Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

How much would on-time performance improve it we did all-door boarding on every bus?

I'm guessing that the majority of the delays are caused by being stuck in traffic and not by the speed at which people get on and off the bus.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I'm guessing that the majority of the delays are caused by being stuck in traffic and not by the speed at which people get on and off the bus.

Not to mention that it really only would matter on busy routes at busy stops, where it mostly happens already.

[madog222]

Translink has a RFI up for the new trolley bus order, it's a huge increase over the previously announced 1 for 1 replacement procurement. Surely this means they plan for a major expansion of the trolley overhead network.
Up to 308 40' and 204 60' trolleys.

TransLink is seeking proposals for the design, production, supply and delivery of one (1) pilot and up to one hundred-six (106) standard 40-foot electric trolley buses; all as outlined in the Technical Specification and as more fully described in the RFP.
TransLink is also seeking pricing and related information for the following Optional Works;
• Option 1 - Up to two hundred one (201) standard 40-foot electric trolley buses; and
• Option 2 - One (1) pilot 60-foot articulated electric trolley bus and up to two hundred three (203) 60-foot articulated trolley buses.

https://discovery.ariba.com/rfx/18531806

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by madog222

Translink's RFP is up for the new trolley busses, it's a huge increase over the previously announced 1 for 1 procurement. Surely this means they plan for a major expansion of the trolley overhead network.
Up to 308 40' and 204 60' trolleys.

https://discovery.ariba.com/rfx/18531806

I've heard rumours that the New Flyer electric busses are completely trash products, while the trolley busses are tried and true. If this is a signal that the trolley network is expanding I'd be extremely happy to hear that. Direct electricity feed is greener and more efficient than battery electric busses. I hate to say I-told-you-so to some here but...

[madog222]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I've heard rumours that the New Flyer electric busses are completely trash products, while the trolley busses are tried and true. If this is a signal that the trolley network is expanding I'd be extremely happy to hear that. Direct electricity feed is greener and more efficient than battery electric busses. I hate to say I-told-you-so to some here but...

Yes anything new is going to have teething problems. I do wonder if any of the European manufacturers will try to challenge NF for this. There was the Solaris demo last year but that was purely to test the in motion charging capability.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by madog222

Translink has a RFI up for the new trolley bus order, it's a huge increase over the previously announced 1 for 1 replacement procurement. Surely this means they plan for a major expansion of the trolley overhead network.
Up to 308 40' and 204 60' trolleys.

https://discovery.ariba.com/rfx/18531806

The existing fleet is around 260, so the 'up to' 308 would allow a modest
expansion of service.

TransLink already said in July last year that trolley buses could potentially be used as the dedicated vehicles for RapidBus or the future Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) routes.

Ralf Nielsen from TransLink was reported as saying “It poses a unique opportunity when we look at either RapidBus or BRT where we have dedicated rights of way, where putting in new overhead lines are not as difficult as putting it through multiple jurisdictions in the region”.

I'm wonder if that would mean parallel overhead wires for rapid buses and local buses on routes like Hastings?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I've heard rumours that the New Flyer electric busses are completely trash products, while the trolley busses are tried and true. If this is a signal that the trolley network is expanding I'd be extremely happy to hear that. Direct electricity feed is greener and more efficient than battery electric busses. I hate to say I-told-you-so to some here but...

TransLink bought Nova battery electric buses for the No.100 route. BC Transit bought New Flyer battery electric buses, but haven't taken delivery yet.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Changing City

TransLink bought Nova battery electric buses for the No.100 route. BC Transit bought New Flyer battery electric buses, but haven't taken delivery yet.

They do have two 2019 XE40 as part of a demo trial.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The existing fleet is around 260, so the 'up to' 308 would allow a modest
expansion of service.

But it's 510 in total with all the options? Excluding the pilot orders.

106 40-foot

Option 1)
Additional 201 40-foot

Option 2)
Additional 203 60-foot

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

i still think trolley is better than battery. the economies of scale of regen-braking going back into the DC network, they easily last 20yrs, they work well, you dont need to worry about having so much power at the end stops, theres no weird mechanical arm thing to charge the bus. if that breaks, how do you charge the bus now? etc.

downsides are the costs to expand & maintenance of all the overhead wires. i do like the express lines for the hastings bus, and wish that existed on 41st for that rapid bus.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

How much would on-time performance improve it we did all-door boarding on every bus?

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I'm guessing that the majority of the delays are caused by being stuck in traffic and not by the speed at which people get on and off the bus.

I think that what CanSpice says is valid, although all-door boarding expedites things too, by shortening line-ups for busses. Most of the busses in Vancouver seem to have that now. Busses in Paris did, too.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

But it's 510 in total with all the options? Excluding the pilot orders.

106 40-foot

Option 1)
Additional 201 40-foot

Option 2)
Additional 203 60-foot

It depends what they mean when they say option 1 and option 2. It could mean that they're looking at getting 106 40-foot trolleys, and then either 201 more (option 1) or 203 60-foot buses (option 2). But if they're going to 510 in total, then that would suggest they're considering what they said last year, and putting trolleys on the rapid bus routes.

As they're electrifying the rest of the fleet, they could presumably run battery local buses and trolley rapid and express, on the same street. I can't get my head around running rapid trolley buses and local trolley buses on the same street - they would seem to be incompatible, although maybe I'm missing some obvious way of having them both work efficiently.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by madog222

They do have two 2019 XE40 as part of a demo trial.

Yes, they bought two Nova buses, and two New Flyers which went into service in 2019, They have ordered 15 more for the #100 route, and they bought Novas. So it appears they agree that the battery New Flyers aren't great, at least when compared to the Novas. That isn't a reason to add extra New Flyer trolleys (or whoever wins the contract), because the battery buses they're currently buying aren't from New Flyer.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Changing City

...TransLink already said in July last year that trolley buses could potentially be used as the dedicated vehicles for RapidBus or the future Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) routes...

Bring back the #34 Hastings Express!!!


(Photo from The Buzzer)

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Bring back the #34 Hastings Express!!!

Brilliant! So it is theoretically possible to run express trolleys on one line, and local on another, and the express can pass the local and still reach the curb for loading/unloading. If the local comes up behind the express, presumably it has to wait (but that's true today too.)

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Brilliant! So it is theoretically possible to run express trolleys on one line, and local on another, and the express can pass the local and still reach the curb for loading/unloading.

Actually, no - the 34 Hastings Express bus was literally an express bus. It made no stops between Kootenay Loop and Main St, precisely because the express wires were too far from the curb. So it wasn't really the equivalent of our modern limited-stop RapidBus routes.

I wonder if it would be possible to rig express wires that ran closer to the curb in order to provide a limited-stop trolley service? There might be issues with uneven wear of the carbon pick-up shoes if the trolley ran for long distances without being directly under the overhead.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Actually, no - the 34 Hastings Express bus was literally an express bus. It made no stops between Kootenay Loop and Main St, precisely because the express wires were too far from the curb. So it wasn't really the equivalent of our modern limited-stop RapidBus routes.

I wonder if it would be possible to rig express wires that ran closer to the curb in order to provide a limited-stop trolley service? There might be issues with uneven wear of the carbon pick-up shoes if the trolley ran for long distances without being directly under the overhead.

Thanks. I guess TransLink are wondering too. Presumably any local service on a parallel wire closer to the centre of the road would have to move across, out of the way of the RapidBus, when it came along, so it might delay the faster service when traffic is heavy. But the current diesel RapidBuses have to move over to pass local buses, so it wouldn't be that different to the current situation.

[NewfBC]

Mexico City is all in on trolleys.. including BRT

https://www.sustainable-bus.com/trolleybus-tramway/mexico-city-trolleybus-network-brt/

Mostly Yutong buses from China.

More..
https://www.urban-transport-magazine.com...and-cableway-in-mexico-city-the-new-ste/
https://bus-news.com/electric-trolleybus-corridor-to-connect-mexico-city-and-the-state-of-mexico/


Ron.

[jollyburger]

Not sure how practical it would be on how buses would know to disconnect but if one of the two used in-motion charging/automated reconnect they could bypass them while using a single set of wires?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Thanks. I guess TransLink are wondering too. Presumably any local service on a parallel wire closer to the centre of the road would have to move across, out of the way of the RapidBus, when it came along, so it might delay the faster service when traffic is heavy. But the current diesel RapidBuses have to move over to pass local buses, so it wouldn't be that different to the current situation.

If you squint your eye and look down the length of the street at the overhead trolley wires, you can spot where the bus stops are because the wires are hung closer to the curb at those locations. I imagine you could do something similar with wires for a limited-stop service, moving them closer to the curb at transfer stops so that the poles could reach.

I've noticed that the current generation of trolleys seem to have a much superior rigging system for the poles compared to the older Brill and Flyer coaches - it's really quite rare to see any of the New Flyer trolleys dewire compared to the old days. I was able to find an example of one on YouTube, but upon a closer inspection I suspect that there was a missing insulator on the crossover that caused it.