go right over the coming months for that to be achieved. There are still many deficiencies that have to be resolved before launch. Last I heard, they were still working to resolve issues with the signalling system. Trial running can't start until they do. There are also many deficiencies at the stations that can impact substantial completion and RSA. This is why I was saying months ago that a Spring launch was absolutely not happening.

The good thing is the builder seems eager to get major deficiencies resolved so they can cut their subs loose, so hopefully things move quickly.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

August/September is still in play, but a lot has to go right over the coming months for that to be achieved. There are still many deficiencies that have to be resolved before launch. Last I heard, they were still working to resolve issues with the signalling system. Trial running can't start until they do. There are also many deficiencies at the stations that can impact substantial completion and RSA. This is why I was saying months ago that a Spring launch was absolutely not happening.

The good thing is the builder seems eager to get major deficiencies resolved so they can cut their subs loose, so hopefully things move quickly.

Certainly hope so. Just wish TNext had that sense of urgency far earlier.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

August/September is still in play, but a lot has to go right over the coming months for that to be achieved. There are still many deficiencies that have to be resolved before launch. Last I heard, they were still working to resolve issues with the signalling system. Trial running can't start until they do. There are also many deficiencies at the stations that can impact substantial completion and RSA. This is why I was saying months ago that a Spring launch was absolutely not happening.

The good thing is the builder seems eager to get major deficiencies resolved so they can cut their subs loose, so hopefully things move quickly.

I noticed they've started demobilising at the site beside Uplands station, so it seems like they are definitely trying to wrap things up. The cynic in me also wonders if they might be slow walking towards the finish line. Given the track record of rail projects across the country these days, once this line starts going we'll hit the inevitable triangular wheels/doors falling off/engines burning out or whatever horror that will go wrong. If they can play schedule chicken and make it look like the city pushed them to open before they were ready it will help in the inevitable lawsuits to come.

[lrt's friend]

I only counted six trains on Line 2 in the video (including the train that we are filming from), no trains passing between Gladstone and South Keys. Only one shelter at Greenboro. Since Greenboro is a fare paid zone, the transfer to/from buses will be more simple than at South Keys. Of course, South Keys is for the more important airport passengers, even if they will be miniscule in numbers.

Has anybody considered that airport trips require that 18 minutes be allocated for transfer wait times (you must allocate the full 12 minutes at Bayview because you just don't know and yesterday they were suggesting a 6 minute wait at South Keys), compared to the old 97 that took only 25 minutes between the airport and downtown with no transfer wait times. We are making excellent progress in making transit faster.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Are they still building a MUP from South Keys to the Airport?

Was that ever part of the plan?

[sseguin]

Exploring the new Albion Yard MSF: Inside the Maintenance Centre of O-Train Lines 2 and 4

This in-depth video offers a behind-the-scenes look at the cutting-edge facility that services the Stadler FLIRT and Alstom Coradia LINT train fleets, crucial for the seamless operation of these lines. From routine maintenance to advanced wheel machining, Albion Yard is equipped with everything needed to maintain and clean the fleet.

• Video Link

[sseguin]

A First Look at South Keys Station: The Interchange of O-Train Line 2 and Line 4

On May 16, 2024, Rail Fans Canada got the opportunity to check out the progress of Stage 2 South at one of its most important stations: South Keys. In this exclusive visit, join us as we explore the new station, learn more about the line and its operations, as well as observe the ongoing testing activities from the platform level.

• Video Link

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by sseguin

A First Look at South Keys Station: The Interchange of O-Train Line 2 and Line 4

On May 16, 2024, Rail Fans Canada got the opportunity to check out the progress of Stage 2 South at one of its most important stations: South Keys. In this exclusive visit, join us as we explore the new station, learn more about the line and its operations, as well as observe the ongoing testing activities from the platform level.

• Video Link

Tbh, the line 2 stations came out much better in reality than I was expecting from the renderings. They aren't quite as elaborate as Line 1, but still mimic the style pretty well. Of course the ones that were repurposed like Dows Lake and Carleton are the same as before except with somewhat nicer shelters and platform.

The real station that was short sighted was Bayview when they built line 1. It should have been easy to plan out that at some point a second track would be needed for Line 2, but instead all they could do is the awkward setup they now have

[lrt's friend]

I would rather have focused our investment on service quality rather than fancy-dancy stations. Barebone stations with shelters is all that we needed as was the case with the original O-Train. Service quality is what drives ridership.

[DTcrawler]

Personally I think the stations are already as barebones as can be. A couple of bus shelters to protect passengers from the elements while the rest of the platform gets blasted with rain, snow, sleet and whatever else we experience as part of Ottawa's weather. Line 1 already has it bad enough with salt-encrusted, slushy platforms during the winter and Line 2/4 stations will be even worse, with less areas protected by overhangs and longer wait times for trains.

Even at stations with almost complete canopy coverage of the platform, like South Keys, the canopy was constructed in such a manner that it will do next to nothing to protect passengers who are waiting on the platform.

When the line opens, I suspect we'll see a lot more of what we used to see at Carleton station pre-closure, where the limited bus-shelter space was packed to the brim and remaining passengers were forced to wait in the concourse area just before or after the fare gates. It's just such a sad state of affairs when you look at what is deemed an acceptable level of amenities provided for passengers. It's no wonder we have ridiculous looking commuters wearing snow pants and ski masks just to go to work in this city.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Personally I think the stations are already as barebones as can be. A couple of bus shelters to protect passengers from the elements while the rest of the platform gets blasted with rain, snow, sleet and whatever else we experience as part of Ottawa's weather. Line 1 already has it bad enough with salt-encrusted, slushy platforms during the winter and Line 2/4 stations will be even worse, with less areas protected by overhangs and longer wait times for trains.

Even at stations with almost complete canopy coverage of the platform, like South Keys, the canopy was constructed in such a manner that it will do next to nothing to protect passengers who are waiting on the platform.

When the line opens, I suspect we'll see a lot more of what we used to see at Carleton station pre-closure, where the limited bus-shelter space was packed to the brim and remaining passengers were forced to wait in the concourse area just before or after the fare gates. It's just such a sad state of affairs when you look at what is deemed an acceptable level of amenities provided for passengers. It's no wonder we have ridiculous looking commuters wearing snow pants and ski masks just to go to work in this city.

I hear you. Go to the Helsinki video to see how they designed a major bus/train interchange. It makes Hurdman look like a joke.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I hear you. Go to the Helsinki video to see how they designed a major bus/train interchange. It makes Hurdman look like a joke.

I'm not surprised. I also don't doubt that the people who designed Hurdman and other stations could've done a much better job with a) more money, and b) stronger political and public appetite for better transit amenities. Mostly reason "a".

At the end of the day, we have a pretty concrete and indisputable reason as to why transit in Ottawa falls short of its potential. It's not a secret. And until that gets solved, pretty much every project we undertake will leave lots to be desired. It's the unfortunate reality.

[J.OT13]

I think the stations are generaly a decent balance between bare bones and overbuilt (see REM and any Toronto Subway station from the last few decades). I think I would have traded the swooping roof lines for boring full coverage flat roofs though.

For Hurdman, I don't think they needed more money, they just needed to better align the guideway to avoid the curves and build the loop around the station instead of off-set. These measures might even have saved enough money for a proper semi enclosed concourse with benches and next bus screens.

Bayview is a mess. How did they start with a blank slate and come up with that? It's a terrrible layout no matter what we do next (leave it a terminus or extend to Gatineau).

Line 2 stations are all pretty bare bones other than maybe South Keys and Airport, with long platforms and a few bus shelters. Entrances for the new stations are a little above average. And that's fine. What's not fine is the minute improvments to what may be some of the busiest stations on the system (at least on the Line), Dow's and Carleton.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Agreed on all counts. That's another place they could have re-allocated funds; remove some of the double tracking in the south in favour of Walkley.

Dow's Lake is also grossly underbuilt. We knew about the TOD, existing and proposed, in the immediate area. We knew the new Civic Hospital would be built across the street. We'll either maintain this dangerously small station when the Civic opens or have to spend exponentially more money and cause further disruption (another multi year shut down?), to upgrade it.

The entire Stage 2 South was poorly planned. Priorities were not well established. We’ll pay for this over the next 30 years.

I will also insist, if we do have to do another shutdown to do something like expand Civic/Carling, double-track, electrify, extend to Hull, that adding an infill station at Somerset should be part of the package.

Yes, it's close to Bayview and Corso di Gladstone. Big deal. There are full-— metros in this world that have stations that close, we can do the same for a very light metro and add better connectivity to a major urban bus axis and the surrounding neighbourhood.

And it doesn't have to be fancy and big.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I will also insist, if we do have to do another shutdown to do something like expand Civic/Carling, double-track, electrify, extend to Hull, that adding an infill station at Somerset should be part of the package.

Yes, it's close to Bayview and Corso di Gladstone. Big deal. There are full-— metros in this world that have stations that close, we can do the same for a very light metro and add better connectivity to a major urban bus axis and the surrounding neighbourhood.

And it doesn't have to be fancy and big.

The big disel trains are slow to get in and out of stations, so I'm not sure I'd go as far as building a Somerset Station. If it was electric, I'd be more open to the idea.

Something that could be done to bridge the gap a little bit would be building a secon entrance at the north end of the Gladstone Station platform.