Place d'Orleans: potential redevelopment?

[DEWLine]

Two causes for some sadness that I discovered during my travels today:

1. Bateson House - the custom furniture shop on the ground floor - is going out of business.

2. The Canadian Shoe Outlet store is gone, too. Nothing but the display racks remains inside the store.

[Tesladom]

Maybe they can turn it into an urban cemetery?

[DEWLine]

I would rather it become livelier again. To that end, I'm still supporting 5-6 different shops there.

[Stacmon]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

I would rather it become livelier again. To that end, I'm still supporting 5-6 different shops there.

Are there specific places you recommend in the area for people wanting to shop local and keep that area lively?

[Harley613]

I just had my first walk around the mall in a couple of years. It seems to be holding it's own. I counted ten empty stores, and there are quite a few low rent stores in the mix, but the chains still have pretty good presence and generally modern stores. The mall is decently busy mid Monday afternoon.

This mall is so much more warm and welcoming that post renovation St. Laurent, even with it's mostly Original decor.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I just had my first walk around the mall in a couple of years. It seems to be holding it's own. I counted ten empty stores, and there are quite a few low rent stores in the mix, but the chains still have pretty good presence and generally modern stores. The mall is decently busy mid Monday afternoon.

This mall is so much more warm and welcoming that post renovation St. Laurent, even with it's mostly Original decor.

It's not a bad little mall. They were able to adapt to the changing times by leasing nearly the entire second level to the Feds and moving the food court to the ground level, taking some of the retail space.

It is kind of nice to have the mostly outdate, but warmer design. St. Laurent is incredibly sterile. Rideau and Bayshore as well, but they made it work a bit better.

[Harley613]

Today's empty store count - 13 (11 retail/2 food)

[Harley613]

Today's empty store count: 20 (17 retail/3 food).

Things are looking dire all of a sudden

[Tesladom]

Here are my ideas on how to attract more traffic - they all have to do with attracting parents with kids activities
For example, I remember a few years ago we had a hockey tournament in Cambridge, and the local mall had a rink at the center of the food court. Parents now have 45 minutes before the game to kill by shopping in the mall, and eating at food court during the game. Genius idea. ... and they probably got the municipality to pay for the ice
I would expand on that idea, think of all the kids activities where you drop off your kid for an hour and then come back, like gymnastic class etc... If these would be built into the mall, then parents might spend an hour shopping in the mall

Need to get creative here!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

Here are my ideas on how to attract more traffic - they all have to do with attracting parents with kids activities
For example, I remember a few years ago we had a hockey tournament in Cambridge, and the local mall had a rink at the center of the food court. Parents now have 45 minutes before the game to kill by shopping in the mall, and eating at food court during the game. Genius idea. ... and they probably got the municipality to pay for the ice
I would expand on that idea, think of all the kids activities where you drop off your kid for an hour and then come back, like gymnastic class etc... If these would be built into the mall, then parents might spend an hour shopping in the mall

Need to get creative here!

Malls in Ottawa haven't been doing much to attract people outside of the retail. I think St. Laurent has done an ok job with the private colleges (though I have my reservations about those), the place with the stuffed animal cars for kids, the gym... a few spots with captive audience.

More than that though, I think Malls need to realize loads of parking to accommodate the peak shopping season (two weeks in December) isn't going to attract shoppers. Redeveloping some of those parking lots with residential, adding thousands of residents who will shop at your mall on a daily basis, that's a better business model than asphalt.

I know Place d'Orleans opened up some Federal co-working space before the pandemic, which was a good move at the time, but I'm not sure how successful those are now.

[FrostyMug]

The Feds co-working space is still there but one thing that holds it back is the restrictions on which departments can access that space. The Service Canada office on the 2nd level is busy and a good draw and the RCMP still have their office upstairs as well.
I agree that there is a massive amount of opportunity with the direct connection to the LRT when it opens for the mall and the surrounding area to grow significantly. However there remains a high level of nimbyism against any significant height that will need to be overcome. The parking lot on the northeast side of the mall has room for residential as does all the property along St Joseph. Hopefully someone takes the initiative and actually starts a project...

[canadianinmichigan]

Originally Posted by hwy418

I agree with most of the above post, but these two points are simply not true.

1. Place D'Orleans is relatively close to downtown by car - not much further than Bayshore is. And access by auto and transit is very good. Provincial highway or not - it's still a freeway. Not sure how Tenth Line factors in as it supports local access.

2. Orleans has nearly the same population as the city of Kingston so it's big enough (and pretty affluent as well). However, the stores are so shitty, people are not going out of their way to shop there. Unfortunate, but it's reality.

Sorry to reply to a 4 year old post

Bayshore may be the same distance from the core but it has freeway access from Barrhaven and points south via 416, Kanata and Arnprior via 417 and Carleton place via the 7. Bayshore is also still inside the Greenbelt and I feel like that makes a big difference. Not to mention the Island Park Bridge connecting the west end to Aylmer, QC. I would argue that Bayshore has a higher population within a short drive.

It doesn't really matter how close to the core we are because if you are downtown you already have other options that have better stores. Totally agree the stores are not the best or unique. You can find them at other malls that have even better stores too.

While Orleans does have a large and growing population there aren't any other large communities nearby. We only have Rockland and Gloucester. Gloucester people can just go to St. Laurent. Russell people can use the 417 to get to St. Laurent and downtown just as quickly. We tend to work downtown and spend our money there. This was before e-commerce took over which probably meant spending even less money at the mall in the last few years. Work from home might help Orleans businesses somewhat however the mayor and premier have decided that we must be coerced to continue to spend money downtown instead of within our own communities.

Orleans is solidly affluent middle class but the west end is obviously wealthier. Thinking of Kanata tech industry, Westboro, etc.

[canadianinmichigan]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

More than that though, I think Malls need to realize loads of parking to accommodate the peak shopping season (two weeks in December) isn't going to attract shoppers. Redeveloping some of those parking lots with residential, adding thousands of residents who will shop at your mall on a daily basis, that's a better business model than asphalt.

I know Place d'Orleans opened up some Federal co-working space before the pandemic, which was a good move at the time, but I'm not sure how successful those are now.

Place d'Orleans has a large parking garage underneath the mall and a large parking structure on the St. Joseph side. They could easily remove some parking especially on the No Frills side.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by canadianinmichigan

Place d'Orleans has a large parking garage underneath the mall and a large parking structure on the St. Joseph side. They could easily remove some parking especially on the No Frills side.

That's a good point. Sometimes forget about the underground parking.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by canadianinmichigan

Sorry to reply to a 4 year old post

Bayshore may be the same distance from the core but it has freeway access from Barrhaven and points south via 416, Kanata and Arnprior via 417 and Carleton place via the 7. Bayshore is also still inside the Greenbelt and I feel like that makes a big difference. Not to mention the Island Park Bridge connecting the west end to Aylmer, QC. I would argue that Bayshore has a higher population within a short drive.

It doesn't really matter how close to the core we are because if you are downtown you already have other options that have better stores. Totally agree the stores are not the best or unique. You can find them at other malls that have even better stores too.

While Orleans does have a large and growing population there aren't any other large communities nearby. We only have Rockland and Gloucester. Gloucester people can just go to St. Laurent. Russell people can use the 417 to get to St. Laurent and downtown just as quickly. We tend to work downtown and spend our money there. This was before e-commerce took over which probably meant spending even less money at the mall in the last few years. Work from home might help Orleans businesses somewhat however the mayor and premier have decided that we must be coerced to continue to spend money downtown instead of within our own communities.

Orleans is solidly affluent middle class but the west end is obviously wealthier. Thinking of Kanata tech industry, Westboro, etc.

In addition to the competition with St Laurent, most of Orleans is also closer to Rideau Centre than most of Kanata is.

The opening of the O-Train eastern extension will also make it even easier for people from Orleans to go to Rideau (and to St Laurent as well).

O-Train expansion to Kanata is still a long way off.

[canadianinmichigan]

It seems like its official that The Bay will be closing. The Bay takes up a big chunk of the western side of the mall.

Now there will be no retail on the 2nd floor at all except Sport Check, I wonder how long they will keep the awkwardly located Superstore and relocate potentially to the former Bay space? This is just speculation. Not that The Bay drove much traffic to the mall anymore but it is still a lot of empty space in a highly visible part of the mall. Sears at St. Laurent has yet to be repurposed.

I wonder how this will affect the future of malls in Ottawa. Place dOrleans is probably the most vulnerable.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by canadianinmichigan

It seems like its official that The Bay will be closing. The Bay takes up a big chunk of the western side of the mall.

Now there will be no retail on the 2nd floor at all except Sport Check, I wonder how long they will keep the awkwardly located Superstore and relocate potentially to the former Bay space? This is just speculation. Not that The Bay drove much traffic to the mall anymore but it is still a lot of empty space in a highly visible part of the mall. Sears at St. Laurent has yet to be repurposed.

I wonder how this will affect the future of malls in Ottawa. Place dOrleans is probably the most vulnerable.

I think the main floor (being the only viable option) of the Bay space as being nearly as awkward as the Sport Check's current location. The main floor access is in a tight little corner behind an elevator and stairs.

There has been an Urban Behaviour on the main floor of the Sears space at St. Laurent for maybe two or three years now?

[FrostyMug]

Originally Posted by canadianinmichigan

.

I wonder how this will affect the future of malls in Ottawa. Place dOrleans is probably the most vulnerable.

I'm at Place D'Orleans weekly to walk and shop. I find it incredible that this location isn't viewed by developers as a massive opportunity. I look at as examples, Scarborough Town Centre or Square One and the development around both, then reflect on the LRT being right there literally attached to the mall and wonder why we aren't seeing the influx of residential into this general area? Keep in mind the transportation hub is also on this property.

The mall certainly has excess property on it's perimeter. There is land along St Joseph that is mostly underutilized and there is the vast property to the west where the No Frills plaza is that is also ripe for growth. There are also the empty fields across the 174 where so far, the best we can do, is a 5 story seniors residence!

There's no vision. I think the mall should be partially re-imagined into something no mall in Ottawa offers. They have the space and they need to bring people in. Orleans is full of young families. Yet there are no kid friendly spaces within the mall other than for special events. How about a play place of some kind? Along the lines of Cosmic Adventure as an example. Then something for their parents and teens. Altitude has a climbing gym in the former YMCA building almost next door. The Bay space would be suitable height wise for something similar. How about something crazy like IFly (the indoor skydiving place) or a year round ice/roller skating rink? IMAX? Something unique would draw people from across the city and since it's right on the LRT the college/university crowd would also have easy access.

There are currently government offices in the mall. Why not a medical facility or legal or financial offices? This can be the 15 minute city example if done properly. Farmboy is there already. Why there aren't shovels in the ground on multiple projects in this general area has mystified me for several years. I get maybe NIMBYism has played a roll but the trains will be rolling within 12 months or likely less. Why not be building to take advantage of that?

To me, with the right vision this mall is actually positioned to be a massive success story and is surrounded by opportunity. It's just a matter of the will to make it happen.

[OTownandDown]

On an entirely different scale, don't forget about Vaughan Metropolitan Centre. Any number of these transit stations have the ability to absorb that kind of development. We first need to get over the 28 storey building hurdle lol

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

I'm at Place D'Orleans weekly to walk and shop. I find it incredible that this location isn't viewed by developers as a massive opportunity. I look at as examples, Scarborough Town Centre or Square One and the development around both, then reflect on the LRT being right there literally attached to the mall and wonder why we aren't seeing the influx of residential into this general area? Keep in mind the transportation hub is also on this property.

The mall certainly has excess property on it's perimeter. There is land along St Joseph that is mostly underutilized and there is the vast property to the west where the No Frills plaza is that is also ripe for growth. There are also the empty fields across the 174 where so far, the best we can do, is a 5 story seniors residence!

There's no vision. I think the mall should be partially re-imagined into something no mall in Ottawa offers. They have the space and they need to bring people in. Orleans is full of young families. Yet there are no kid friendly spaces within the mall other than for special events. How about a play place of some kind? Along the lines of Cosmic Adventure as an example. Then something for their parents and teens. Altitude has a climbing gym in the former YMCA building almost next door. The Bay space would be suitable height wise for something similar. How about something crazy like IFly (the indoor skydiving place) or a year round ice/roller skating rink? IMAX? Something unique would draw people from across the city and since it's right on the LRT the college/university crowd would also have easy access.

There are currently government offices in the mall. Why not a medical facility or legal or financial offices? This can be the 15 minute city example if done properly. Farmboy is there already. Why there aren't shovels in the ground on multiple projects in this general area has mystified me for several years. I get maybe NIMBYism has played a roll but the trains will be rolling within 12 months or likely less. Why not be building to take advantage of that?

To me, with the right vision this mall is actually positioned to be a massive success story and is surrounded by opportunity. It's just a matter of the will to make it happen.

[Dundas]

Replying back to what FrostyMug posted.

Why not a medical facility or legal or financial offices?

I recently received news that St-Joseph Family Medicine Clinic will shut down at the medical building at 2555 St-Josheph blvd and move into Place d'Orleans.