General Infrastructure Discussion

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by chowhou

our primary electricity import source is Washington where one sixth of their electricity is still produced by burning fossil fuels.

who cares.

we offset it by being over 98% green power. so 16% of their power is fossil fuels. big deal. *yawn*

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Well BCH used to be a net exporter up until about 5 years ago, now we are a net importer. That's a pretty significant change, and we don't have unlimited interconnects with neighboring utilities and we shouldn't assume they have unlimited cheap power to supply us either.

We haven't really had any new capacity come online in the last 7 or so years. Not since Site C was really underway and the last IPP projects completed construction.

I suspect there's going to be a fairly large call for power in the near future, which is an exciting prospect.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Given that our “clean hydro power” is frequently used a reason to invest in B.C. or to encourage quick adoption of EVs I bet it comes as a shock to many British Columbians that one fifth of our power was purchased from outside the province, possibly from carbon intensive production.

Not likely. Most comes from baseload nuclear in WA state IIRC.

[WarrenC12]

This is a great blog post illustrating the recent power imbalance. I thought it had be happening longer but this is all more recent. Site C can't come online soon enough, but we'll need a lot more beyond that.

https://wernerantweiler.ca/blog.php?item=2023-12-21

[MIPS]

That blast of -30 we got here really got me wondering about just how practical a heat pump is. I'm sure down on the coast where "very cold" is -10 it's still within the specifications of the latest models (the latest models do somewhat distortedly tout how they will continue to work at 0 (Fahrenheit, mind you) but you go past -25 (-13F) and go up 1000 feet in altitude their ability to do much beyond waste electricity becomes apparent. From what I'm hearing up in Prince George (they saw -40 and below) if you didn't by a hybrid gas + heat pump HVAC on the energy grant (they're the top-end. I think Lennox has one starting at $11K) and were running a straight heat-pump, last weekend was very cold and very expensive for you. They're suitable for the lower mainland but the grant applied anywhere, so there's a lot fewer users of gas-only furnaces but now considerably more inefficient heat pumps when demand is peaking on the coldest days of the year.

I do also find the incredible irony that was the pushback on Site C being an enormous waste of time, money and resources for additional electricity generation we would never need. I have not heard a single person complain about it since the end of the 2010's.

Edited: Actually since a gaseous (that is not a geothermal) heat pump is essentially an air conditioner flipped around it's funny that it still has the same problem with reduced efficiency that was brought on by the banning of ozone-depleting refrigerants in the 90's and 2000's like R-12 or R-22 and the newer gases having a lower (closer to 0c) boiling point compared to the older refrigerants. In theory one of the early heat pumps from the 60's and 70's outperforms modern units in terms of their efficient ambient temperature range (I doubt any of these are still running) but until we find a more suitable replacement for modern refrigerants (R-12A, R-134A and other blends are close but they are mostly propane and butane blends so while they don't generate phosgene like the old gases they are incredibly explosive) they just don't work well in rural cold climates.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

This is a great blog post illustrating the recent power imbalance. I thought it had be happening longer but this is all more recent. Site C can't come online soon enough, but we'll need a lot more beyond that.

https://wernerantweiler.ca/blog.php?item=2023-12-21

Excellent post, thanks for sharing!

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by MIPS

I do also find the incredible irony that was the pushback on Site C being an enormous waste of time, money and resources for additional electricity generation we would never need. I have not heard a single person complain about it since the end of the 2010's.

Remember when nobody was going to ride the Canada Line and we'd be paying it off for the next two generations? The Canadian public (and many of its leaders) don't appear to be good at long-term thinking.

That said, I highly doubt we're going to get Site E within our lifetimes, there's only so many offshore wind and geothermal sites in BC, and the environmentalists hate nukes.

[chowhou]

Didn't Site C end up having extremely significant geotechnical issues and the cost overruns are insane? I've never been particularly anti Site C but it's not all sunshine and rainbows up there.

To be honest, I don't really understand why you'd want to be heating the outdoors so badly when you live in the interior/up north by living in a detached home. I'm surprised people don't huddle together more like they do in Whittier, Alaska.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begich_Towers

[Migrant_Coconut]

Gonna risk a detour and point out that shared housing is "communism" and inefficiency is "rugged individualism." Without the US Army, those apartments probably wouldn't be there.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

.

[SpongeG]

Alberta has issued a few power alerts, a fourth one on Monday morning due to power useage.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-electrical-grid-emergency-decarbonization-1.7083664

Dawson Creek has a wind farm, I think there is another one near Tumblef Ridge, are there more in BC?


supplypost.com

[madog222]

There's a small one along the Okanogan Connector.

[chowhou]

Possibly incomplete but:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generating_stations_in_British_Columbia#Wind

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Alberta has issued a few power alerts, a fourth one on Monday morning due to power useage.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-electrical-grid-emergency-decarbonization-1.7083664

Dawson Creek has a wind farm, I think there is another one near Tumblef Ridge, are there more in BC?


supplypost.com

There's a few others. Dokie Ridge near Chetwynd, Scott Wind on Vancouver Island, one near the 97C west of Kelowna. They're scattered about.

[madog222]

Coincidental timing of this announcement couldn't have worked out better.

Eby announces $36-billion plan to expand B.C.’s electricity system

B.C. Premier David Eby has announced a push to expand the province’s electricity system that could see billions in extra spending on infrastructure projects.

Eby made the announcement at the B.C. Natural Resources Forum in Prince George.

The 10-year capital plan for Crown utility BC Hydro has been updated to include almost $36-billion in spending on community and regional infrastructure projects in the province between 2024-25 and 2033-34.

The government says that figure represents an increase of 50 per cent over BC Hydro’s last 10-year capital plan, and includes nearly $10-billion for projects involving electrification and emissions reduction.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/b...n-plan-to-expand-bcs-electricity-system/

[madog222]

Here is the capitol plan from BC Hydro.

https://www.bchydro.com/content/dam/BCHy...orate/capital-plan/capital-plan-2024.pdf

Projects of note for Metro Vancouver include an expanded 230kV Metro South Transmission line from Ingledow substation in Surrey to Burnaby / South Vancouver plus the following new or upgraded substations.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by madog222

Coincidental timing of this announcement couldn't have worked out better.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/b...n-plan-to-expand-bcs-electricity-system/

i find it funny these are the people that wanted to kill Site C, but couldnt because it was too far along.

i am glad the liberals got it to the point of no return. clearly it was the right decision.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i find it funny these are the people that wanted to kill Site C, but couldnt because it was too far along.

i am glad the liberals got it to the point of no return. clearly it was the right decision.

I don't think there was any chance of it being killed. With the push for EV's and banning natural gas for heating, that is only going to drive electricity demand upwards.

Now the smart thing would be requiring all buildings to have south-facing solar panels and connect that to emergency power systems in the building. Protect the building's plumbing, common lighting and a large room that can be heated independently in the event of building heating failure/power failure.

There's also plenty of other spaces in Metro Vancouver that could be equipped with solar panels and be emergency warming stations, like the Skytrain stations have enough area for panels, they just need something like a large Tim Hortons or an A&W in the Skytrain ROW footprint for people to sit in to stay warm.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Given how the Lower Mainland only sees the sun for roughly five months a year, microgeneration probably isn't the answer either.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Given how the Lower Mainland only sees the sun for roughly five months a year, microgeneration probably isn't the answer either.

The best case for solar is probably the interior. They get a lot of sun and have cheaper land.