Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

That clip is about 20 years old.

Not many people pay with cash here anymore.. unless you are little old lady at a grocery store.

Cash is still more convenient for fraudsters which was the central theme of Les Bougon.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Split the thread in two, one for culture things, one for politics, if the grumpy forumers can't stand politics.

SSP Canada not survive with two Québec threads. Even one is probably too much.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Was boring as hell. Haven't watched the Québec version.

Line la pas fine became Caty casse-couilles in the French version.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Zeej

Latest Leger poll shows no increase of support - stable at 35% versus 56% for the no (9% undecided).

We'll see if PSPP's summer tour moves the needle. By contrast, we'll see if Denis Coderre's summer tour is at all impactful. Polls indicate a bump in support for the PLQ if he becomes leader with the potential to draw away more support from the CAQ.

There is another poll today that shows 41%, and 47% among young people.

I don't think they are moving in on a win, but as I said there is a slight unexpected bump.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

SSP Canada not survive with two Québec threads. Even one is probably too much.

Ah, I see. Imagine if it was a Québec thread discussing independence... en français, with members from the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Ah, I see. Imagine if it was a Québec thread discussing independence... en français, with members from the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste.

This section of the forum is not supposed to have threads only about specific provinces or cities and the topics are supposed to be cross-Canada in focus.

But Quebec topics were too often dominating too many other threads so this one was created.

Ironic because Quebec members are significantly underrepresented on SSP and most people on here aren't from Quebec.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ironic because Quebec members are significantly underrepresented on SSP and most people on here aren't from Quebec.

It's the same at SSC. Almost no forumers from Québec, and the only conspicuous one around, who is moderator on top of it, is an Anglophone from Montréal, born of immigrant Asian parents, who blocks all threads that even remotely discuss Québec politics or anything that could possibly be interpreted as having a link with politics, and who has also banned several members with accusations of "inciting hatred", because they argued that the Québecois were entitled to an independent country if that's what they wish.

SSP feels quite relaxed and tolerant in comparison.

PS: No, I wasn't banned by that moderator, just to make clear, but several French forumers were banned. His blocking all Québec-related threads has become something of a meme at SSC, non-French European forumers find that quite bizarre.

[Acajack]

A significantly disproportionate amount of chatter in the ROC is about the neighbours: the US and Québec.

Sometomes I wonder what they would talk about if they were an island like Australia.

The US and Québec on the other hand are much more insular in their focus. Not sure if it's better but it is different.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

A significantly disproportionate amount of chatter in the ROC is about the neighbours: the US and Québec.

Sometomes I wonder what they would talk about if they were an island like Australia.

No Vancouver vs Toronto?

Australia is basically all about Sydney vs Melbourne. That plus talking about Britain. Australians are much, much more "British" than the Canadians. It's still a country they observe a lot and that they feel is part of the "family". Many Australians spend a sabbatical year in the UK when they turn 18, or at least do a summer trip there.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It's the same at SSC. Almost no forumers from Québec, and the only conspicuous one around, who is moderator on top of it, is an Anglophone from Montréal, born of immigrant Asian parents, who blocks all threads that even remotely discuss Québec politics or anything that could possibly be interpreted as having a link with politics, and who has also banned several members with accusations of "inciting hatred", because they argued that the Québecois were entitled to an independent country if that's what they wish.

SSP feels quite relaxed and tolerant in comparison.

PS: No, I wasn't banned by that moderator, just to make clear, but several French forumers were banned. His blocking all Québec-related threads has become something of a meme at SSC, non-French European forumers find that quite bizarre.

I firmly believe that urban affairs can’t be discussed properly if social issues and politics are banned subjects, so I’d say SSC is being really idiotic (their loss)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

I wish there was more discussion on the language and culture itself. In particular, the different expressions and phrases, as well as the good shows and music that are authentically Québécois.

Think about it for a second; why on Earth would we discuss stuff like that among ourselves? It’s much more natural to discuss the freshest Quebec news (one of those being the rise of PSPP and deflating of the CAQ).

(Imagine if I said I just ventured into the Calgary subforum and my take from that experience was “I wish the locals in that forum section had been discussing the English language and Albertan culture, rather than discuss the newest and most interesting Calgary news like they did!”)

On the other hand, any questions anyone may have are pretty much always gladly answered by any of the handful of Quebec SSPers, even when asked through preexisting ongoing conversation about politics or whatnot — it’s a feature of post-based discussion, several subjects can coexist simultaneously without problem

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ironic because Quebec members are significantly underrepresented on SSP and most people on here aren't from Quebec.

Older SSP folk will remember the days when the Quebec (and francophone) contingent was very represented, perhaps even disproportionately, on SSP. The Quebec subforum was incredibly thriving. Then the overlord Malek, having been banned for being a jerk, started mtlurb, and the exodus commenced.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

I firmly believe that urban affairs can’t be discussed properly if social issues and politics are banned subjects, so I’d say SSC is being really idiotic (their loss)

Oh, politics are not banned. Not at all. European politics are debated at length, even the most obscure Eastern European politics involving subregions you have never heard about. It's just Québec politics that are forbidden (but his understanding of "politics" is very extensive... for example threads commenting the language results of the Canadian census in Québec were locked by the said "moderator").

[whatnext]

The linguistic insecurity on display in this story is hilarious.

I'm always struck when in Germany in their near-effortless switch from German to English when they realize you're from the Anglo world. Such a stark contrast from the French speaking world who go out of their way to pretend they don't know your an English speaker.

It's a shame youth find English words 'cool,' Legault says bilingually
The premier's gaffe was met with laughter in the National Assembly.

Author of the article: Montreal Gazette
Published Feb 08, 2024

Quebec Premier François Legault was met with laughter in the National Assembly on Thursday when he complained about young Quebecers using English words … using an English word.

Specifically, Legault lamented that young people find it “cool” to use English words or speak to each other in English.

He then stood in silence for a few seconds as MNAs erupted in laughter, eventually joining in.

To use another English word: Ironic.

Legault had been defending his government’s 2023 ad campaign aimed at reducing the use of anglicisms by young Quebecers....

https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/...lish-words-cool-legault-says-bilingually

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Such a stark contrast from the French speaking world who go out of their way to pretend they don't know your an English speaker.

King of the clichés?

It's time to update your world. The French have no problem communicating in English with foreigners. In fact they too eagerly do it in my opinion, either because they want to show off, or they imagine foreigners cannot understand French (it's particularly ridiculous when store clerks on the Champs-Elysées addresse Francophone tourists, such as Lebanese, directly in English without even a word of French).

As for the Germans, not all of them speak "effortless English". I once went to an optic store in Berlin on Kurfürstendamm (their Champs-Elysées) to buy some contact lenses, and to my amazement no one in the store could speak English. Same at the train station in Mainz/Mayence once, no English speakers on the platform. So you know...

As for Québec, if you don't understand the particular linguistic pressure that they experience on a daily base, you may want to re-read 300 pages of thread. Comments like yours can only boost the pro-independence vote.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I'm always struck when in Germany in their near-effortless switch from German to English when they realize you're from the Anglo world. Such a stark contrast from the French speaking world who go out of their way to pretend they don't know your an English speaker.

Maybe you're confusing Germany with Netherlands or Sweden? In my experience, from Ku'damm to Bavaria, many of the local Germans outright refuse to speak to you in English unless they're forced to in a front line service job.

East Asian (even Japan surprisingly) and SE Asian countries are much more receptive to accommodating English speakers. But from their view English will never have supremacy over the local language so it's not seen as a threat.

[Acajack]

Surely the irony of English-speaking Canadians lecturing French-speaking Canadians on the importance of learning more than one language is not lost on any rational people reading this.

[niwell]

My experience in Berlin was that English is common, but far less universal than my experience in Denmark. I had to at least attempt German a lot more! Echoing what was noted above my friends who live elsewhere in the country have noted that English proficiency is much less common. Which one may expect from a country of that size and economic heft.

It’s akin to experiences in resort town Mexico vs more local spots in Mexico City. Why would they speak English? You also have cases like South Africa where English is an extremely common second language (probably less than 10% speak it at home) as a means to bridge the gap between the multitude of other languages - and cultural reasons to eschew a certain language.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

King of the clichés?

It's time to update your world. The French have no problem communicating in English with foreigners. In fact they too eagerly do it in my opinion, either because they want to show off, or they imagine foreigners cannot understand French (it's particularly ridiculous when store clerks on the Champs-Elysées addresse Francophone tourists, such as Lebanese, directly in English without even a word of French)...:

Really, that cliche of the French being rude and refusing to speak English must have just materialized out of thin air then.

And I'm sure that pleasant Quebecois waitress in a Quebec City American-chain hotel really couldn't make the huge leap between cranberry and canneberge when I asked her for juice.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Surely the irony of English-speaking Canadians lecturing French-speaking Canadians on the importance of learning more than one language is not lost on any rational people reading this.

Sorta like the sad irony of a Premier of the Province of Quebec over what he deems appropriate for youths in his province to consider cool.