OC Transpo

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

So not remotely comparable. Trams don't whip around corners at 50 km/h+ speeds. Nor have passenger levels anywhere near Ottawa's Metro. It would help if we just called our system a Metro with ridership as well.

That's exactly why I find it disingenuous to call it "the LRT". I much prefer the proprietary name "O-Train" because it's more appropriate for a unique system like ours which incorporates light rail, metro, and regional rail elements.

To call it LRT misaligns expectations especially when nothing about our system is LRT apart from Line 1 rolling stock. Everything else, from stations (incl. fare control) to expected speeds to expected loads points to light metro.

LRT is just some fancy buzzword that our politicians latched on to over a decade ago and has led to numerous poor decisions in the planning process because everything was approached with "LRT" in mind despite the fact that we were really building a light metro.

Going forward, hopefully the bogie assembly re-design yields positive results. But I'm already looking decades ahead to the next train procurement, where we need to look at a custom solution rather than the COTS/MOTS product Alstom shoved down our throats. It's no different than how very old networks around the world like the London Underground procure unique rolling stock to meet the unique traits of their lines, like tunnel size/shape. A train can certainly be designed to meet all the demands and constraints of our system, but it needs to be built with "O-Train" in mind, rather than trying to shoehorn an LRT solution into a non-LRT context.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yes. Might not feel that way. But stop spacing and grade separation determine speeds. With stops 1-2 km apart instead of 300-500m and no traffic to worry about, our LRVs can run much faster.

Thanks. I was thinking of the portion of the route that goes south from Union where it’s underground. After the Harbourfront stop where it turns and heads above ground it seems to go reasonably fast around a tight corner, but maybe it’s deceptive.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by phil235

Thanks. I was thinking of the portion of the route that goes south from Union where it’s underground. After the Harbourfront stop where it turns and heads above ground it seems to go reasonably fast around a tight corner, but maybe it’s deceptive.

I would be surprised if it was going more than 10 kph at that point.

Also, that is one turn, and I am sure the vehicles are used on multiple routes. An Ottawa vehicle makes a half dozen tight turns at a high speed (at least when operations started) each run, and probably repeats the run 40 times a day, every day.

[Truenorth00]

All those reports have literally told us that these curves and the speeds at which they take them are the problem. I don't the skepticism about how bad that is.

[Hybrid247]

OC Transpo just released its new bus network map and service changes for post-Trillium line opening.

https://www.octranspo.com/en/plan-your-trip/service-changes/new-ways-to-bus

I haven't analyzed the changes in depth yet, but one thing I immediately noticed is the removal of "Rapid" routes. All previous Rapid routes have been converted to "Frequent". Not sure what that means for service frequency, but it's kind of odd that Transitway routes won't be designated as "rapid" anymore.

Another thing that's odd is that many routes will be terminating at Limebank, while none whatsoever will be going to Bowesville. That's odd because Limebank doesn't technically have a dedicated bus operator building like those you find at major terminus stations like Blair and Hurdman, but Bowesville does. Limebank will have rail operator building within the station, but I don't think the intent is for those facilities to be shared with bus operators. This also means the bus operator building at Bowesville will go unused indefinitely, perhaps until there's enough urban development nearby to warrant bus service in the area. Very strange.

Edit: They created a new "Frequent" bus route map as well
https://www.octranspo.com/images/files/maps/network_maps/LRT-Frequent_Map_14March_2024_(MASTER).pdf

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

OC Transpo just released its new bus network map and service changes for post-Trillium line opening.

https://www.octranspo.com/en/plan-your-trip/service-changes/new-ways-to-bus

I haven't analyzed the changes in depth yet, but one thing I immediately noticed is the removal of "Rapid" routes. All previous Rapid routes have been converted to "Frequent". Not sure what that means for service frequency, but it's kind of odd that Transitway routes won't be designated as "rapid" anymore.

Another thing that's odd is that many routes will be terminating at Limebank, while none whatsoever will be going to Bowesville. That's odd because Limebank doesn't technically have a dedicated bus operator building like those you find at major terminus stations like Blair and Hurdman, but Bowesville does. Limebank will have rail operator building within the station, but I don't think the intent is for those facilities to be shared with bus operators. This also means the bus operator building at Bowesville will go unused indefinitely, perhaps until there's enough urban development nearby to warrant bus service in the area. Very strange.

Edit: They created a new "Frequent" bus route map as well
https://www.octranspo.com/images/files/maps/network_maps/LRT-Frequent_Map_14March_2024_(MASTER).pdf

Doing away with the "Rapid" designation makes sense as nothing about those routes is rapid. Although the switch from orange to blue for "Frequent" routes seems like a cheap attempt at making it look like there will be frequency boosts, which is obviously not the case.

Scanning through it, nothing really to get excited about if you live in a neighbourhood where people actually use transit outside of commuting hours. One thing that made me laugh is that they decided the route taken by the 11 route isn't rage inducing enough, so in addition to the route's jaunt up and down Holland to serve Tunney's, they've added a SECOND one via Preston and Bayswater so the route can touch Bayview station. Sheer stupidity. The definition of " transit designed by people who don't use transit".

[lrt's friend]

One of the solutions to all the complaints about the design of Hurdman Station is the plan to reduce the number of routes serving the station from 24 to 12. We have built it into a major transfer station for 40 years and we are now blowing it away. Remember those videos of the volume of buses going through there. We are being forced onto Line 2, despite the fact that there is zero improvement in service, it runs slower than buses and trains will not be coordinated with buses.

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

One thing that made me laugh is that they decided the route taken by the 11 route isn't rage inducing enough, so in addition to the route's jaunt up and down Holland to serve Tunney's, they've added a SECOND one via Preston and Bayswater so the route can touch Bayview station. Sheer stupidity. The definition of " transit designed by people who don't use transit".

Makes a bit of sense adding the bit to Bayview, to give a connection to Line 2. Of course that should suffice as a connection to Line 1 too, and should eliminate the need for the detour up and down Holland.

[Uhuniau]

I said from the start, despite the proximity to the ones north and south of it, that there ought to be a rail station at Somerset.

[Uhuniau]

I hate having to use two separate maps to navigate this city by transit.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

Makes a bit of sense adding the bit to Bayview, to give a connection to Line 2. Of course that should suffice as a connection to Line 1 too, and should eliminate the need for the detour up and down Holland.

I don't know what how prevalent the 11 <-> Line 2 travel pattern is. I'm sure it exists but I'd imagine people coming from the west (e.g. Bayshore) would take a Transitway route to Tunney's, Line 1 to Bayview, and Line 2 from there. One of those transfers is eliminated post- Stage 2. From the eastern end of the 11 route, it'd make more sense to take Line 1 from uOttawa or Rideau stations then transfer to Line 2. There's even the option of taking the 11 to Parliament station and taking Line 1 to Bayview from there, which is much faster than taking the 11 through congested Centretown and Chinatown to Bayview.

To me, the 11 is for crosstown journeys parallel to Line 1 / Transitway routes. I use it as a more direct option from Centretown to destinations along the bustling Somerset/Wellington W/Richmond corridor through Chinatown, Hintonburg and Westboro. The benefit of the 11 is eroded with these time-wasting jaunts away from the main corridor. It's such a frustrating, yet classic, philosophy for OCT planners, to implement meandering routes and act as if everyone taking transit is a non time-sensitive captive rider who's just along for the ride.

I emailed Councillor Leiper about this modification and he mentioned he's been pushing back on it to OCT since it was proposed, to no avail. I'm going to be relentless until I at least get a idea of their rationale for the change, because I'm certain it's going to be laughable. If the connection to Bayview must stay for whatever reason, the Holland Ave. / Tunney's portion absolutely needs to go.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

I don't know what how prevalent the 11 <-> Line 2 travel pattern is. I'm sure it exists but I'd imagine people coming from the west (e.g. Bayshore) would take a Transitway route to Tunney's, Line 1 to Bayview, and Line 2 from there. One of those transfers is eliminated post- Stage 2. From the eastern end of the 11 route, it'd make more sense to take Line 1 from uOttawa or Rideau stations then transfer to Line 2. There's even the option of taking the 11 to Parliament station and taking Line 1 to Bayview from there, which is much faster than taking the 11 through congested Centretown and Chinatown to Bayview.

To me, the 11 is for crosstown journeys parallel to Line 1 / Transitway routes. I use it as a more direct option from Centretown to destinations along the bustling Somerset/Wellington W/Richmond corridor through Chinatown, Hintonburg and Westboro. The benefit of the 11 is eroded with these time-wasting jaunts away from the main corridor. It's such a frustrating, yet classic, philosophy for OCT planners, to implement meandering routes and act as if everyone taking transit is a non time-sensitive captive rider who's just along for the ride.

I emailed Councillor Leiper about this modification and he mentioned he's been pushing back on it to OCT since it was proposed, to no avail. I'm going to be relentless until I at least get a idea of their rationale for the change, because I'm certain it's going to be laughable. If the connection to Bayview must stay for whatever reason, the Holland Ave. / Tunney's portion absolutely needs to go.

It will go when the round of bus route cuts are implemented with the opening of Phase 2 west.

Notice the new Preston bus route which only runs from Carling to Hull. This is so useless, because it is so short, that low ridership will eventually put it on the chopping block. Too bad we can't go back to connecting Preston with the Hog's Back area. That was a major loss of connectivity back in 2011 especially with Hog's Back having so much modest income housing.

It is now for the most part a waste of time talking to councillors about bus route changes. The transit commission is operating with minimal political influence. That might be good from a business point of view, but it also means there is very limited opportunities for customers to influence decisions. We have created a black box. This also means, that there is a greater chance for things to go very wrong, with minimal customer input. We saw this in 2019 and I expect that 2024 changes will also cause a hostile customer response when it goes into effect. This is the second major transit reconfiguration in just 5 years, and the third since 2011. Sure, there needs to be changes as a result of re-opening and extension of the Trillium Line, but we are making a massive system wide change. Frequent major changes are very disruptive for customers and risks ridership losses.

There are a number of errors on the proposed transit map. For example, Route 97 at South Keys which is being cancelled entirely. Route 125 at Blair being shown as frequent when it is a seasonal route with only a couple of runs. I don't know why we even bother having these token routes. If you want to go to the Aviation Museum, drive like 99.5% of the population or walk from the closest bus route in Wateridge Village. Probably there are no sidewalks, however, typical of Ottawa/NCC modern street planning. Just like in my neighbourhood, where they built 100 new homes and provided no pedestrian connections to nearby shopping and all day transit.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

I don't know what how prevalent the 11 <-> Line 2 travel pattern is. I'm sure it exists but I'd imagine people coming from the west (e.g. Bayshore) would take a Transitway route to Tunney's, Line 1 to Bayview, and Line 2 from there. One of those transfers is eliminated post- Stage 2. From the eastern end of the 11 route, it'd make more sense to take Line 1 from uOttawa or Rideau stations then transfer to Line 2. There's even the option of taking the 11 to Parliament station and taking Line 1 to Bayview from there, which is much faster than taking the 11 through congested Centretown and Chinatown to Bayview.

After Phase II opens, the 11 should hopefully be re-configured to connect at the Richmond Road stations, with no more jogs.

Route 11 serves a completely different function than the "parallel" east-west LRT trips, just like Transitway buses in days of yore. I'm always nervous when there's some idea abroad the the LRT displaces the local bus routes in the west end, because they don't.

[rocketphish]

What you need to know about OC Transpo's bus route overhaul
Transit service says changes will begin when Trillium Line launches

Priscilla Ki Sun Hwang · CBC News
Posted: Mar 26, 2024 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 8 hours ago

It's been more than four months since OC Transpo announced it's planning to overhaul its bus routes and now customers have a few more details about changes to their commutes.

Last week, the transit service launched its new campaign dubbed "New Ways to Bus" to help riders prepare for major changes when the expanded north-south Trillium Line trains return later in spring or summer.

OC Transpo has called it a "route optimization" and said the sweeping changes will drop about 74,000 service hours per year, or 3.5 per cent of current network service levels.

Ridership fell short of recent targets and has consistently trailed the pandemic recovery of other Canadian cities, contributing to a budget gap.

OC Transpo's general manager Renée Amilcar told the city's transit commission the overhaul was not about "cost-cutting," but rather "the responsible decision" by a steward of taxpayers' dollars.

The city hired third-party consultant Dillon Consulting to study, review and propose changes to the network.

The overhaul coming this year is the biggest since a review in 2011 that prompted thousands of customer complaints.

According to the New Ways to Bus website, "every neighbourhood and most customers will see changes to their trip."

There will be more frequent service on some routes and 58 local routes designed to deliver riders to neighbourhood destinations and busy transit hubs.

There will also be 17 fast, peak-period connections to the O-Train.

Some people will have to travel farther to get to bus stops and in some cases, transfer more frequently to connecting buses or trains, OC Transpo said.

Some routes will be axed completely due to low ridership, but the transit service says alternatives will be available nearby.

"A lot of the new routes try to capture the common denominator," explained Barrhaven East Coun. Wilson Lo, who said the changes will mean less focus on connecting to downtown and more emphasis on bridging local travel.

"I completely understand the cynicism and unease that comes with any major change," he said.

"I believe this is our last chance to truly recover OC Transpo's reputation."

OC Transpo said at this time, it's not planning to change 300-series shopper routes, 400-series event routes, 600-series school routes or nighttime routes, but urges customers to keep checking its website for any updates.

Since most routes will see some change — from extensions to timing to replacements — the city has listed 27 routes that will remain unchanged: 6, 14, 19, 21, 23, 26, 38, 42, 44, 45, 47, 51, 56, 57, 67, 84, 87, 90, 98, 139, 158, 221, 222, 228, 237, 262 and 277.

Several 200-series routes will be cancelled. Some transit riders told CBC News in the fall they felt betrayed by that decision.

OC Transpo's website breaks down the changes by route number, so customers can see how their individual travel patterns will change.

"So feeder buses to the train — the old express routes, the old connection routes — that's where people are going to see the greatest reduction," said Pat Scrimgeour, director of transit customer systems and planning with OC Transpo.

"We're responding to travel patterns that people are making now."

It's not clear exactly when transit riders will start seeing their bus routes change.

The Trillium Line has been delayed a few times and no firm deadline was given during last month's progress update.

Transit staff at the time suggested the Trillium Line may open between July and September.

"We'll open the system when we'll be ready, but for now I'm confident that it will be this spring," Amilcar said in response to a question last week.

At one time, a smaller line was supposed to be open in the fall of 2021. The target was September 2022 by the time construction began.

Scrimgeour said more information will emerge in the coming weeks and months, including specific schedules and dates.

"We can't say yet what those dates are," he told CBC on Monday.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/oc-transpo-route-change-cut-2024-otrain-trillium-1.7155003

[phil235]

Council: we need to focus on revitalizing downtown as it is the indisputable heart of our city.

Council a month later: we have decided to cut a bunch of bus routes to have less focus on connecting downtown.

Council a year from now: we can't understand why our downtown revitalization efforts haven't worked.

[lrt's friend]

"A lot of the new routes try to capture the common denominator," explained Barrhaven East Coun. Wilson Lo, who said the changes will mean less focus on connecting to downtown and more emphasis on bridging local travel.

That is certainly not the case in our neighbourhood and the adjacent neighbourhoods close to the Trillium Line, that lose local connectivity as well as connectivity to downtown. So, where does transit take you? The destinations are very limited.

OC Transpo's general manager Renée Amilcar told the city's transit commission the overhaul was not about "cost-cutting," but rather "the responsible decision" by a steward of taxpayers' dollars.

This is bureaucratic double talk. Quit talking down to the public. It is cost-cutting. Admit it. Don't treat us as idiots.

"I believe this is our last chance to truly recover OC Transpo's reputation."

I am not sure how you recover a reputation through the biggest service cut since 2011, which was arguably the beginning of the OC Transpo spiral downward, and increasing disconnect with its customers.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

Council: we need to focus on revitalizing downtown as it is the indisputable heart of our city.

Council a month later: we have decided to cut a bunch of bus routes to have less focus on connecting downtown.

Council a year from now: we can't understand why our downtown revitalization efforts haven't worked.

We have already transferred most retail and entertainment out of downtown to the suburbs over the last 50 years. We are now wanting to transfer most jobs to the suburbs, leaving downtown to become increasingly a bedroom community. And guess what? You will need a car to get to those suburban jobs. Are we really creating an urban utopia?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

Council: we need to focus on revitalizing downtown as it is the indisputable heart of our city.

Council a month later: we have decided to cut a bunch of bus routes to have less focus on connecting downtown.

Council a year from now: we can't understand why our downtown revitalization efforts haven't worked.

What happened to our night mayor?

It will be bad enough going downtown during the day. Only the desperate will be using transit after 6 pm, except the 10% (after Phase 2 opens fully) who live within walking distance of a rail station.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by phil235

Council a month later: we have decided to cut a bunch of bus routes to have less focus on connecting downtown.

In fairness, the cuts to downtown connections mentioned are 200-series "Connexion" routes which did nothing but bring disgruntled office workers downtown just for them to catch the first bus home at 3pm. Not really much of a contribution to downtown vibrancy.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This is bureaucratic double talk. Quit talking down to the public. It is cost-cutting. Admit it. Don't treat us as idiots.

The problem is that when OC management talks to its customer base, they aren't thinking about "normal" people like you or I. They're thinking about captive riders who, in OC's mind, can be talked down to or attempted to fool by using political rhetoric like "responsible decisions" or "tax dollar stewardship". They talk down on us without even realizing it because in their minds, whether subconsciously or not, they think of customers as people who can be abused because they have no alternative. And yet they act shocked when ridership plummets.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We have already transferred most retail and entertainment out of downtown to the suburbs over the last 50 years. We are now wanting to transfer most jobs to the suburbs, leaving downtown to become increasingly a bedroom community. And guess what? You will need a car to get to those suburban jobs. Are we really creating an urban utopia?

That's nonsense. Ottawa's flagship retail destination, the Rideau Centre, is located downtown. All of our premier arts/culture/entertainment options (e.g. National Gallery, OAG, NAC, etc. are located downtown. The Redblacks, 67s, PWHL, Atleti, Blackjacks, and Titans are all located steps from downtown (in areas considered downtown by most suburbanites). The notable exception is the Sens, whose location is a universally recognized blunder and is in the process of being rectified.

I promise you nobody visiting Ottawa on leisure is touching and immediately bolting to the suburbs unless it's to see friends, family or the Sens.

Anyways, that's a totally different conversation but how it pertains to this topic is that OCT is doing nothing to improve bus service downtown and in urban wards (i.e. the only places with consistent, all day/week transit usage) while simultaneously moaning about ridership losses due to WFH. There was no clearer sign, no more obvious opportunity than the post-pandemic reality to shift the focus of transit in this city, and OCT blew it.

[Richard Eade]

“More emphasis on bridging local travel”? How does that explain Barrhaven? Try to get from the east side of Barrhaven to the Walter Baker Centre.

Shortest routing I noticed: The # 84, which seems to only run around Centre Pointe and then to Baseline Station. Seriously, just take the truncated # 88 from Baseline Station and loop it around the western leg of Centre Pointe to get to/from Baseline Rd. That, at least, would connect those folks to Bayshore Mall without a transfer.

A random Idea: DON’T jump the # 11 up to Bayview. If there is a need to connect it to the Trillium Line, then swap the # 14 and # 11 for part of their routes. The # 14 would head south on Holland before turning onto Somerset to get to Elgin before resuming its proposed route. Since the # 14 starts at Tunney’s Pasture Station, it is unlikely that many people would use it to connect between the Confederation Line and the Trillium Line. The # 11 would leave Tunney’s Pasture Station and use Parkdale before turning onto Gladstone where it would continue until Elgin. There is no good reason, that I know of, for the # 11 to use the proposed routing. It can connect with the Trillium Line at Corso Italia; folks can transfer to the # 6 or 7 at Bank (increase the frequency of those two routes); and the # 10 does the same loop around Wellington and Slater. In the below diagram (which I modified from the OC Transpo map, for illustrative purpose) I have left the # 11 following the # 10 around that loop, although it could simply head east of Elgin at Albert/Slater and leave the loop to the # 10. Connection with the STO would be at Mackenzie King Station.