[Halifax] Permanent Wanderers Grounds Stadium | ? m | ? fl | Proposed

[terrynorthend]

I'd hoped for more on the south side. IMO the "container village" they've built along here looks cheap and temporary. Unfortunate that it's the visible angle of the site from Public Gardens.

Originally Posted by TheCuriousMind

I really hope this design is suited to add a grandstand on the south side as well if the capacity is needed in the future. It would be a classic Halifax move to build infrastructure sized for current needs and have it be obsolete in 10 years' time.

[lirette]

Originally Posted by Colin May

A few months ago I watched on Eastlink the NS High School Girls soccer final - CP Allen v Halifax West. Top class game with 2 very well coached teams playing a quality of football/soccer not available at any game involving Halifax Wanderers. I can see several of these girls going on to be professionals in Europe ( where the money is and where the fans are). I remind readers that boys as young as 5 are scouted in Europe, start off as affiliated with a professional team and some playing at the highest level at top ranked clubs at the age of 15. European clubs have scouts around the world with a broad network of people looking for talent, and unlike the NHL clubs will have many kids playing just one level below the first team.

What is the point of these posts other than just bringing more unneeded negativity ? The wanderers are getting almost 6000 fans per match and fans continue to come back to the games so they are obviously enjoying themselves. You are like that guy at the concert telling everyone whos enjoying the show that the band actually sucks.

As someone who lives in Moncton and would love to see a team added there I don't hear anyone declaring this is the greatest soccer they've ever seen, but they are enjoying the product and tickets are selling so who cares? I went to a Sporting CP match recently in Lisbon, incredible atmosphere and quality ive play id never expect to see in this league, but I'd still be happy to support this league none the less because it provides an additional entertainment option for a sport that is growing in Canada. I'm sure there's some great play in high school and university soccer locally, but there's more to sport than that. People need a rooting interest. A casual soccer fan has no rooting interest in a CP Allen vs Halifax west game regardless of the quality.

Do you actually think you will suddenly convince someone whos been enjoying the wanderers to just not go?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Yes. It's entertainment after all, and one doesn't expect world-class soccer (football) at one of these events... it's all about the competition between two teams. I mean, sure, if one is a connoisseur of the game you might sit there noticing all the things that aren't happening that do happen at higher levels of the sport, but that's not what you're paying for.

In the end, it comes down to a choice between having professional soccer or not. IMHO, having it is better than not having it, and if people are enthusiastically attending, then it's a success.

[terrynorthend]

Whatever his reasons are Colin has an axe to grind with the Wanderers or CPL in general. I don't understand it, nor do my many friends who've settled here from around the World and enjoy it as a perfectly fine mid-tier product.

I just tune out his ramblings on this subject as I've learned to turn out Keith's "killer stairs/gold plated library" comments.

It's an open forum and everyone's opinions are welcome.

Originally Posted by lirette

What is the point of these posts other than just bringing more unneeded negativity ? The wanderers are getting almost 6000 fans per match and fans continue to come back to the games so they are obviously enjoying themselves. You are like that guy at the concert telling everyone whos enjoying the show that the band actually sucks.

As someone who lives in Moncton and would love to see a team added there I don't hear anyone declaring this is the greatest soccer they've ever seen, but they are enjoying the product and tickets are selling so who cares? I went to a Sporting CP match recently in Lisbon, incredible atmosphere and quality ive play id never expect to see in this league, but I'd still be happy to support this league none the less because it provides an additional entertainment option for a sport that is growing in Canada. I'm sure there's some great play in high school and university soccer locally, but there's more to sport than that. People need a rooting interest. A casual soccer fan has no rooting interest in a CP Allen vs Halifax west game regardless of the quality.

Do you actually think you will suddenly convince someone whos been enjoying the wanderers to just not go?

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Yes. It's entertainment after all, and one doesn't expect world-class soccer (football) at one of these events... it's all about the competition between two teams. I mean, sure, if one is a connoisseur of the game you might sit there noticing all the things that aren't happening that do happen at higher levels of the sport, but that's not what you're paying for.

In the end, it comes down to a choice between having professional soccer or not. IMHO, having it is better than not having it, and if people are enthusiastically attending, then it's a success.

'Mid tier' ....perhaps as it applies to N America. You will see better games watching at no cost if you attend local sports. Does anyone seriously think that HRM is going to spend $40,000,000 on a stadium when we have a housing crisis worse than in WW2 ?
Name one politician who will go public and support the taxpayer spending money on a stadium.
$45 million mortgage at 4.5% over 20 years is an annual cost of $3.4 million.
Put it to a vote at the October municipal election.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Colin May

'Mid tier' ....perhaps as it applies to N America. You will see better games watching at no cost if you attend local sports. Does anyone seriously think that HRM is going to spend $40,000,000 on a stadium when we have a housing crisis worse than in WW2 ?
Name one politician who will go public and support the taxpayer spending money on a stadium.
$45 million mortgage at 4.5% over 20 years is an annual cost of $3.4 million.
Put it to a vote at the October municipal election.

Remember, this is HRM Council we are talking about who built a gold-plated library with Killer Stairs (TM Regd.) - a tip of the hat to terrynorthend - so nothing would surprise me. That bunch lives to spends tax dollars recklessly. Remember, they are rebuilding a smaller and less useful semi-replica of the Forum for, what, $150 million? This one is mere pocket change for that bunch.

[q12]

2016


2023

[q12]

Some of these folks that have been around Halifax too long stuck in the past, complaining about every change, fortunately are now representing the minority of the general public. The older generations in Halifax have been hell bent on holding Halifax and Atlantic Canada back, while Quebec to B.C. moved on an accepted change and new things even if they cost a few dollars.

The Halifax Oval is a great example of the positive change, along with the new outdoor pool, and the current Wanderers grounds.

The irony is that generations that lived in the late 1800's would likely jump with excitement to see what the Wanderers have done with the historic grounds if they were alive today.

Have all the opinions you want but the Wanderers are a success at the Wanderers Grounds and bring on the new stadium!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by q12

Some of these folks that have been around Halifax too long stuck in the past, complaining about every change, fortunately are now representing the minority of the general public. The older generations in Halifax have been hell bent on holding Halifax and Atlantic Canada back, while Quebec to B.C. moved on an accepted change and new things even if they cost a few dollars.

The Halifax Oval is a great example of the positive change, along with the new outdoor pool, and the current Wanderers grounds.

The irony is that generations that lived in the late 1800's would likely jump with excitement to see what the Wanderers have done with the historic grounds if they were alive today.

Have all the opinions you want but the Wanderers are a success at the Wanderers Grounds and bring on the new stadium!

I don’t appreciate your attempt to turn this into a generational issue. Let’s discuss the topic based upon the merits of the stadium and leave the ageism to sites like reddit.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Colin May

'Mid tier' ....perhaps as it applies to N America. You will see better games watching at no cost if you attend local sports. Does anyone seriously think that HRM is going to spend $40,000,000 on a stadium when we have a housing crisis worse than in WW2 ?
Name one politician who will go public and support the taxpayer spending money on a stadium.
$45 million mortgage at 4.5% over 20 years is an annual cost of $3.4 million.
Put it to a vote at the October municipal election.

First of all I have to say I’m not a soccer fan, so this stadium will be of little benefit to me, personally. That said, the Wanderers games have proven to be very popular among many residents of Halifax, proving that there is a market for this level of the game here, no matter how you choose to judge it.

It seems odd to me that people still believe that a housing crisis means that everything else should stop, when the main cause for the crisis is the supply/demand situation brought about by a large and quick increase in our population. This can only be fixed by action, not budget. Speed up the approval process, make adjustments to antiquated zoning laws, etc etc.

Meanwhile, increasing housing values plus increasing population will increase the city’s tax income. More population increases the need for entertainment options, such as those offered by the Wanderers. Not to mention that if the city controls the stadium, they can book other events such as concerts, etc. to get more bang for our buck.

I say it would be money well spent and would bring happiness to many Haligonians. The city is growing, so it’s more than reasonable to expect that we should have nice things while simultaneously working on the problems.

[q12]

I don't use Reddit.

And this has always been a generational issue. How many young people moved west in previous decades frustrated with Halifax as it stagnated and progress moved at a ridiculously slow pace.

It seems those days may finally be behind us thankfully.

What's the old saying "You're only as old as you feel" or "Young at heart". I've been on this forum going on 16 years so I'm likely considered "old" in Halifax now. I guess I've gone and offended myself.

[Keith P.]

I’m older but I support in principle the Wanderers proposal. I would like to see more seating but the surrounding uses seem to preclude that unfortunately. It’s a shame there is little will to change that. I’m not sure we are getting $40 million in value based on what I see but I like the idea in general. I would challenge those in charge to find $10 million from corporate sponsors to reduce the burden on the taxpayer, since we certainly have enough of that already.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

I'd hoped for more on the south side. IMO the "container village" they've built along here looks cheap and temporary. Unfortunate that it's the visible angle of the site from Public Gardens.

I agree. Something like Highbury along that section across from the Public Gardens would be ideal and attractive (I previously lived across the street from here):

Not sure there is even a debate to be had. The Wanderers level is quite decent and will get better as the league grows. The match against TFC had Bradley on the field!!!

I've been to matches at the highest levels in Europe as well as MLS, and while the current stadium leaves much to be desired... there are plenty of lower division clubs in the FA that aren't any more special.

Let's stick to the vision and not let the haters get us down... football is all about community and personal investment. If we get the permanent stadium, I think it could lead to better things. Saying a high school match is better is complete hogwash.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by q12

I don't use Reddit.

Sorry, I just assumed...

Originally Posted by q12

And this has always been a generational issue. How many young people moved west in previous decades frustrated with Halifax as it stagnated and progress moved at a ridiculously slow pace.

I thought they moved there for jobs, not that places like Fort McMurray were better, more exciting places to live than Halifax. The job/economy situation in NS is much more complicated than 'the older generations in Halifax being hell bent on holding Halifax and Atlantic Canada back'... that seems a little ludicrous, TBH.

Originally Posted by q12

It seems those days may finally be behind us thankfully.

Let's hope, I guess, if things were so horrible back then.

Originally Posted by q12

What's the old saying "You're only as old as you feel" or "Young at heart". I've been on this forum going on 16 years so I'm likely considered "old" in Halifax now. I guess I've gone and offended myself.

If I were to be a smart ass, I'd ask you why you didn't fix things, since you're one of the older generation who are responsible for all those dreary, depressing times. Why didn't you work to have a stadium built hosting professional soccer 30 years ago? Luckily, I'm not a smart ass, so I won't say it...

Really, though, I wish it were that simplistic. Surely you must realize that Halifax, like any city, has gone through its ups and downs and has evolved over the decades. It has grown quite a lot in recent years (as you know, since you are always posting the latest population increases), and when a city grows it can support more entertainment options. It's starting to happen now, and will continue organically, but not because the older generations intentionally held it back, but because the city is now large enough to support it.

You must remember the days of the Nova Scotia Voyageurs, the AHL farm team for the Montreal Canadians, playing in Halifax. People wanted to bring an NHL team to the city, but the population wasn't large enough to support it. Eventually, the Vees moved on and we got the Halifax Citadels... and then junior hockey instead... no NHL team. I like watching the kids play, but the AHL was better hockey to watch back then, and at least you got to see some NHL players every now and then when they were sent to the farm team when they were recovering from injuries, etc. Maybe as the city grows we can entertain the idea of an NHL team... again... now that those old guys (who wanted to have one all those years ago) are now the minority, and the new, younger aggressive folks can get things done and won't try to hold the city back.

Moreover, IMHO it's inaccurate to suggest that nothing happened here until the 2020s. If 'that generation' didn't do anything cool in the city, then please explain how the Moosehead Grand Prix happened on the streets of the downtown (and please convince somebody to bring it back). And while you're at it, the Hydroplane racing on the harbour was a cool event. I'd like to see that happen again too. The Shearwater International Air Show was a great event to attend as well, with an excellent static display (not possible since the early 2000s when runway closures prevented access for fixed wing aircraft) as well as the air display. Must have been those old guys trying to suppress more fun here, eh?

And the concerts on the hill, the Spring Garden Road street party, when they shut down the entire street and had concerts and such. Natal Day had much more going on back then as well... if anything, it seems to me that there aren't as many interesting things happening now as there was just 30 or 40 years ago.

Really, though, this is kinda silly. I was only wanting to help steer the discussion away from the typical generational blame game, and discuss the stadium idea solely upon its merits. Old history is really irrelevant in this case, as it has nothing to do with what happens with this stadium. Since this is a discussion forum, I vote that we let people have their say, even if we don't agree with their opinions, and just enjoy the discussion (which will have no tangible effect on the outcome of the stadium, BTW...). Insults or assigning blame are not required to have a good discussion.

...But it's just my suggestion as I have no power here, other than expressing my opinion. Do as you will.

[q12]

The Halifax Voyageurs were mostly before my time as a later Generation X. I fall in the population dip between the Baby Boomers and Millennials. The dip is there because our generation was significantly smaller in total population compared to post war baby boomers. Also many in that generation had to leave Halifax to find work as the Baby boomers had most of the jobs.

The Halifax Voyageurs attendance at the Metro Centre never averaged over 5,000. The Nova Scotia Oilers and Halifax Citadels also never averaged over 5,000.

We have the Halifax Mooseheads and Halifax Thunderbirds to thank for finally packing the Metro Centre on a regular basis. The Mooseheads quickly began averaging over 5,000 in only the first 3 years of existence. Best Hockey we ever saw in Halifax was Nathan Mackinnon's President cup winning year.

The Halifax Mooseheads and Halifax Thunderbirds now both average over 8,000 at the Scotiabank Centre.

This weekend thanks to the Moose and Tbirds Scotiabank Centre will see a local sports Attendance at SBC of approx. 27,000!

Mooseheads vs Islanders Friday Night Attendance was 9590.
Halifax Thunderbirds vs Rochester Saturday Night is likely near 8,000 based on ticket sales.
Mooseheads vs Cape Breton is likely +9,000 based on ticket sales.

And now we have The Halifax Wanderers to thank for packing a previously neglected Wanderers grounds. They had an average attendance this year of 5,854 in a temporary bleacher stadium.

[q12]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

If I were to be a smart ass, I'd ask you why you didn't fix things, since you're one of the older generation who are responsible for all those dreary, depressing times. Why didn't you work to have a stadium built hosting professional soccer 30 years ago? Luckily, I'm not a smart ass, so I won't say it...

Not that old, but how about 15 years ago.

worldlyhaligonian and I were here (among many others on here) pushing for a stadium 15 years ago when the Halifax Stadium Discussion thread was started by the late great fenwick16.

That thread has had 1,871,072 views...

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174940

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by q12

The Halifax Voyageurs were mostly before my time as a later Generation X. I fall in the population dip between the Baby Boomers and Millennials. The dip is there because our generation was significantly smaller in total population compared to post war baby boomers. Also many in that generation had to leave Halifax to find work as the Baby boomers had most of the jobs.

The Halifax Voyageurs attendance at the Metro Centre never averaged over 5,000. The Nova Scotia Oilers and Halifax Citadels also never averaged over 5,000.

We have the Halifax Mooseheads and Halifax Thunderbirds to thank for finally packing the Metro Centre on a regular basis. The Mooseheads quickly began averaging over 5,000 in only the first 3 years of existence. Best Hockey we ever saw in Halifax was Nathan Mackinnon's President cup winning year.

The Halifax Mooseheads and Halifax Thunderbirds now both average over 8,000 at the Scotiabank Centre.

This weekend thanks to the Moose and Tbirds Scotiabank Centre will see a local sports Attendance at SBC of approx. 27,000!

Mooseheads vs Islanders Friday Night Attendance was 9590.
Halifax Thunderbirds vs Rochester Saturday Night is likely near 8,000 based on ticket sales.
Mooseheads vs Cape Breton is likely +9,000 based on ticket sales.

And now we have The Halifax Wanderers to thank for packing a previously neglected Wanderers grounds. They had an average attendance this year of 5,854 in a temporary bleacher stadium.

I’m in the 50’s group. The 90’s were horrible for 20-somethings and everyone did seem to move away to Toronto or Vancouver. Not Alberta….those were people who are now in their 40’s.

In the 90’s,…decisions were probably not made with the younger generations in mind. I’m really happy that things are changing,…my oldest is actually saying that he may stick around.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by q12

The Halifax Voyageurs were mostly before my time as a later Generation X. I fall in the population dip between the Baby Boomers and Millennials. The dip is there because our generation was significantly smaller in total population compared to post war baby boomers. Also many in that generation had to leave Halifax to find work as the Baby boomers had most of the jobs.

The Halifax Voyageurs attendance at the Metro Centre never averaged over 5,000. The Nova Scotia Oilers and Halifax Citadels also never averaged over 5,000.

We have the Halifax Mooseheads and Halifax Thunderbirds to thank for finally packing the Metro Centre on a regular basis. The Mooseheads quickly began averaging over 5,000 in only the first 3 years of existence. Best Hockey we ever saw in Halifax was Nathan Mackinnon's President cup winning year.

The Halifax Mooseheads and Halifax Thunderbirds now both average over 8,000 at the Scotiabank Centre.

This weekend thanks to the Moose and Tbirds Scotiabank Centre will see a local sports Attendance at SBC of approx. 27,000!

Mooseheads vs Islanders Friday Night Attendance was 9590.
Halifax Thunderbirds vs Rochester Saturday Night is likely near 8,000 based on ticket sales.
Mooseheads vs Cape Breton is likely +9,000 based on ticket sales.

And now we have The Halifax Wanderers to thank for packing a previously neglected Wanderers grounds. They had an average attendance this year of 5,854 in a temporary bleacher stadium.

To me it feels strange the way you are framing this, like 'look how crappy things were then and how great they are now... and I have data'. I am totally alright with just agreeing to disagree with you on this. It seems weird, though, that you are criticizing a time that you didn't experience, but it is totally in keeping with today's popularity of revisionist history... so, totally understandable.

I'm not really sure why you are comparing today's sports attendance to that of 30 or 40 years ago, when the population was only like one half to two thirds of what it is today. Doesn't matter, though. I'm glad that sports is being attended so well now. And I hope that the Wanderers get their stadium.

The idea that jobs were scarce because boomers took all of them also seems bizarre to me, but again I understand it's in keeping with the narrative under which you are operating.

All good... agree to disagree and life goes on.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by q12

Not that old, but how about 15 years ago.

worldlyhaligonian and I were here (among many others on here) pushing for a stadium 15 years ago when the Halifax Stadium Discussion thread was started by the late great fenwick16.

That thread has had 1,871,072 views...

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174940

I also participated in that thread, and was in favour of the stadium as long as the business plan was solid. Too bad it didn't happen as I was hoping for a waterfront stadium in Shannon Park...

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by q12

The Halifax Voyageurs attendance at the Metro Centre never averaged over 5,000. The Nova Scotia Oilers and Halifax Citadels also never averaged over 5,000.

It's worth remembering that that era was the heyday of college hoops here too. Regular-season games and Atlantic championships regularly filled 6000-7000 seats at the Metro Centre, with the occasional sellout (and had also frequently sold out the Forum before '78). And the national championship tournament, held in Halifax for several seasons, was often sold out.