Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec intends to renew notwithstanding clause that shields Bill 21 from Charter challenges. Québec solidaire supports this even though they are against Bill 21. They think Quebec should be free to decide such matters.

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-n...al&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1707315387

The Liberals, however, maintain their opposition to the law.

“We will be consistent,” said Liberal MNA Madwa-Nika Cadet. “Everything we said about Bill 21 before the election, during the election and after the election remains the same. We will not support the reconduction of the notwithstanding clause.”

Shouldn't they be renamed the "Veil Party".

I'll never understand Anglo-Saxon liberals defending Islamic rigor. It's like "Gays for Hamas". Turkeys for Christmas rather.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

You don't think Haiti is also aiming for an advanced economy with commensurate lifestyles?

I suppose every country is.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

If you're curious how Montréal, Toronto, and Vancouver compare to a few other US metro areas... Again keep in mind these are strictly comparable metro areas based on the international definition of the FUA.

I'm also adding Sydney and Melbourne for comparison.

Real GDP per capita growth 2001-2019:
- San Francisco-San Jose metro area: +62.4%
- Seattle metro area: +45.5%
- New York City metro area: +35.2%
- Boston metro area: +34.6%
- Los Angeles metro area: +32.3%
- Washington-Baltimore metro area: +25.9%
- Philadelphia metro area: +24.4%
- Chicago metro area: +23.9%
- Vancouver metro area: +20.9%
- Dallas metro area: +19.4%
- Houston metro area: +16.7%
- Montréal metro area: +13.4%
- Sydney metro area: +12.3%
- Melbourne metro area: +6.0%
- Toronto metro area: +2.4%

I don't know about the Australian cities but Toronto including the GTA has the fastest growing population of all of those cities. New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco-Oakland, Chicago and Philadelphia are all losing people.

Toronto also has had a big boom of skyscrapers being built at a rate much faster than anywhere else in Canada and the U.S..

But I'm assuming the per capita growth is lower in Toronto mainly because of explosive population growth. I also question the suggestion that Toronto is performing more poorly than all of the other cities listed.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I also agree that Montreal is unlikely to be in conflict with the rest of Quebec post-independence. I think there will be population exchanges between the Canada-sans-Québec and Québec in the years following independence. More people leaving Montreal for the ROC obviously. Probably in the hundreds of thousands - most of them anglophones and allophones. It's definitely possible that half the anglophone population could leave Quebec in the 5-10 years after independence. People from the ROC moving to Quebec would be overwhelmingly francophone, and many would settle in the Montreal area.

So Montreal would be more francophone, perhaps a bit diminished, but still the showplace metropolis for the new country of Québec.

Yes there would be tensions with the "regions", but those exist everywhere.

I see Toronto and Ontario's dominance of Canada-sans-Québec as something that would be more challenged, especially given the great distances and lack of commonalities and affinities due to that.

Almost everyone in Rouyn-Noranda or Rimouski has a direct "relationship" with Montreal, good or bad. It's not so much the case across the ROC with Toronto given its size and diversity.

You seem to be suggesting that independence for Quebec is a given. I haven't seen anything suggesting that support is even close to making that a reality.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^There was a dreadful article last night in the Financial Times about the crazy housing situation in Anglophone Canada, and how a majority of people now support putting a limit on unbridled immigration. Apparently a one-bedroom apartment in Toronto costs more than 2,000 dollars to rent on average. That's absolutely insane! (for a city which, sorry if this doesn't sound PC, is not particularly exceptional in terms of quality of life/scenery/entertainment on a world scale)

One bigwig in Ottawa with an Asian name was commenting (the polls showing a majority of people now want to stop unlimited immigration): "This is not who we are as Canadians", as if opposing unlimited immigration was shameful or something...

Yet Toronto is almost always in the top 10 cities in the world in so many studies for quality of life.

And Toronto does have quite a bit of entertainment. It's a big destination for musicals, theatre, concerts and sports. I get that the city can be boring in some aspects and doesn't have the style, coolness and joie de vivre that Montreal has.

What does having an Asian name have to do with the comment about immigration? I think about 15-20% of Canadians are of Asian origin and many were born here. Their opinions vary a lot.

There isn't widespread opinion that immigration is bad. I would say that most people here find the current numbers to be unsustainable and not good if we don't have enough housing.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by Loco101

You seem to be suggesting that independence for Quebec is a given. I haven't seen anything suggesting that support is even close to making that a reality.

Didn’t you know this thread has just turned into 2-3 people mostly projecting the pipe dreams of independence for Québec.

I wish there was more discussion on the language and culture itself. In particular, the different expressions and phrases, as well as the good shows and music that are authentically Québécois.

For example, I’ve been watching 19-2 and holy shit that show is a marvellous police drama. At the same time, I’ve learned an incredible amount of swearing just from the first season and my French listening comprehension has improved dramatically because I watch with French subtitles (has anyone told y’all that spoken french is so damn fast and has crazy conjugation). What other shows, podcast, or movies can y’all recommend me that help me get a more informed glimpse into Québec?

[harls]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

What other shows, podcast, or movies can y’all recommend me that help me get a more informed glimpse into Québec?

Don't laugh.. but when I moved here I watched.. Ramdam.
Les Invincibles and les Beaux Malaises were pretty good too.

Watch Tout le monde en parle live on Sunday nights for more current events.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Didn’t you know this thread has just turned into 2-3 people mostly projecting the pipe dreams of independence for Québec.

Yeah, the thread has developed into an insular exchange of ideas that has become uninteresting to me. I tuned out a while ago but check back every now and then to see that it is still largely dominated by some guy apparently from France who dislikes anybody who speaks English, and continually works to disparage 'anglo Canada'. However, nothing holds him back from using English to communicate his disdain to the target audience. It's kind of weird, actually.

No problem, though, as there are plenty of other threads here that I actually find interesting.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Didn’t you know this thread has just turned into 2-3 people mostly projecting the pipe dreams of independence for Québec.

I wish there was more discussion on the language and culture itself. In particular, the different expressions and phrases, as well as the good shows and music that are authentically Québécois.

For example, I’ve been watching 19-2 and holy shit that show is a marvellous police drama. At the same time, I’ve learned an incredible amount of swearing just from the first season and my French listening comprehension has improved dramatically because I watch with French subtitles (has anyone told y’all that spoken french is so damn fast and has crazy conjugation). What other shows, podcast, or movies can y’all recommend me that help me get a more informed glimpse into Québec?

“District 31”. There’s six seasons of it and I’m sure you’ll enjoy it (make sure you have the subtitles).

Also, “Appelle-moi si tu meurs”, with the guy from 19-2 and those McDonald’s ads. I am also sure you’ll enjoy that one. Some really memorable quotes in there.

[big T]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

What other shows, podcast, or movies can y’all recommend me that help me get a more informed glimpse into Québec?

Les Invincibles which Harls suggested is like 20 years old by now, but really solid.
Série Noire by the same creators is imo even better, if you like their humour. Some of the jokes may need a fairly advanced level in French to land properly, but it's probably going to be great even if you miss a few. I'm cracking up rn just thinking of Marc Arcand and La Loi de la Justice

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

You seem to be suggesting that independence for Quebec is a given. I haven't seen anything suggesting that support is even close to making that a reality.

Not necessarily though it does seem like they are getting a bit of a bump at the moment. Canada is not working exceptionally well right now either so this helps the cause a bit too.

Anyway it will always be a topic of discussion regardless if it ever happens or not.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Didn’t you know this thread has just turned into 2-3 people mostly projecting the pipe dreams of independence for Québec.

I wish there was more discussion on the language and culture itself. In particular, the different expressions and phrases, as well as the good shows and music that are authentically Québécois.

For example, I’ve been watching 19-2 and holy shit that show is a marvellous police drama. At the same time, I’ve learned an incredible amount of swearing just from the first season and my French listening comprehension has improved dramatically because I watch with French subtitles (has anyone told y’all that spoken french is so damn fast and has crazy conjugation). What other shows, podcast, or movies can y’all recommend me that help me get a more informed glimpse into Québec?

Mostly agree with the others' suggestions.

I loved Les Invincibles and it's not really dated.

Les Bougons is scathing social commentary. Note there is also a French version adapted from the Québécois one. Actually Les Invincibles was also redone in France. You might run into the Euro-French versions.

More recently and since you are young you might like Fugueuse, about human sex trafficking. It's actually on Netflix now.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Les Bougons is scathing social commentary. Note there is also a French version adapted from the Québécois one. Actually Les Invincibles was also redone in France. You might run into the Euro-French versions.

I still remember this scene from Les Bougon.

https://www.tiktok.com/@cabron_qc/video/7299315170386414853

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not necessarily though it does seem like they are getting a bit of a bump at the moment. Canada is not working exceptionally well right now either so this helps the cause a bit too.

Anyway it will always be a topic of discussion regardless if it ever happens or not.

Latest Leger poll shows no increase of support - stable at 35% versus 56% for the no (9% undecided).

We'll see if PSPP's summer tour moves the needle. By contrast, we'll see if Denis Coderre's summer tour is at all impactful. Polls indicate a bump in support for the PLQ if he becomes leader with the potential to draw away more support from the CAQ.

[Luisito]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

I wish there was more discussion on the language and culture itself. In particular, the different expressions and phrases, as well as the good shows and music that are authentically Québécois.

I agree. Not just Quebec but French Candian culture in general. I don't mind the politics though, there has been some interesting insights on here.

What other shows, podcast, or movies can y’all recommend me that help me get a more informed glimpse into Québec?

• Video Link

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Actually Les Invincibles was also redone in France.

Was boring as hell. Haven't watched the Québec version.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Luisito

I agree. Not just Quebec but French Candian culture in general. I don't mind the politics though, there has been some interesting insights on here.

Split the thread in two, one for culture things, one for politics, if the grumpy forumers can't stand politics.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by harls

I still remember this scene from Les Bougon.

https://www.tiktok.com/@cabron_qc/video/7299315170386414853

People still paying with cash in Québec? Those big stashes of dollar bills seems like such a North American thing... I hardly ever see cash anymore here. Most people pay with a debit card, starting from just a few cents (before, they wouldn't allow debit card payments below 5 euros, then below 1 euro, but now you can pay even just 20 cents with a debit card).

The latest fad is more and more young people now don't even use debit cards anymore, but they pay with their phones (which I find a bit stupid, as you may lose your phone, and then what? plus paying with debit card is faster than paying with phone, but some people like to look "trendy" and up-to-date with the latest technology).

[harls]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

People still paying with cash in Québec? Those big stashes of dollar bills seems like such a North American thing... I hardly ever see cash anymore here. Most people pay with a debit card, starting from just a few cents (before, they wouldn't allow debit card payments below 5 euros, then below 1 euro, but now you can pay even just 20 cents with a debit card).

The latest fad is more and more young people now don't even use debit cards anymore, but they pay with their phones (which I find a bit stupid, as you may lose your phone, and then what? plus paying with debit card is faster than paying with phone, but some people like to look "trendy" and up-to-date with the latest technology).

That clip is about 20 years old.

Not many people pay with cash here anymore.. unless you are little old lady at a grocery store.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by harls

That clip is about 20 years old.

Not many people pay with cash here anymore.. unless you are little old lady at a grocery store.

That's reassuring.

What about "caissiers" (these guys). Do you still have them, or is it automatic now? Here it's 80% automatic I would say. No more grumpy caissiers (they were almost always grumpy here).