Winnipeg | Osborne Village & Fort Rouge | Developments & Discussions

[WinCitySparky]

Originally Posted by WildCake

If every storefront and commercial property in Osborne was leased, OV was a very lively place every day of the week, and it was a huge battle for new businesses to get a spot to set up shop, then I would entertain the merit of removing Starbucks and other major chain restaurants (BK, A&W) from there.

But right now I'm not celebrating the loss of another business in OV when there are already plenty of leasing opportunities, with probably a handful of businesses barely scraping by and are one rent hike/security incident away from closing shop

I see your point

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by xubiqtss

Very unfortunate considering it's a well-used coffee shop and no incidents have actually taken place there.

Feels like a cynical move coming from Starbucks corporate. More of an image thing than anything else. Like my goodness there are cafes in far sketchier areas of Winnipeg and they don't just shutter...

I mean yeah, the actual places these incidents happened - Shoppers, the liquor mart and the Burger King - are all staying open. Starbucks and a number of other companies have been doing this in a lot of US cities for a while now and they ARE a company built on over-expansion, seems like this is partly just a way to close less profitable stores while placing the blame on something other than performance. OV starbucks is busy but so are all Starbucks, and it's small and probably has high rent. I'm sure they get better margins in bigger, newer suburban stores and they seem to be shifting toward that as a company.

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

^And everywhere else.

This is the thing that's a little odd about it. I definitely sympathize with the staff and the issues they're dealing with in the area. But it's not at all unique these days. I know someone in law enforcement who said they'd never let their kids work retail because getting threatened with bear spray by shoplifters is just a regular thing now.

Originally Posted by WildCake

If every storefront and commercial property in Osborne was leased, OV was a very lively place every day of the week, and it was a huge battle for new businesses to get a spot to set up shop, then I would entertain the merit of removing Starbucks and other major chain restaurants (BK, A&W) from there.

These are kind of at odds though. If CRUs are in really high demand then it ends up only being the big chains that can afford them. Lower demand and lower rent opens the door for mom n' pop places. Half the complaints about OV these days are that it's lost its bohemian character, the other half are that it's too gritty and sketchy. It's a neighbourhood caught in an uncomfortable middle ground between being too sanitized and not sanitized enough.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by Atrial78

Does Osborne Village have a police station? The intersection of Osborne & River just seems like a prime spot for a small output with a 24/7 presence.

if you talk to the well educated "experts", police are not what's required, social services to intervene is what's required.

my fed up, unsympathetic brain feels 1 way trip to a remote Artic island solves much of this

[bon_vivant]

Not surprised that Starbucks is fleeing the village. They're never truly invested in any community they operate in. However, it's not hard to imagine that a coffee shop has to put up with more "undesirables" than other establishments.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

if you talk to the well educated "experts", police are not what's required, social services to intervene is what's required.

my fed up, unsympathetic brain feels 1 way trip to a remote Artic island solves much of this

I mean the police HQ in the exchange and then downtown never did much for those areas. That corner by the library bus stop is so bad and it's literally across the street from the HQ. Back in December somebody was stabbed to death on Graham, right across the street in the middle of the day. They didn't even make it there to arrest him on the scene, they picked him up 3 days later.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10179482/winnipeg-graham-ave-stabbing-arrest/

Policing is part of the equation but it's pretty clear that policing on its own won't change this. The chief himself has said as much multiple times.

Originally Posted by bon_vivant

Not surprised that Starbucks is fleeing the village. They're never truly invested in any community they operate in. However, it's not hard to imagine that a coffee shop has to put up with more "undesirables" than other establishments.

Yeah I would like to think that independent business owners are more likely to show some initiative and leadership in the community and actually work towards solutions rather than just pulling up and leaving, although the business community in general is pretty disappointing that way.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

if you talk to the well educated "experts", police are not what's required, social services to intervene is what's required.

my fed up, unsympathetic brain feels 1 way trip to a remote Artic island solves much of this

with Augustine's United Church cemented as the only soup kitchen/drop-in centre/shelter south of the Assiniboine, the corner and area will always have its share of issues.

[lotw_wpg]

We need beat cops patrolling that corner. Every week, there are 3 cop cars on that subway corner because of a crime that was committed. Regardless of the crime, it's a pretty popular area, and there are lots of people moving in that particular location. So with all the new builds and businesses popping up, I don't see why the city can't commit a couple of beat cops.

[EdwardTH]

As a general rule policing is reactive, not preventative.

[inlp89]

Not sure "Crime" is the only reason, Starbucks have been closing stores all over north America. They closed one of the busiest stores here in Gastown, nothing to do with crime.

[bon_vivant]

Originally Posted by inlp89

Not sure "Crime" is the only reason, Starbucks have been closing stores all over north America. They closed one of the busiest stores here in Gastown, nothing to do with crime.

It's true. Downtown stores in big cities aren't profitable enough anymore, it's all about big-box land now. But hey, why not use crime as an excuse to leave? Still, I heard it was really terrible for the staff.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

unfortunately, its been confirmed, closed due to safety. numerous stabbings and other crimes. such a shitty situation for the state of our city / country.

I wouldn't say the entire country. Sure there are issues in other cities but the situation is definitly worse here in Winnipeg. Just check the homicide thread in the main forum. Winnipeg is second in number of homicides only behind Toronto. Per capita we are first.


I was at polopark about a week ago, there was something going on at the side entrance, there were cops everywhere. Drove up to the top level parking lot by the food court, in front of the entrance there were people arguing and yelling loud over a pack of smokes. I rarely go to Polo park but it is definitely starting to feel more and more like portage place. My sister has a freind that works at a clothing store there and she said thefts and other incidents are definitely on the up at polo park. She doesn' enjoy wokring there anymore. Now that things are coming to an end at portage place, it seems like many have moved on to hanging out at Polo park instead.

[plrh]

Originally Posted by inlp89

Not sure "Crime" is the only reason, Starbucks have been closing stores all over north America. They closed one of the busiest stores here in Gastown, nothing to do with crime.

https://stories.starbucks.ca/en-ca/stori...nd-move-to-drive-thru-and-delivery-only/

This story is a little old, but they have been phasing out non-drive-thru locations generally.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by inlp89

Not sure "Crime" is the only reason, Starbucks have been closing stores all over north America. They closed one of the busiest stores here in Gastown, nothing to do with crime.

Bingo. It smelled like an excuse to me as well. Not that "crime" wasn't an issue, but I can't see any corporation closing a location if it contributes what they want to their bottom line.

Odds are this was a strictly financial/business model decision, and the "crime" issue just played well into the local narrative. The fact the local media just ate it up with two spoons without questioning it is, sadly, a typical situation.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by lotw_wpg

We need beat cops patrolling that corner. Every week, there are 3 cop cars on that subway corner because of a crime that was committed. Regardless of the crime, it's a pretty popular area, and there are lots of people moving in that particular location. So with all the new builds and businesses popping up, I don't see why the city can't commit a couple of beat cops.

I’ve said it before, I have been to Chicago many times now and find the Mag Mile and area around the park and museums always feel safe (much more so than downtown Winnipeg). They have patrol vehicles and police at every third or so intersection. It isn’t the greatest look, but it works. The visible presence either works or by perception works… either way it works. There is very little in the way of homeless and I have never seen a tent or camp (I am not naive, I know they are there, just not in the tourist area).

Winnipeg seems so resistant to put cops on the street.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by Biff

Winnipeg seems so resistant to put cops on the street.

Sadly that is the case.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

As a general rule policing is reactive, not preventative.

Visible law enforcement officers act as a deterrent from antisocial behaviour, so I would say they can prevent crime, or reduce it.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

Visible law enforcement officers act as a deterrent from antisocial behaviour, so I would say they can prevent crime, or reduce it.

I disagree with this premise.

I lived in Thompson for many years. I witnessed more incidents within a couple hundred feet of the RCMP detachment from people than I could count. Fighting, drinking, pissing in the RCMP parking lot, general lawlessness all the while police came and went.

What kind of deterrent has WPS headquarters downtown been to criminals in the couple of blocks surrounding it, with all of the police coming and going? Hint: Not much.

When people are under the influence (Manitoba's gift), they do not give a shit if police are nearby.

You think people are going to snap out of being on meth or drunk as a skunk because some police are around? Hell no. What are police going to do? Especially if they aren't breaking the law?

This isn't like Chicago where police are trying to prevent drug dealing on the corner or gangsters beefing with each other in certain parts of the city.

As a criminal defence lawyer in this city, put as many police on whatever corner you want and it won't do anything.

Finding a cure for meth (and one that will unmelt people's brains who have already been on it) is THE ONLY WAY THIS EVER CHANGES, PERIOD. That problem is only getting worse and will continue to get worse, I promise you.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Finding a cure for meth (and one that will unmelt people's brains who have already been on it) is THE ONLY WAY THIS EVER CHANGES, PERIOD. That problem is only getting worse and will continue to get worse, I promise you.

Crime peaked in North America in 1991, when there was no meth problem in Canada, and most American cities.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

^ You keep believing that.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

^ You keep believing that.

Yes, I like to believe real crime statistics that can be verified by numerous Government agencies, and reliable criminology sources. However, you are free to believe the falsehood that crime is worse now than any any time in history.